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Travelling by vehicle while OCing...

hightecrebel

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Oct 25, 2008
Messages
75
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Tinker AFB, ,
It looks like I might actually have a pistol when I'm home, so I can OC. I realized, however, that I never did understand how to comply with the 'no loaded firearms in a vehicle', and I never ended up in a car or truck during my limited excursions before. Always too worried I'd end up unknowingly in a school zone or something to carry much. My question for those of you on here who OC without a CFP is this: what do you do to comply with the law? I managed to confuse myself while reading into it and I'm not sure if just removing the magazine is enough or if I need to put it in a case.
 

boyscout399

Regular Member
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
905
Location
Lyman, Maine
It looks like I might actually have a pistol when I'm home, so I can OC. I realized, however, that I never did understand how to comply with the 'no loaded firearms in a vehicle', and I never ended up in a car or truck during my limited excursions before. Always too worried I'd end up unknowingly in a school zone or something to carry much. My question for those of you on here who OC without a CFP is this: what do you do to comply with the law? I managed to confuse myself while reading into it and I'm not sure if just removing the magazine is enough or if I need to put it in a case.

Putting it in a case would actually violate the law as it would be concealed. It has to be visible and unloaded (no loaded mag in the gun, no round in the chamber). You can have a loaded mag next to the gun, but not inserted into it. I used to drop mag, slide lock the gun and throw it on the passenger seat. Alternatively, I would carry unchambered and when I got in the car, just drop the mag, when I got out of the car, pop the mag back in, but left it in my serpa holster on my belt. This gets tricky though because if the firearm becomes fully concealed by your seatbelt buckle or anything, then you could be nabbed for concealing. If you want to be on the safe side, slide lock and throw it on the passenger seat.

I've been working with my legislator on getting this stupid law changed because it can cause quite a scene. Getting out of your car at a gas station, grabbing an unloaded weapon and popping in a mag and racking the slide outside your car before going inside in order to comply with this law makes for a potentially dangerous situation.
 
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hightecrebel

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
75
Location
Tinker AFB, ,
Putting it in a case would actually violate the law as it would be concealed. It has to be visible and unloaded (no loaded mag in the gun, no round in the chamber). You can have a loaded mag next to the gun, but not inserted into it. I used to drop mag, slide lock the gun and throw it on the passenger seat. Alternatively, I would carry unchambered and when I got in the car, just drop the mag, when I got out of the car, pop the mag back in, but left it in my serpa holster on my belt. This gets tricky though because if the firearm becomes fully concealed by your seatbelt buckle or anything, then you could be nabbed for concealing. If you want to be on the safe side, slide lock and throw it on the passenger seat.

I've been working with my legislator on getting this stupid law changed because it can cause quite a scene. Getting out of your car at a gas station, grabbing an unloaded weapon and popping in a mag and racking the slide outside your car before going inside in order to comply with this law makes for a potentially dangerous situation.

I was thinking as in put it in a locked case for transporting it, but that makes much more sense. Just need to find a somewhere to toss it since I'll be the one in the passenger seat. maybe bring my afghani shoulder harness with me and wear it over my jacket...

And I'll definately be contacting the wonderful local legislators from my home town to voice my opinion on the law. now I just need to do some reading up on it so I don't sound like a moron.
 
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boyscout399

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May 23, 2008
Messages
905
Location
Lyman, Maine
I was thinking as in put it in a locked case for transporting it, but that makes much more sense. Just need to find a somewhere to toss it since I'll be the one in the passenger seat. maybe bring my afghani shoulder harness with me and wear it over my jacket...

And I'll definately be contacting the wonderful local legislators from my home town to voice my opinion on the law. now I just need to do some reading up on it so I don't sound like a moron.

Title 12 Sec 11212 is the law pertaining to firearms in a vehicle. Title 25 Sec 2001-A is the law pertaining to concealing.
 

Jeff_JMB

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Jul 19, 2009
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, ,
Putting it in a case would actually violate the law as it would be concealed... I used to drop mag, slide lock the gun and throw it on the passenger seat... If you want to be on the safe side, slide lock and throw it on the passenger seat... Getting out of your car at a gas station, grabbing an unloaded weapon and popping in a mag and racking the slide outside your car before going inside in order to comply with this law makes for a potentially dangerous situation.

I have a hard time believing that a handgun can't be carried in a case or range bag without violating the law. Driving around with an uncased firearm on the seat to have it roll around the passenger compartment or bounce off the dash and on the floorboard every time you hit the brakes is not a good idea.

With all the dopers robbing convenience stores and pharmacies lately, if I see someone get out of a car with a gun in hand then load and make ready in the middle of the parking lot, I'm probably going to switch to orange prepared for red/black. If I were watching this scenario on the security cameras at a business chances are that it wouldn't be a good situation at all.
 

boyscout399

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Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
905
Location
Lyman, Maine
I have a hard time believing that a handgun can't be carried in a case or range bag without violating the law. Driving around with an uncased firearm on the seat to have it roll around the passenger compartment or bounce off the dash and on the floorboard every time you hit the brakes is not a good idea.

With all the dopers robbing convenience stores and pharmacies lately, if I see someone get out of a car with a gun in hand then load and make ready in the middle of the parking lot, I'm probably going to switch to orange prepared for red/black. If I were watching this scenario on the security cameras at a business chances are that it wouldn't be a good situation at all.

That's why we're working on changing the law. It's really stupid. But Title 25 Sec 2001-A says any firearm concealed about the person's person is criminal. There's an exception for someone engaged in hunting activities. There's an exception for CCW permit holders. But there's NOT an exception for someone headed to the range, or someone carrying for self defense. If the firearm is encased but inaccessible to the passenger compartment, then it is not "about the person's person" and you'd be in the clear, but you'd have to break the law at some point in order to put it in the case in the trunk...
 
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Maine CWP Training

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Joined
Jul 12, 2010
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463
Location
Harrison
Firearms may be transported in a motor vehicle without a concealed firearms permit provided they are (1) unloaded and in plain view, or (2) are unloaded and placed in a remote secure area (such as a locked trunk) away from the control of the occupants of the motor vehicle.

SOURCE
 

boyscout399

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Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
905
Location
Lyman, Maine

Unfortunately that's not what the statute says, this is essentially an opinion of the IFW dept. How does one legally get the firearm into the container without at some point breaking the law regarding having a concealed weapon about your person? I suppose tossing the weapon from 10 feet away into the container in your trunk would conceal it without it at any time being concealed about your person...
 

Maine CWP Training

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Jul 12, 2010
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463
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Harrison
Same has been advised from MSP and I all have advised all clients of the same for over 2 decades.

Never heard and argument to the contrary from any LEO, even those that critique our courses.
 

boyscout399

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May 23, 2008
Messages
905
Location
Lyman, Maine
Same has been advised from MSP and I all have advised all clients of the same for over 2 decades.

Never heard and argument to the contrary from any LEO, even those that critique our courses.

Yes, it is legal to have the firearm in a locked case inaccessible from the driver. My question is: How do you get it there without breaking Title 25 Sec 2001-A? There is no exception to THAT law to put the firearm in your car... You DO violate that law for a short period of time while the firearm is encased, and still about your person... I'm not saying that a cop wouldn't let you go for it when seeing the circumstances, but you DO violate that statute at some point, there is no way to avoid it... And an overzealous prosecutor could easily make that argument and likely convince a jury that the statute WAS violated.
 
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Maine CWP Training

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Jul 12, 2010
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463
Location
Harrison
B. Wear under the person's clothes or conceal about the person's person a firearm, slungshot, knuckles, bowie knife, dirk, stiletto or other dangerous or deadly weapon usually employed in the attack on or defense of a person.

This portion?
 

Maine CWP Training

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2010
Messages
463
Location
Harrison
(2) are unloaded and placed in a remote secure area (such as a locked trunk) away from the control of the occupants of the motor vehicle.

If a locked trunk isn't available a gun vault / cable lock / trigger lock satisfies all LEOs I've spoke with if you don't want to keep it open...

Wear under the person's clothes or conceal about the person's person a firearm
is called an "oh **** moment" when stopping someone for an infraction and the firearm is subsequently discovered.
 

boyscout399

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May 23, 2008
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905
Location
Lyman, Maine
If a locked trunk isn't available a gun vault / cable lock / trigger lock satisfies all LEOs I've spoke with if you don't want to keep it open...

is called an "oh **** moment" when stopping someone for an infraction and the firearm is subsequently discovered.

It doesn't matter if it "satisfies all LEO's you've spoken with."

It violates State law. Just because LEO's that you've spoken to have chosen to not enforce that law doesn't mean that it doesn't have the potential to get you into trouble some day. Even locked in your trunk you have to violate State law at some point in the process of putting it into your trunk.
 

boyscout399

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May 23, 2008
Messages
905
Location
Lyman, Maine
I'll hang my hat on this and always have~

This was not my question. You are ignoring my question. I realize that it's legal to have the gun separated from you. My question is How do you get it there without breaking the statute? I realize it's legal once it's there, but it's impossible to get it to that condition without breaking the law to get it there.
 

boyscout399

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May 23, 2008
Messages
905
Location
Lyman, Maine
Firearm Laws and Regulations, Summary

Those are the State of Maine's words from their web site not mine. Argue with them and let me know what their response is.

I can read. Those regs say NOTHING about how you can get the firearm from the legal open carry into the legal concealed in trunk inaccessible to the passengers without passing through a period of illegality in which you have a concealed firearm that is accessible to you.

You are again not addressing the issue that I'm raising... I fully understand that it is legal to have it in a locked container in the trunk... What is unclear is how do you get it locked in the trunk without breaking the law to get it there?
 

boyscout399

Regular Member
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
905
Location
Lyman, Maine
They have this same conundrum in Wisconsin right now...

In Wisconsin there is a law that says you cannot have a firearm concealed within reach.

There is also a law that says a firearm must be in a locked container out of reach of the occupants when transported in a vehicle.

It is impossible to get the firearm from the legal unconcealed position to the legal concealed and out of reach position without temporarily passing through the illegal concealed and within reach position...

You must break the law to follow the law.

Here's a video illustrating the conundrum This same conundrum exists in Maine State Law unless you carry the firearm openly visible in the vehicle.
 
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ep0k

Regular Member
Joined
May 21, 2010
Messages
273
Location
Wiscasset, Maine, USA
Legal solution: Possess a CFP (unacceptable from an ideological standpoint because it is basically a tax on a natural right)

Common-sense solution (for an LEO): don't detain/arrest/prosecute an individual for moving a gun from holster to containment simply because they have technically violated a law while attempting to comply with two or more other laws.

Common-sense solution for the individual: Move the gun from holster to container where you won't be observed. Normally not a problem, but there is always the possibility for unexpected surreptitious observation.

Real-world implications: Somewhere, there is an LEO who will arrest you for this. Its a real, legitimate, legal problem. Every cop I know understands that you are technically breaking the law when (without a Maine or reciprocal out of state CWP) you put a gun into a container, and every cop I know wouldn't think about actually pursuing this. It doesn't mean there isn't someone in their department who wouldn't run with it for whatever reason.

My thinking (personal opinion) is that if someone actually tried to arrest you and press charges for this, they would be laughed out of the courtroom, and if they weren't, you could probably push it at least as far as the state supreme court and secure some form of minor victory for carry rights on state constitutional grounds.

Of course in the meantime you would be out on bail conditions, stripped of your 2A rights, and suffer all the other consequences of trying to live a normal life with criminal charges pending. No one wants to be that guy because, hey, it ******* sucks.
 
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