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Thread: Asked to leave Red Cliffs Mall

  1. #1
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    Asked to leave Red Cliffs Mall

    Today, during one of about 4 times a year that I go to the Mall and OC every time, I was asked to leave the Mall.


    All day every day I carry my G 23 with a Streamlight Flashlight attached to the rail, riding in my Fobus holster, so carrying it is absolutely nothing new especially while at the Mall. After walking around shopping in the Mall for about an hour and a half and passing the only on-duty security officer at least three times and making eye contact with him once, I left for about half an hour to run a friend to a bank to pick up some more cash. On this particular day I was wearing blue jeans, running shoes, and a plain black polo shirt - so it wasn't as if I looked like an deviant young man just carrying a weapon, and I certainly didn't handle myself in any sort of manner suggesting anything like deviance. My friend and I returned and went to a shoe store, and were not there for 30 seconds before the security officer approached me from behind and the short interaction went like this:


    Guard: Hey, I'm going to have to ask you to leave the Mall.
    Me: Really? Why? (I knew why, but asked anyway)
    Guard: Because there are no firearms allowed here.
    Me: I'm sorry, has that always been a rule here?
    Guard: Yes it always has been.
    Me: I never knew that. Is it posted anywhere?
    Guard: It should be. You still need to leave though, because I'm asking you now.
    Me: I'm really sorry about that, I didn't ever notice it or else I wouldn't have carried here.


    From there, I left the store and walked back toward the entrance of the Mall where I had entered while he followed about 20 feet behind me. I stopped for a moment to look around the entrance to see if there were any rules posted, and I found a small piece of paper attached to the wall about 5 feet to the left of the entrance and not easily visible, as I had to go out of my way to find it. It stated on the top: "Code of Conduct" and the very last item was "No firearms or other dangerous weapons."

    Okay, I was in the wrong and I sincerely accept it. Issues of the part of Red Cliffs Mall:

    1. Not posting their Code of Conduct in a conspicuous place.

    2. Not specifying open or concealed carry or whether it is done lawfully.

    3. Several failures on the security guard's part in noticing that I was carrying.

    4. Not issuing their security guards any weapons, which opens up the Mall as a potential security threat.

    5. Their security guard not asking me if I was a professional of any kind (Personal Security Specialist, Law Enforcement Officer, etc..)



    Right now I'm trying to find out who the Red Cliffs Mall contracts their security to so I can write them a letter about this and how I believe they could use improvement. I believe the company's name is Alliance Security. I believe they should arm their guards and train them better for starters. I will post the letter on here as soon as I finish drafting it.
    Last edited by sg_pilot; 11-05-2010 at 09:53 PM.

  2. #2
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    It seems that these kinds of policies are all too common at malls. I suspect that most malls are owned by non-Utah interests.

    In addition to contacting the mall, you might also contact the individual owners of the various stores and shops within the mall that you patronize. They are far more likely to be locals who are more accepting of local culture than some large, faceless corporation located who knows where.

    In both cases, you are likely to win some points by making clear that you recognize their legal right to limit firearms on their property if they so choose. Then go on to attempt to persuade them that they should not be banning firearms even though they have the legal right to do so.

    As a last resort, encouraging more visible signage will at least result in more consistent adherence to and enforcement of their policy. And if they are gong to ban law abiding citizens from carrying guns, they really should beef up their security. It isn't like St. George is immune to gang and other criminal activity.

    At the end of the day, I do my best not to patronize locations where my gun is not welcome. If I do patronize, I legally conceal and then their policy never comes up. It has no legal weight in Utah other than giving them a non-discriminatory excuse to ask someone to leave, and failure to abide that request could result in a trespassing charge.

    But when possible, take your business elsewhere and if you can find or make the opportunity, let the owners of those stores know why they have your business (not banning your gun) rather than you going to the mall that does ban guns.

    Charles

  3. #3
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sg_pilot View Post
    ...

    I stopped for a moment to look around the entrance to see if there were any rules posted, and I found a small piece of paper attached to the wall about 5 feet to the left of the entrance and not easily visible, as I had to go out of my way to find it. It stated on the top: "Code of Conduct" and the very last item was "No firearms or other dangerous weapons."

    Okay, I was in the wrong and I sincerely accept it. Issues of the part of Red Cliffs Mall:

    1. Not posting their Code of Conduct in a conspicuous place.

    2. Not specifying open or concealed carry or whether it is done lawfully.

    3. Several failures on the security guard's part in noticing that I was carrying.

    4. Not issuing their security guards any weapons, which opens up the Mall as a potential security threat.

    5. Their security guard not asking me if I was a professional of any kind (Personal Security Specialist, Law Enforcement Officer, etc..)



    Right now I'm trying to find out who the Red Cliffs Mall contracts their security to so I can write them a letter about this and how I believe they could use improvement. I believe the company's name is Alliance Security. I believe they should arm their guards and train them better for starters. I will post the letter on here as soon as I finish drafting it.
    Very good description of the incident and pretty good analysis. I can see how your issues Nos. 1, 2, 3 and 5 are notable, though No. 3 is kinda weak. Issue No. 4 seems irrelevant to your incident. It's a stretch to include it, IMHO.

    Interesting is that you can admit that you were "in the wrong" too. That's exceptional, SGP. Most people cannot do that.

    I hope you let the mall management company/owner how you feel.
    Last edited by HankT; 11-11-2010 at 12:03 AM.

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