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Something came out at Spanaway event. Is Open Carry a white thing?

jsanchez

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May 9, 2010
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The news media was asking questions to non-white members that could be construde as open carry is a white thing and how did they feel about this. Deros and I talked briefly about what we heard when the reporters were doing their interviews, and I'm wondering if the news media is trying to protray us in a bad light and is this something that needs to be looked at.

I talked to some of my black friends about joining open carry because they feel strongly about their gun rights, but they told me they have enough problems just driving and walking while black, that it would not be something they would do.

About six months ago, I had a hispanic american, who was a concealled carrier come up to me and want to know all about open carry. I gave him all the info.

When I go to Wade's in Bellevue, I see other hispanic men in there, but they don't seem open to conversation, maybe I'm just to scary looking or maybe there is a divide that needs to be closed.

I think we need to do some thinking about race relations and how our group can do outreach to communities of color members who feel strongly about their gun rights, so we can head off any propoganda of racism from the media.

I hope I approached this in the right way, and that I did not offend anyone, its been on my mind since the Spanaway event, and I strongly thought it needed to be aired. Thank you.
 
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Grapeshot

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the news media is trying to protray us in a bad light and is this something that needs to be looked at.

Gasp - please say it isn't so. :D

All races, creeds etc are welcome here - non-discriminatory forum.

Understand that some people may be faced with profiling when carrying which is perhaps all the more reason to join in with others on OCDO and become informed and involved.
 

MrGray

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The news media was asking questions to non-white members that could be construde as open carry is a white thing and how did they feel about this. Deros and I talked briefly about what we heard when the reporters were doing their interviews, and I'm wondering if the news media is trying to protray us in a bad light and is this something that needs to be looked at.

Seems to me that the way to respond to allegations of racism would be to point out that the origins of gun control are all about keeping african americans from having guns. What could possibly be *less* racist than saying gun control is not needed, and that all those african american, hispanic, native american folks all have the right to carry arms, just like caucasians do?

And if that doesn't work, might I suggest that might be appropriate to respond by asking the reporter "So, you're <ethnicity of reporter>. Does that mean that journalism is an <ethnicity of reporter> thing?"
 

gogodawgs

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This group...

First, unlike many internet forums...this group of people actually meet in person and do so often. We exclude no one. People who disagree with us are welcome.

Second, this group of people (ocdo forum members) are open and have nothing to hide. We don't hide our guns, we don't hide our point of view and this group of people generally believe in liberty for all. There are men and women, there are gay and straight, there are white and native, black, asian, mixed..... I have met them and they are at events.

Do not ever let the media frame ocdo as any thing but an open and honest group of Americans who believe in liberty for all.
 

HankT

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I talked to some of my black friends about joining open carry because they feel strongly about their gun rights, but they told me they have enough problems just driving and walking while black, that it would not be something they would do.
Racism is still alive and still problematic in America. Your friends' sentiments are solid evidence of this.

My reckoning based on being around here for almost 4 years is that OC is almost entirely a "white thing," as your title suggests. If it is, that doesn't make it bad. But it does make it, uhm, deficient...

I think we need to do some thinking about race relations and how our group can do outreach to communities of color members who feel strongly about their gun rights, so we can head off any propoganda of racism from the media.

Y'know this reminds me of something I've thought about for a long time--What would happen if a significant number of blacks and Hispanic males living in the barrio/hood/ghetto in states where OC is legal all of a sudden started to OC? I'm talking about legal OC, of course.

How would the local populace react? The police? The news media? The local gangsta-types? The legislators?

I think it would be very interesting.

But however it would turn out, I agree with you--We need more blacks and Hispanics to open carry. Our goal should be to have about 26% of all OC to be done by blacks/Hispanics.


Whaddya think, guys?
 

amlevin

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Racism is still alive and still problematic in America.

The only real change is that it is no longer sanctioned by law and it is not as widespread as 150 years ago.



HankT said:
Y'know this reminds me of something I've thought about for a long time--What would happen if a significant number of blacks and Hispanic males living in the barrio/hood/ghetto in states where OC is legal all of a sudden started to OC? I'm talking about legal OC, of course.

How would the local populace react? The police? The news media? The local gangsta-types? The legislators?

I think it would be very interesting.


The initial response would no doubt be the same as what happens to all to many "white" OC carriers, only worse. Any Black or Hispanic OC'r in a "questionable" neighborhood would more likely than not be treated as a suspected felon and the "facts" would be filled in later. Profiling, while illegal, yada, yada, yada, would still be the rule.

I'm not surprised that a member of the minority community would respond that they have enough issues without adding to them. They are no doubt subjected to numerous unwanted intrusions by LEO's just because their skin matches the stereotype of a "hood".

I wouldn't trust either our media or our legislature to respond in any positive manner if substantial numbers of "minorities" started openly carrying. How do you think they would respond if muslims in traditional dress started carrying openly in this day and age? Uh, isn't that how we got 9.41.270?

We here all should know well that while something may be[ legal, it doesn't always mean it is accepted.

Change might be effected if every time a meet was scheduled as many as possible reached out to any friends that fit the category we are discussing here and invited them. Then the group would be there to witness any adverse contacts by LEO's and assist by joining any complaint that they might be able to file.
 
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Ruby

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Renton, Washington, USA
As most of you know, I was interviewed by the media at the Spanaway event. The female reporter who spoke to me did mention race and asked me a hypothetical. She asked me what I would do if I drove up to a Starbucks and there were 50 black people out front, open carrying. I told her I was color blind and would get out of my car and join them. I got the impression that that was not the answer she was looking for so it did not make the newscast. I was a little annoyed that she would bring up race and suggest that we were racist; clearly we are not and I was trying to convey that message. I also told her that we welcomed all races, women, etc. We often have our differences on here but I don't think I have ever met a more honest, open, and fair group of people anywhere. Most of the people on this forum really do believe and live liberrty and justice for ALL. As annoyed as I get from time to time, I am proud to be associated with all of you.:banana:
 

devildoc5

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First off NO! on the "race relations" We dont need to go out and have us a "token black friend OCDO guy" We accept FREEMEN (and women) who can LEGALLY own a firearm. Does not matter if they are the color of night sights in the dark. There is no racism here, we have nothing to hide, yet we alos have nothing to prove. We do not need to go out and "recruit" us a OC black guy just to prove we aren't racist skin-head neo-nazis.

Second, racism goes both ways! There are "white anglo-saxons" who are victims of race discrimination as well. Affirmative action places ALL of us in this position. The fact that someone LESS qualified can get a job over you because they are a different skin color is racism, regardless of what races are involved. The mere MENTION that we are racist because we dont have x number of minorities is in and of itself racist! The fact that I had to quit my job due to harassment I received regarding my religion and past military experiences from a minority and the Union would do nothing about it because she was a minority is racist. Period end of story.
 

Grapeshot

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While I appreciate that there are those that see no need for "recruitment" of minorities, there is another POV.

People in minority classes have not been as high profile as the middle aged white male. They may not have been front and center for numerous reasons. We need to encourage their participation for the benefit that as responsible individuals they can spread the word into groups that have not been so quick to join us, thereby broadening our base and strengthening both. Absolutely nothing wrong with such representation. RKBA is neither discriminatory nor exclusive.
 

Jeff Hayes

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As most of you know, I was interviewed by the media at the Spanaway event. The female reporter who spoke to me did mention race and asked me a hypothetical. She asked me what I would do if I drove up to a Starbucks and there were 50 black people out front, open carrying. I told her I was color blind and would get out of my car and join them. I got the impression that that was not the answer she was looking for so it did not make the newscast. I was a little annoyed that she would bring up race and suggest that we were racist; clearly we are not and I was trying to convey that message. I also told her that we welcomed all races, women, etc. We often have our differences on here but I don't think I have ever met a more honest, open, and fair group of people anywhere. Most of the people on this forum really do believe and live liberrty and justice for ALL. As annoyed as I get from time to time, I am proud to be associated with all of you.:banana:

The media has been tossing out the the race card at every opportunity lately, its simply name calling because they are not getting what they want. Good job Ruby.

Hank T I reach out to everyone, suggesting that we should reach out to minorities just because they are a minority is a racist comment in my book.
 

devildoc5

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While I appreciate that there are those that see no need for "recruitment" of minorities, there is another POV.

People in minority classes have not been as high profile as the middle aged white male. They may not have been front and center for numerous reasons. We need to encourage their participation for the benefit that as responsible individuals they can spread the word into groups that have not been so quick to join us, thereby broadening our base and strengthening both. Absolutely nothing wrong with such representation. RKBA is neither discriminatory nor exclusive.

Perhaps you are not understanding, the fact that you are actively LOOKING for someone who meets certain racial qualifications IS RACIST. We NEED to talk to ALL of our friends, regardless of age race color or creed, and talk to them about joining. Not turn into a bunch of racist by ACTIVELY recruiting someone to "make our image better" That in and of itself is the very definition of racism...
 

sudden valley gunner

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The media has been tossing out the the race card at every opportunity lately, its simply name calling because they are not getting what they want. Good job Ruby.

Hank T I reach out to everyone, suggesting that we should reach out to minorities just because they are a minority is a racist comment in my book.

We all are Americans people can stuff their hyphens. I know several folks of "color" including my family who are native who would carry but are afraid of "white" folks reaction and LEO. The LEO I can understand, they can be bastards here in this town to the native folks.

That being said watch HankT's posts carefully he loves to stir the pot and his sly racism ploy is just that. Reminds me of a Washington guy I got on ignore, yet HankT is more smart about how he does it.
 

Grapeshot

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While I appreciate that there are those that see no need for "recruitment" of minorities, there is another POV.

People in minority classes have not been as high profile as the middle aged white male. They may not have been front and center for numerous reasons. We need to encourage their participation for the benefit that as responsible individuals they can spread the word into groups that have not been so quick to join us, thereby broadening our base and strengthening both. Absolutely nothing wrong with such representation. RKBA is neither discriminatory nor exclusive.

Perhaps you are not understanding, the fact that you are actively LOOKING for someone who meets certain racial qualifications IS RACIST. We NEED to talk to ALL of our friends, regardless of age race color or creed, and talk to them about joining. Not turn into a bunch of racist by ACTIVELY recruiting someone to "make our image better" That in and of itself is the very definition of racism...


Racist is a term full of negative qualities which I reject here out of hand.

Best that you reread my post - I did NOT mention race. I addressed inclusion of all minority classes.

While women are not exactly in such a class, but I have long said that there was nothing more golden than a woman OCing with a toddler at her side or baby in her arms - such makes a persuasive, positive statement. Our local state organization (http://www.vcdl.org/) has members that are in wheelchairs, have come from foreign counties, are of various ethnic and religious groups and yes of different races. Does encouraging their membership make us "racists?" I think not. We wish to represent all responsible members of our society and not be simply a "good 'ol boys" club.

Makes sense to me.
icon7.png
 
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devildoc5

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and once again apparently you are not reading my responses correctly.

I agree 100% that we ARE open to an and every law abiding citizen to OC and come to meets and talk to the media (pending approval by the Public Relations Committee...) However if you ACTIVELY go out seeking THOSE types of recruits you are being racist, sexist, ageist, homoist, or whatever. IT IS STILL DISCRIMINATION....

By actively looking for someone that meets a certain "physical characteristic" you are thereby concentrating on making that person your "number 1 priority" you are neglecting or overlooking others who may "work" in your organization or company or whatever, but since you are looking for someone who meets certain physical characteristics you are elevating them and discriminating against others. That is all i am trying to say...
 

HankT

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First off NO! on the "race relations" We dont need to go out and have us a "token black friend OCDO guy" We accept FREEMEN (and women) who can LEGALLY own a firearm. Does not matter if they are the color of night sights in the dark. There is no racism here, we have nothing to hide, yet we alos have nothing to prove. We do not need to go out and "recruit" us a OC black guy just to prove we aren't racist skin-head neo-nazis.

I don't think the OP was talking about recruiting one or only a few "token" minorities. He was talking about recruiting MANY blacks and Hispanics.

Logically, adding MANY thousands of blacks and Hispanics to the OC camp will make it stronger because it will be more representative of contemporary America.

OTOH, adding MANY thousands of blacks and Hispanics would likely generate MANY more comments such as:

Second, racism goes both ways! There are "white anglo-saxons" who are victims of race discrimination as well. Affirmative action places ALL of us in this position. The fact that someone LESS qualified can get a job over you because they are a different skin color is racism, regardless of what races are involved. The mere MENTION that we are racist because we dont have x number of minorities is in and of itself racist! The fact that I had to quit my job due to harassment I received regarding my religion and past military experiences from a minority and the Union would do nothing about it because she was a minority is racist. Period end of story.

But let's face it, cumulatively, throughout our U.S. history, the amount and degree of racism against blacks utterly dwarfs the reverse discrimination. It's not even close to being close. I am ambivalent about reverse discrimination in a lot of cases. It's true that it exists. And will continue. Just like regular ole traditional racism...
 

xxx.jakk.xxx

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There is no reverse racism or discrimination. Just racism and discrimination. Be it good or bad, focusing just because of the trait is wrong.



*edit*
Saying that giving a man a job strictly because of the color of his skin is "reverse racism" is like saying that stalking someone because you love them is "reverse harassment".

...just sayin'... =\
 
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Grapeshot

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and once again apparently you are not reading my responses correctly.

I agree 100% that we ARE open to an and every law abiding citizen to OC and come to meets and talk to the media (pending approval by the Public Relations Committee...) However if you ACTIVELY go out seeking THOSE types of recruits you are being racist, sexist, ageist, homoist, or whatever. IT IS STILL DISCRIMINATION....

By actively looking for someone that meets a certain "physical characteristic" you are thereby concentrating on making that person your "number 1 priority" you are neglecting or overlooking others who may "work" in your organization or company or whatever, but since you are looking for someone who meets certain physical characteristics you are elevating them and discriminating against others. That is all i am trying to say...

Discrimination involves unfair treatment of a person or group on the basis of prejudice. If I say to you "You are not well represented here. Join us." I have NOT shown favoritism to one over another - I have NOT selected one to the exclusion of the other - rather I have opened the door for all equally. If there were a quota or limit on openings, I might agree with you.

In any event - all responsible people are welcomed. finis
 
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