-
We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
-
If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
-
Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.
CiCi's Incident following Gander Mountain Seminar 11/6
- Thread starter malignity
- Start date
malignity
Regular Member
How private is it?
Lets do an analysis:
In my home, I can ban blue shoes, Islam, and freckled people.
If I own a McDonald's, I cannot.
In my own home, I can ban the use of the word 'it', berqas, and foreign cars parked in my driveway.
If I own a McDonald's, I cannot.
Not so 'private' property after all, is it? Once you throw corporate policies in the mix, you have even more mumbo jumbo you must follow or cease to exist, such as following federal, state and local law. By putting a 'no firearms' sign up, that means you are not following corporate policy, therefore you must remove the sign or cease to continue being part of the corporation.
The bottom line is this: there are certain things you CANNOT ban if open to the public. A firearm is no different than blue shoes, or a berqa. It is a tool for self defense, and is NOT TO BE INFRINGED, according to the second amendment to the US Constitution. If my freedom of speech and expression is not allowed to be infringed upon if I wear my blue shoes, neither should my gun allow me to be infringed upon. If you can ban one, you should be able to ban them all. If you can ban none, then none it should be. This 'you can ban this but not that' is proof of a broken system.
Bailenforcer
Regular Member
Good points! May I add a few things...
Fact is we the people have been duped (well some of us) into believing a piece of paper (corporation) is human and should have human rights. When one quits acting like a Parrot and actually analyzes this we come to a completely different conclusion. A corporation is owned by interested and disinterested parties. We as a people forgot the intent of the founders of the Constitution, it was designed to protect us from what went on in Europe where the people were not only manipulated by the royals families, but also by the Mega Church of Rome. Have we forgotten about The Inquisitions Where the super state church slaughter millions and grab land at the Queens behest. Many here would probably soil themselves if they knew the real story about the BP Gulf oil disaster where the Roman Catholic church was involved as a 1/3 owner of that well. I bet FOX (EWTN-2) didn't tell you this. Many Corporations operating in this country are owned by entities outside of this country, This includes the Roman Catholic Church, China and many nations and groups who hate our rights.
Fact is a corporation has NO property rights because there is NO property owner, only investors. There is only a provision for a property "owner" constitutionally.
I know I will like once before, get the childish analogies like Some religious group crowing a store and interfering with business, a total red hearing argument. There are laws the prevent people from interfering with commerce, so let's not have someone throw that argument out there and ruin his/her credibility.
Those who are bent of protecting Corporations at the expense of our rights are unknowingly traitors, yes I said it. When one betrays the founding principles of what this country was founded on, then he/she is being a traitor. Now I got all the Liberals pretending to care about our rights, on this site upset. Frankly it's about time we grow up and be men. Millions died to protect what the Founding Fathers gave us and some even on this site I watch with regularity try to whittle away those rights.
Property rights in the Constitution were enumerated to Persons who were Natural born, not to fictional creatures like a corporation. WE need to finally get it right.
With Government selling off our infrastructure to foreigners we are loosing this nation and soon will be subject to their whims. The roads you drive on may already be sold to Spain who's history with oppressing rights is well known, not to mention the inquisition.....
What happens when we are told we can no longer carry on the property of Corporations?
This would include all roads and all property outside of your own, and guess what, if you do not have a deed and I do NOT man quit claim which is NOT a deed, then you are not the owner of your own property. You are listed as a tenant on your deed and or Mortgage. Yes look it up no where are you the owner.
Can you people now see the implications?
And don't tell me it won't or can't happen as you all said that about a firearms ban in the 1970's and Bill Klinton did just that.
Fact is we the people have been duped (well some of us) into believing a piece of paper (corporation) is human and should have human rights. When one quits acting like a Parrot and actually analyzes this we come to a completely different conclusion. A corporation is owned by interested and disinterested parties. We as a people forgot the intent of the founders of the Constitution, it was designed to protect us from what went on in Europe where the people were not only manipulated by the royals families, but also by the Mega Church of Rome. Have we forgotten about The Inquisitions Where the super state church slaughter millions and grab land at the Queens behest. Many here would probably soil themselves if they knew the real story about the BP Gulf oil disaster where the Roman Catholic church was involved as a 1/3 owner of that well. I bet FOX (EWTN-2) didn't tell you this. Many Corporations operating in this country are owned by entities outside of this country, This includes the Roman Catholic Church, China and many nations and groups who hate our rights.
Fact is a corporation has NO property rights because there is NO property owner, only investors. There is only a provision for a property "owner" constitutionally.
I know I will like once before, get the childish analogies like Some religious group crowing a store and interfering with business, a total red hearing argument. There are laws the prevent people from interfering with commerce, so let's not have someone throw that argument out there and ruin his/her credibility.
Those who are bent of protecting Corporations at the expense of our rights are unknowingly traitors, yes I said it. When one betrays the founding principles of what this country was founded on, then he/she is being a traitor. Now I got all the Liberals pretending to care about our rights, on this site upset. Frankly it's about time we grow up and be men. Millions died to protect what the Founding Fathers gave us and some even on this site I watch with regularity try to whittle away those rights.
Property rights in the Constitution were enumerated to Persons who were Natural born, not to fictional creatures like a corporation. WE need to finally get it right.
With Government selling off our infrastructure to foreigners we are loosing this nation and soon will be subject to their whims. The roads you drive on may already be sold to Spain who's history with oppressing rights is well known, not to mention the inquisition.....
What happens when we are told we can no longer carry on the property of Corporations?
This would include all roads and all property outside of your own, and guess what, if you do not have a deed and I do NOT man quit claim which is NOT a deed, then you are not the owner of your own property. You are listed as a tenant on your deed and or Mortgage. Yes look it up no where are you the owner.
Can you people now see the implications?
And don't tell me it won't or can't happen as you all said that about a firearms ban in the 1970's and Bill Klinton did just that.
DanM
Regular Member
I caught that sound and thought the same thing as Mo. I guess that's your story and your sticking to it.
TheQ
Regular Member
Bail Enforcer here is fond of speaking of Natural rights and Constitutional rights. I am too. As I said in my first post on this topic, the portion of the Civil Rights act called the "lunch counter" violates private property owners rights to do what they want with their property (be it a sole proprietor or a corporation) Should you be able to ban all of those things in YOUR McDonalds, yes. You can already ban blue shoes. Post a sign and kick everyone out with blue shoes. It's your natural right to ban the other two as well. If I don't like your practie (even if I'm not in the excluded group -- bu I'm against racism) you likely won't see me spending my money at your restaurant either.
Why should you guys take my word for it? Go talk to 100 lawyers, go ahead, you can pick every one of them as long as they are licensed by the bar.
All 100 will tell you the McDonalds is private property! I rest my case.
You sadly misunderstand the protections the Constitution gives you. The Constitution protects you from the government, not your fellow citizen.
And those investors are people and they have the right to their property -- their shares. Their shares indicate partial ownership of a corporation, of which the officers are stewards selected by the shareholders. Let's temporally assume the corporation has no inherent rights. The shareholders have rights.
If you persist in believing Corporate private property means anyone can use it for public purposes -- great. There's a company in Midland, Michigan. It has two private property campuses in this location surrounded by gates. Go have a picnic on their lawn. Stay in the same spot in the visible open all week long. Refuse to leave when someone tells you to. Tell me what jail they have you in by week's end -- I'll come visit!
[citation needed]
In fact, the only time the word "property" is mentioned in the Constitution is here:
"The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State."
Again, this is off-topic. Please IM me if you wish to continue to debate this point.
Last edited:
malignity
Regular Member
No. You cannot. If you don't believe me:
All 100 will tell you that you cannot do such a thing without facing severe legal repercussion either by a.) the ACLU and/or other equality organizations, or b.) McDonald's corporation.
The bottom line is this:
PRIVATE PROPERTY FAILS TO BE PRIVATE PROPERTY UNLESS YOU CAN DO WHATEVER THE HELL YOU WANT WITH IT; UP TO AND INCLUDING THE BANNING OF ANY RACE, RELIGION, ARTICLE OF CLOTHING AND/OR IDEAS.
You cannot do that if you 'own' a McDonald's. If you think that you can go around banning African Americans, berqa's, and free speech at your establishment, you obviously have absolutely no working knowledge on how businesses open to the public and civil liberties work and therefore this discussion is over.
By the way; off-topic or not, this is my thread. I choose what topic I want to post on. This would be it; provided administration (the forum ACLU... heh) continues to allow me to do so.
NHCGRPR45
Regular Member
I caught that sound and thought the same thing as Mo. I guess that's your story and your sticking to it.
i wasn't going to say anything,,,,,
B
Bikenut
Guest
Sorry... you do not "own" this thread... you merely started a discussion about a certain topic and you have no control over what direction that discussion might go in. If you think you do try to stop someone from posting a comment that isn't directly related to the original topic.
No one can stop a discussion from deviating from it's original topic... that is the very nature of an internet discussion.. or any discussion for that matter... and that is the healthy exchange of ideas in action.
Glock9mmOldStyle
Campaign Veteran
The Manager (if he was really the GM, & not an assistant or shift manager) was a complete goof. If I had been robbed as a manager I would want you guys there as often as possible. Also in his 17yrs in the food industry how many times has he seen a child pull a pistol out of a holster? PLEASE! Contact their corp. HQ & see what they have to say.
Master Control
Regular Member
Bailenforcer
Regular Member
Judge Napolitano addressed both questions.
1. a Public accommodation cannot limit your rights.
2. A private property and person can say who can and can't enter their property.
It ll hinges on what's a public place and what's a private persons place.
Maybe now the Pro corporation people will finally get a hint? I doubt it, because sometimes ignorance is like religion, people adhere to it despite common sense.
1. a Public accommodation cannot limit your rights.
2. A private property and person can say who can and can't enter their property.
It ll hinges on what's a public place and what's a private persons place.
Maybe now the Pro corporation people will finally get a hint? I doubt it, because sometimes ignorance is like religion, people adhere to it despite common sense.
stainless1911
Banned
stainless1911
Banned
malignity
Regular Member
Dude, if it was a fart, I'd man up cause that'd be hilarious.
If I have to make another sound recording to prove it wasn't though I will.
On another note, bikenut, obviously I can't control what other people post. I was speaking figuratively after being redirected to 'stay on topic' in a thread I posted.
If I have to make another sound recording to prove it wasn't though I will.
On another note, bikenut, obviously I can't control what other people post. I was speaking figuratively after being redirected to 'stay on topic' in a thread I posted.
stainless1911
Banned
LMAO:lol:
1245A Defender
Regular Member
wow!
i wanna get me a high post count too, just like you!!
i wanna get me a high post count too, just like you!!
TheQ
Regular Member
At least you've conceded the difference between a public accommodation (place) and public property.
Bronson
Regular Member
Venator
Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Back on topic, have they posted a no firearms sign? He said he would on Monday. Can someone go see if he did.
Onnie
Regular Member
I received this today from CiCi's when asking for their policy on Open
Carry!
"Thank you for taking the time to tell us about your visit to store #641. I
can understand your frustration and I apologize that you were disappointed
in your visit. I, personally, have a CHL and often carry my weapon,
although in Texas, it must be concealed.
CiCi's offers our guests a family friendly environment and as such, we feel
that it is not an environment which is conducive to openly carrying
handguns. There are many children in our stores and families often feel
uncomfortable when guests choose to carry their weapons inside.
In addition, since all of the stores in your area are franchised units,
that makes them a private business. If desired, the store owner may decide
not to allow weapons to be openly carried in their stores.
I will be glad to forward your comments to the Franchisee, Tracy Tucker and
our Brand Excellence Manager, Benito Suero so that they may address these
issues, further.
Please visit with us in the near future and allow us to offer you
exceptional service. It will be our pleasure to have you as our guests"
Carry!
"Thank you for taking the time to tell us about your visit to store #641. I
can understand your frustration and I apologize that you were disappointed
in your visit. I, personally, have a CHL and often carry my weapon,
although in Texas, it must be concealed.
CiCi's offers our guests a family friendly environment and as such, we feel
that it is not an environment which is conducive to openly carrying
handguns. There are many children in our stores and families often feel
uncomfortable when guests choose to carry their weapons inside.
In addition, since all of the stores in your area are franchised units,
that makes them a private business. If desired, the store owner may decide
not to allow weapons to be openly carried in their stores.
I will be glad to forward your comments to the Franchisee, Tracy Tucker and
our Brand Excellence Manager, Benito Suero so that they may address these
issues, further.
Please visit with us in the near future and allow us to offer you
exceptional service. It will be our pleasure to have you as our guests"
Last edited: