Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 98

Thread: Something came out at Spanaway event. Is Open Carry a white thing?

  1. #1
    Regular Member jsanchez's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    seattle
    Posts
    503

    Something came out at Spanaway event. Is Open Carry a white thing?

    The news media was asking questions to non-white members that could be construde as open carry is a white thing and how did they feel about this. Deros and I talked briefly about what we heard when the reporters were doing their interviews, and I'm wondering if the news media is trying to protray us in a bad light and is this something that needs to be looked at.

    I talked to some of my black friends about joining open carry because they feel strongly about their gun rights, but they told me they have enough problems just driving and walking while black, that it would not be something they would do.

    About six months ago, I had a hispanic american, who was a concealled carrier come up to me and want to know all about open carry. I gave him all the info.

    When I go to Wade's in Bellevue, I see other hispanic men in there, but they don't seem open to conversation, maybe I'm just to scary looking or maybe there is a divide that needs to be closed.

    I think we need to do some thinking about race relations and how our group can do outreach to communities of color members who feel strongly about their gun rights, so we can head off any propoganda of racism from the media.

    I hope I approached this in the right way, and that I did not offend anyone, its been on my mind since the Spanaway event, and I strongly thought it needed to be aired. Thank you.
    Last edited by jsanchez; 11-07-2010 at 02:24 PM.

  2. #2
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,613
    Quote Originally Posted by jsanchez View Post
    the news media is trying to protray us in a bad light and is this something that needs to be looked at.
    Gasp - please say it isn't so.

    All races, creeds etc are welcome here - non-discriminatory forum.

    Understand that some people may be faced with profiling when carrying which is perhaps all the more reason to join in with others on OCDO and become informed and involved.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  3. #3

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    54
    Quote Originally Posted by jsanchez View Post
    The news media was asking questions to non-white members that could be construde as open carry is a white thing and how did they feel about this. Deros and I talked briefly about what we heard when the reporters were doing their interviews, and I'm wondering if the news media is trying to protray us in a bad light and is this something that needs to be looked at.
    Seems to me that the way to respond to allegations of racism would be to point out that the origins of gun control are all about keeping african americans from having guns. What could possibly be *less* racist than saying gun control is not needed, and that all those african american, hispanic, native american folks all have the right to carry arms, just like caucasians do?

    And if that doesn't work, might I suggest that might be appropriate to respond by asking the reporter "So, you're <ethnicity of reporter>. Does that mean that journalism is an <ethnicity of reporter> thing?"

  5. #5
    Guest
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    808
    I wonder what my dad would think about this?

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Federal Way, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,666

    This group...

    First, unlike many internet forums...this group of people actually meet in person and do so often. We exclude no one. People who disagree with us are welcome.

    Second, this group of people (ocdo forum members) are open and have nothing to hide. We don't hide our guns, we don't hide our point of view and this group of people generally believe in liberty for all. There are men and women, there are gay and straight, there are white and native, black, asian, mixed..... I have met them and they are at events.

    Do not ever let the media frame ocdo as any thing but an open and honest group of Americans who believe in liberty for all.
    Live Free or Die!

  7. #7
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Lacey, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,990

    Race

    I'm not sure where this came from, but I welcome anybody that is legally allowed to carry a gun to our meetings.
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
    "Evil often triumphs, but never conquers." Joseph Roux
    http://nwfood.shelfreliance.com

  8. #8
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Invisible Mode
    Posts
    6,217
    Quote Originally Posted by jsanchez View Post

    I talked to some of my black friends about joining open carry because they feel strongly about their gun rights, but they told me they have enough problems just driving and walking while black, that it would not be something they would do.
    Racism is still alive and still problematic in America. Your friends' sentiments are solid evidence of this.

    My reckoning based on being around here for almost 4 years is that OC is almost entirely a "white thing," as your title suggests. If it is, that doesn't make it bad. But it does make it, uhm, deficient...

    Quote Originally Posted by jsanchez View Post
    I think we need to do some thinking about race relations and how our group can do outreach to communities of color members who feel strongly about their gun rights, so we can head off any propoganda of racism from the media.
    Y'know this reminds me of something I've thought about for a long time--What would happen if a significant number of blacks and Hispanic males living in the barrio/hood/ghetto in states where OC is legal all of a sudden started to OC? I'm talking about legal OC, of course.

    How would the local populace react? The police? The news media? The local gangsta-types? The legislators?

    I think it would be very interesting.

    But however it would turn out, I agree with you--We need more blacks and Hispanics to open carry. Our goal should be to have about 26% of all OC to be done by blacks/Hispanics.


    Whaddya think, guys?

  9. #9
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North of Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,953
    Quote Originally Posted by HankT View Post
    Racism is still alive and still problematic in America.
    The only real change is that it is no longer sanctioned by law and it is not as widespread as 150 years ago.



    Quote Originally Posted by HankT
    Y'know this reminds me of something I've thought about for a long time--What would happen if a significant number of blacks and Hispanic males living in the barrio/hood/ghetto in states where OC is legal all of a sudden started to OC? I'm talking about legal OC, of course.

    How would the local populace react? The police? The news media? The local gangsta-types? The legislators?

    I think it would be very interesting.

    The initial response would no doubt be the same as what happens to all to many "white" OC carriers, only worse. Any Black or Hispanic OC'r in a "questionable" neighborhood would more likely than not be treated as a suspected felon and the "facts" would be filled in later. Profiling, while illegal, yada, yada, yada, would still be the rule.

    I'm not surprised that a member of the minority community would respond that they have enough issues without adding to them. They are no doubt subjected to numerous unwanted intrusions by LEO's just because their skin matches the stereotype of a "hood".

    I wouldn't trust either our media or our legislature to respond in any positive manner if substantial numbers of "minorities" started openly carrying. How do you think they would respond if muslims in traditional dress started carrying openly in this day and age? Uh, isn't that how we got 9.41.270?

    We here all should know well that while something may be[ legal, it doesn't always mean it is accepted.

    Change might be effected if every time a meet was scheduled as many as possible reached out to any friends that fit the category we are discussing here and invited them. Then the group would be there to witness any adverse contacts by LEO's and assist by joining any complaint that they might be able to file.
    Last edited by amlevin; 11-07-2010 at 05:27 PM.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Renton, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,201
    As most of you know, I was interviewed by the media at the Spanaway event. The female reporter who spoke to me did mention race and asked me a hypothetical. She asked me what I would do if I drove up to a Starbucks and there were 50 black people out front, open carrying. I told her I was color blind and would get out of my car and join them. I got the impression that that was not the answer she was looking for so it did not make the newscast. I was a little annoyed that she would bring up race and suggest that we were racist; clearly we are not and I was trying to convey that message. I also told her that we welcomed all races, women, etc. We often have our differences on here but I don't think I have ever met a more honest, open, and fair group of people anywhere. Most of the people on this forum really do believe and live liberrty and justice for ALL. As annoyed as I get from time to time, I am proud to be associated with all of you.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Somewhere over run with mud(s)
    Posts
    791
    First off NO! on the "race relations" We dont need to go out and have us a "token black friend OCDO guy" We accept FREEMEN (and women) who can LEGALLY own a firearm. Does not matter if they are the color of night sights in the dark. There is no racism here, we have nothing to hide, yet we alos have nothing to prove. We do not need to go out and "recruit" us a OC black guy just to prove we aren't racist skin-head neo-nazis.

    Second, racism goes both ways! There are "white anglo-saxons" who are victims of race discrimination as well. Affirmative action places ALL of us in this position. The fact that someone LESS qualified can get a job over you because they are a different skin color is racism, regardless of what races are involved. The mere MENTION that we are racist because we dont have x number of minorities is in and of itself racist! The fact that I had to quit my job due to harassment I received regarding my religion and past military experiences from a minority and the Union would do nothing about it because she was a minority is racist. Period end of story.
    "And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee.
    Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command.
    So we shall flow a river forth to Thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
    E nomine Patri, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti."


    "If the rest of the world says: 'War,' I can only say: 'Very well. I do not want war, but no one, however peaceable, can live in peace if his neighbor intends to force a quarrel.'" - Adolf Hitler...

  12. #12
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,613
    While I appreciate that there are those that see no need for "recruitment" of minorities, there is another POV.

    People in minority classes have not been as high profile as the middle aged white male. They may not have been front and center for numerous reasons. We need to encourage their participation for the benefit that as responsible individuals they can spread the word into groups that have not been so quick to join us, thereby broadening our base and strengthening both. Absolutely nothing wrong with such representation. RKBA is neither discriminatory nor exclusive.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Long gone
    Posts
    2,575
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby View Post
    As most of you know, I was interviewed by the media at the Spanaway event. The female reporter who spoke to me did mention race and asked me a hypothetical. She asked me what I would do if I drove up to a Starbucks and there were 50 black people out front, open carrying. I told her I was color blind and would get out of my car and join them. I got the impression that that was not the answer she was looking for so it did not make the newscast. I was a little annoyed that she would bring up race and suggest that we were racist; clearly we are not and I was trying to convey that message. I also told her that we welcomed all races, women, etc. We often have our differences on here but I don't think I have ever met a more honest, open, and fair group of people anywhere. Most of the people on this forum really do believe and live liberrty and justice for ALL. As annoyed as I get from time to time, I am proud to be associated with all of you.
    The media has been tossing out the the race card at every opportunity lately, its simply name calling because they are not getting what they want. Good job Ruby.

    Hank T I reach out to everyone, suggesting that we should reach out to minorities just because they are a minority is a racist comment in my book.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Somewhere over run with mud(s)
    Posts
    791
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    While I appreciate that there are those that see no need for "recruitment" of minorities, there is another POV.

    People in minority classes have not been as high profile as the middle aged white male. They may not have been front and center for numerous reasons. We need to encourage their participation for the benefit that as responsible individuals they can spread the word into groups that have not been so quick to join us, thereby broadening our base and strengthening both. Absolutely nothing wrong with such representation. RKBA is neither discriminatory nor exclusive.
    Perhaps you are not understanding, the fact that you are actively LOOKING for someone who meets certain racial qualifications IS RACIST. We NEED to talk to ALL of our friends, regardless of age race color or creed, and talk to them about joining. Not turn into a bunch of racist by ACTIVELY recruiting someone to "make our image better" That in and of itself is the very definition of racism...
    "And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee.
    Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command.
    So we shall flow a river forth to Thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
    E nomine Patri, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti."


    "If the rest of the world says: 'War,' I can only say: 'Very well. I do not want war, but no one, however peaceable, can live in peace if his neighbor intends to force a quarrel.'" - Adolf Hitler...

  15. #15
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan View Post
    The media has been tossing out the the race card at every opportunity lately, its simply name calling because they are not getting what they want. Good job Ruby.

    Hank T I reach out to everyone, suggesting that we should reach out to minorities just because they are a minority is a racist comment in my book.
    We all are Americans people can stuff their hyphens. I know several folks of "color" including my family who are native who would carry but are afraid of "white" folks reaction and LEO. The LEO I can understand, they can be bastards here in this town to the native folks.

    That being said watch HankT's posts carefully he loves to stir the pot and his sly racism ploy is just that. Reminds me of a Washington guy I got on ignore, yet HankT is more smart about how he does it.

  16. #16
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,613
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    While I appreciate that there are those that see no need for "recruitment" of minorities, there is another POV.

    People in minority classes have not been as high profile as the middle aged white male. They may not have been front and center for numerous reasons. We need to encourage their participation for the benefit that as responsible individuals they can spread the word into groups that have not been so quick to join us, thereby broadening our base and strengthening both. Absolutely nothing wrong with such representation. RKBA is neither discriminatory nor exclusive.
    Quote Originally Posted by devildoc5 View Post
    Perhaps you are not understanding, the fact that you are actively LOOKING for someone who meets certain racial qualifications IS RACIST. We NEED to talk to ALL of our friends, regardless of age race color or creed, and talk to them about joining. Not turn into a bunch of racist by ACTIVELY recruiting someone to "make our image better" That in and of itself is the very definition of racism...

    Racist is a term full of negative qualities which I reject here out of hand.

    Best that you reread my post - I did NOT mention race. I addressed inclusion of all minority classes.

    While women are not exactly in such a class, but I have long said that there was nothing more golden than a woman OCing with a toddler at her side or baby in her arms - such makes a persuasive, positive statement. Our local state organization (http://www.vcdl.org/) has members that are in wheelchairs, have come from foreign counties, are of various ethnic and religious groups and yes of different races. Does encouraging their membership make us "racists?" I think not. We wish to represent all responsible members of our society and not be simply a "good 'ol boys" club.

    Makes sense to me.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 11-07-2010 at 10:06 PM. Reason: added
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Somewhere over run with mud(s)
    Posts
    791
    and once again apparently you are not reading my responses correctly.

    I agree 100% that we ARE open to an and every law abiding citizen to OC and come to meets and talk to the media (pending approval by the Public Relations Committee...) However if you ACTIVELY go out seeking THOSE types of recruits you are being racist, sexist, ageist, homoist, or whatever. IT IS STILL DISCRIMINATION....

    By actively looking for someone that meets a certain "physical characteristic" you are thereby concentrating on making that person your "number 1 priority" you are neglecting or overlooking others who may "work" in your organization or company or whatever, but since you are looking for someone who meets certain physical characteristics you are elevating them and discriminating against others. That is all i am trying to say...
    "And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee.
    Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command.
    So we shall flow a river forth to Thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
    E nomine Patri, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti."


    "If the rest of the world says: 'War,' I can only say: 'Very well. I do not want war, but no one, however peaceable, can live in peace if his neighbor intends to force a quarrel.'" - Adolf Hitler...

  18. #18
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Invisible Mode
    Posts
    6,217
    Quote Originally Posted by devildoc5 View Post
    First off NO! on the "race relations" We dont need to go out and have us a "token black friend OCDO guy" We accept FREEMEN (and women) who can LEGALLY own a firearm. Does not matter if they are the color of night sights in the dark. There is no racism here, we have nothing to hide, yet we alos have nothing to prove. We do not need to go out and "recruit" us a OC black guy just to prove we aren't racist skin-head neo-nazis.
    I don't think the OP was talking about recruiting one or only a few "token" minorities. He was talking about recruiting MANY blacks and Hispanics.

    Logically, adding MANY thousands of blacks and Hispanics to the OC camp will make it stronger because it will be more representative of contemporary America.

    OTOH, adding MANY thousands of blacks and Hispanics would likely generate MANY more comments such as:

    Quote Originally Posted by devildoc5 View Post
    Second, racism goes both ways! There are "white anglo-saxons" who are victims of race discrimination as well. Affirmative action places ALL of us in this position. The fact that someone LESS qualified can get a job over you because they are a different skin color is racism, regardless of what races are involved. The mere MENTION that we are racist because we dont have x number of minorities is in and of itself racist! The fact that I had to quit my job due to harassment I received regarding my religion and past military experiences from a minority and the Union would do nothing about it because she was a minority is racist. Period end of story.
    But let's face it, cumulatively, throughout our U.S. history, the amount and degree of racism against blacks utterly dwarfs the reverse discrimination. It's not even close to being close. I am ambivalent about reverse discrimination in a lot of cases. It's true that it exists. And will continue. Just like regular ole traditional racism...

  19. #19
    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Port Orchard, Washington, United States
    Posts
    504
    There is no reverse racism or discrimination. Just racism and discrimination. Be it good or bad, focusing just because of the trait is wrong.



    *edit*
    Saying that giving a man a job strictly because of the color of his skin is "reverse racism" is like saying that stalking someone because you love them is "reverse harassment".

    ...just sayin'... =\
    Last edited by xxx.jakk.xxx; 11-07-2010 at 10:30 PM.
    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Psalms 23:4

    "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power." Benjamin Franklin

    “It’s always open season on criminals in Mason County, and there’s no bag limit.” Sen. Tim Sheldon (D)

    Molōn labe!

  20. #20
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,613
    Quote Originally Posted by devildoc5 View Post
    and once again apparently you are not reading my responses correctly.

    I agree 100% that we ARE open to an and every law abiding citizen to OC and come to meets and talk to the media (pending approval by the Public Relations Committee...) However if you ACTIVELY go out seeking THOSE types of recruits you are being racist, sexist, ageist, homoist, or whatever. IT IS STILL DISCRIMINATION....

    By actively looking for someone that meets a certain "physical characteristic" you are thereby concentrating on making that person your "number 1 priority" you are neglecting or overlooking others who may "work" in your organization or company or whatever, but since you are looking for someone who meets certain physical characteristics you are elevating them and discriminating against others. That is all i am trying to say...
    Discrimination involves unfair treatment of a person or group on the basis of prejudice. If I say to you "You are not well represented here. Join us." I have NOT shown favoritism to one over another - I have NOT selected one to the exclusion of the other - rather I have opened the door for all equally. If there were a quota or limit on openings, I might agree with you.

    In any event - all responsible people are welcomed. finis
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  21. #21
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmarine View Post
    So what your saying is, there needs to be some kind of quota. Where did you come up with the 26% figure ? Furthermore, as for some blacks starting their own OC thing, what's preventing them from doing so. Then what would all of you bleeding hearts say then. . . huh ??? Would a single white guy come out and say, "why are there no whites in your group, is it an all black thing". I think not.
    I wouldn't say it was a black thing but would love to be the "token" in a group like that......

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Federal Way, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,666
    Live Free or Die!

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Lakewood, WA
    Posts
    1,001
    Door's open for every law abiding citizen to join, regardless of race. I'm not gonna start focusing on only asking any sort of minority to join, whether it be race, class, gender, orientation, religion, etc. I'm still gonna spread the word to EVERY law abiding citizen, regardless of race. If someone expresses concern because of their race, then sure, talk to them about it. But I don't think we need any sort of race quota. We just need more Americans to be informed, period. So what about race demographics? Who cares? What difference does it make? If I owned a business and needed to hire people, I wouldn't even have a place for someone to check what race they are on the application.

    Bottom line is we don't need to get some quota going to look good. It would completely undermine the purpose of having people as a part of this community. Instead of having people here for the purpose of normalizing open carry in everyday life, they'd be here for the purpose of helping make some sort of quota. We don't need it. We need law abiding Americans here for the purpose of supporting open carry. Period.

    BTW, where the hell did 26% come from?

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Wa, ,
    Posts
    2,769
    Quote Originally Posted by HankT View Post
    Racism is still alive and still problematic in America. Your friends' sentiments are solid evidence of this.

    My reckoning based on being around here for almost 4 years is that OC is almost entirely a "white thing," as your title suggests. If it is, that doesn't make it bad. But it does make it, uhm, deficient...



    Y'know this reminds me of something I've thought about for a long time--What would happen if a significant number of blacks and Hispanic males living in the barrio/hood/ghetto in states where OC is legal all of a sudden started to OC? I'm talking about legal OC, of course.

    How would the local populace react? The police? The news media? The local gangsta-types? The legislators?

    I think it would be very interesting.

    But however it would turn out, I agree with you--We need more blacks and Hispanics to open carry. Our goal should be to have about 26% of all OC to be done by blacks/Hispanics.


    Whaddya think, guys?
    I will tell ya what I think. Your goal of 26% is racist in as much as it sets a limit on participation by those of different ethnic background.
    Our goal should be have as many LAC as possible, become regular OCers regardless of their ethnicity.

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Federal Way, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,666
    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Y'all fallin' for it....

    HankT is just an agitator.....<IGNORE>

    Live Free or Die!

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •