The judge should be thrown off the bench.
What is this nation coming to?
OCTOBER 7--A Mississippi judge yesterday jailed a lawyer who refused to recite the Pledge of Allegiance in his courtroom.
Attorney Danny Lampley, 49, was taken into custody Wednesday morning after Chancellor Talmadge Littlejohn cited him for criminal contempt of court for failing to recite the 31-word pledge at the outset of the morning’s proceedings at the Lee County courthouse.
An October 6 order signed by Talmadge notes that Lampley was being charged for his “failure to stand and recite the Pledge of Allegiance as ordered.” Lampley, the judge added, “shall purge himself of said criminal contempt…by standing and reciting the Pledge of Allegiance in open court.”
Lampley, pictured in the mug shots at right, was jailed for nearly five hours before Littlejohn ordered his release so that the lawyer could be present for a “previously set hearing before the Court.” The attorney, no longer in stripes, returned to the Tupelo courthouse after being sprung from jail.
It is unclear whether Lampley, who does not believe citizens are required to recite the pledge, will again be sanctioned by Littlejohn if he takes a pass on the pledge.
The judge should be thrown off the bench.
Last edited by Tawnos; 11-08-2010 at 01:08 PM.
"If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex
Not enough detail.
Was the lawyer required to be in the courtroom during the pledge? If so, it would be reasonable to make him stand when everyone stands, but not to make him recite the pledge.
If the lawyer chose to be in the courtroom at the time of the pledge and, by way of some kind of protest, wouldn't stand or made a show of not saying the pledge, then he was indeed in contempt.
The media tend not to give us all the details, especially when they want us to come down on one side of the issue or the other.
I will withhold judgment until I have those details.
I applaud the Judge, The Pledge of Allegiance is a statement of patriotic loyalty and shows respect to those who gave their all to protect this nation One important angle for atheists to remember when opposing the Pledge is that the words "under God" were added during the Cold War, during the McCarthy Era of anti-atheist and anti-Communism. The anti-Communist movement was always an anti-atheist movement, as McCarthy himself declared when launching his "war": Because this wording ("under God") was intended specifically to endorse McCarthy's anti-atheist sentiments, people usually have a very easy time opposing any requirement to recite the pledge. I can understand people whom don't want to say under God is fine by me, but don't just sit there like a bump on a long and slap the faces of all those who fought for your right to act like an "donkey".
Last edited by zack991; 11-08-2010 at 01:21 PM.
Contempt of Court. You WILL do what the Judge wants or you CAN go straight to jail. That's the way it works.
And the ultimate somebody is We the People.
I am not satisfied that it has been established that the judge overstepped his bounds. However, if he required a recitation of the pledge by someone forced to be present (and not just standing out of respect for others or waiting outside the courtroom until the pledge has been completed), then he overstepped his bounds.
A judge has nearly absolute, but decidedly not absolute, authority in his courtroom.
Some folks need to examine their axioms about the power people in authority in this country have.
Last edited by zack991; 11-08-2010 at 02:08 PM.
OT - found this story while searching for other reports of the above story.the Pledge should be recited in English -- and English only.
If guns cause crime.....mine must be defective.
I forget the name of the case... was the 1970's as I recall... was a SCOTUS ruling that found it unconstitutional to require students to recite the pledge in school.
I would think the same liberty would apply to a lawyer in a court room?
I solemnly swear (or affirm) I will support the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of Louisiana;
I will maintain the respect due to courts of justice and judicial officers;
I will not counsel or maintain any suit or proceeding which shall appear to me to be unjust, nor any defense except such as I believe to be honestly debatable under the law of the land;
I will employ for the purpose of maintaining the causes confided to me such means only as are consistent with truth and honor, and will never seek to mislead the judge or jury by an artifice or false statement of fact or law;
I will maintain the confidence and preserve inviolate the secrets of my client, and will accept no compensation in connection with a client's business except from the client or with the client's knowledge and approval;
I will abstain from all offensive personality, and advance no fact prejudicial to the honor or reputation of a party or witness, unless required by the justice of the cause with which I am charged;
I will never reject, from any consideration personal to myself, the cause of the defenseless or oppressed, or delay any person's cause for lucre or malice.
So help me God.
Now... if he won't pledge allegience to the flag and nation whose Constitution he has sworn to uphold and defend... and such reaffirmation is required by Judge So 'n So's Court... then yeah, he can be held in Contempt. Same as on a military installation when colors or retreat is sounded. You better stop dead and salute in the general direction of the base flagstaff (even if you can't see it) untill the bugle call is complete.
Last edited by Sonora Rebel; 11-08-2010 at 03:01 PM.
Criminal Contempt...To be a crime there must be a damaged party.
Life is tough, its tougher when your stupid.
Feds: U.C.C. 1-308, State: U.C.C. 1-207, Both: U.C.C. 1-103.6
Sonara - please tell me where the line is drawn. If "rules are rules", then what is an inappropriate rule that cannot be enforced with contempt, and what makes it exempt?
Our Founding Documents were written in English. Laws are passed in English. Regulations are written in English. Highway signs are in English. Court proceedings are conducted and published in English. Etc.
We just don't have the stones to expect folks who come here to adopt the language, and we bend over backwards to accommodate them to our own detriment.
I picked up a box in the BX a few months ago and had a heckuva time figuring out what was in it. Between the four languages on the box and the 200 or so warnings and legal disclaimers, there wasn't much room for the product name!
If the discussion continues to that point, I'll be happy to link my English official language proposed constitutional amendment. I think it actually increases Liberty while fostering a common language.
BTW, we talked about the government's responsibility in setting standards of weights and measures in another thread and the importance of being able to communicate using agreed-upon terms. What greater standard of agreed-upon terms is there than an entire language?
Nowhere in our documents does it say that we have an official english. We use english, because most (soon, maybe not so) citizens speak it. English is the de facto language of the county.
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Last edited by Doug Huffman; 11-08-2010 at 04:38 PM.
And if I'm not mistaken, I think I read elsewhere that the judge did come up with that policy himself. As has been mentioned, the judge is there to preside over hearings, he is not a deity nor can he arbitrarily order anyone to do whatever he wants them to do simply because it's his courtroom.
So, tell me "Sonora", where is the line drawn? What orders, if anything, in your mind, constitutes a violation of law?
What if the judge asked everyone in the court room to say a prayer to Jesus Christ, despite there being Muslims, Jews and Buddhists present? Should he toss them all in jail for refusing?
How about try answering the question instead of throwing out the red herring.
Last edited by Aaron1124; 11-08-2010 at 07:05 PM.
I am sorry you had to tolerate such an unnecessarily insulting post. Normally, I don't have to read that stuff. But you saw fit to quote it!
Here is Volokh's take:
Eugene Volokh • October 7, 2010 4:32 pm
That’s what the Court held 67 years ago even as to schoolchildren, and the rationale of the case would squarely apply to others, such as lawyers. But news travels slowly to one Mississippi courtroom, where Chancery Judge Talmadge Littlejohn sent a lawyer to jail for contempt of court, because the lawyer refused to say the pledge. (The lawyer apparently did stand during the pledge, but didn’t speak.) “Give thanks for your freedom, son, or I’m sending you to jail,” is how Radley Balko (The Agitator) put it.
The judge apparently changed his mind a few hours later, and released the lawyer. I’m happy to say that Tom Freeland (NMissCommentator) was working on an emergency petition for mandamus on the lawyer’s behalf, but that seems to have become moot as a result of the judge’s change of mind.
[UPDATE: Maybe further legal action will indeed be necessary; Judge Littlejohn’s order releasing the lawyer says that “the issue of further incarceration shall be held in abeyance pending further order of this Court.”]
Anywho, I'll step aside from this thread for a while, because I don't see it rising back from the hellhole that it's fallen in to.