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Thread: Any Chance Sound Suppressors Will Go Legal in MI Anytime Soon?

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    Regular Member The Expert's Avatar
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    Any Chance Sound Suppressors Will Go Legal in MI Anytime Soon?

    When I left MI for the Marine Corps in 2000 I remember that Class 3 Weapons were a no-go in this state regardless of how much money you had. A few years after I came back I learned that this had changed. Don't really know why...or how for that matter.

    In any case...I guess suppressors (which are a lot more useful) did not make it over the wire in that jailbreak and are still on the Police-And-Bad-Guy-Only list. Any chance that will change anytime soon? I'd like to build an AR-15 with a suppressor.

    If no, why not?
    I always open carry one of my Kimber 1911 pistols everywhere I go. Usually in a paddle holster. Nothing fancy, but it works for me.

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    Regular Member Yooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Expert View Post
    When I left MI for the Marine Corps in 2000 I remember that Class 3 Weapons were a no-go in this state regardless of how much money you had. A few years after I came back I learned that this had changed. Don't really know why...or how for that matter.

    In any case...I guess suppressors (which are a lot more useful) did not make it over the wire in that jailbreak and are still on the Police-And-Bad-Guy-Only list. Any chance that will change anytime soon? I'd like to build an AR-15 with a suppressor.

    If no, why not?
    Write your elected officials and tell them that you want Michigan to join the list of the majority of states that have laws mirroring federal law, or are silent when it comes to machine guns/suppressors/AOW's and the like.
    Rand Paul 2016

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    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    agreed, but don't hold your breath,,,,i had a nice gemtech blackside suppressor that i had to get rid of when i moved back to MI.
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

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    Michigan Attorney General Mike Cox issued opinion 7183 that made it de-facto legal to own a "machine gun" in Michigan but a similar ruling was not made on suppression devices.

    Sign this petition to get the Michigan AG to issue an official opinion on suppression devices.

    http://www.change.org/petitions/view..._on_mcl_750224

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    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    well an opinion wouldn't matter, theres a difference that allows machine guns to be bought and sold that the supressors don't share. an actual law change would be needed. people have been buying and selling machine guns well before the cox opinion came out.

    personally i would like to see MI fall in line with federal law, so that any C3 item could be transferred here in MI. but unfortunately right now only machine guns and 1 other class 3 item can be legally transferred in MI.

    but i don't think it will happen anytime soon, but i would love to see it,,,,
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHCGRPR45 View Post
    agreed, but don't hold your breath,,,,i had a nice gemtech blackside suppressor that i had to get rid of when i moved back to MI.
    You could have contacted the ATF, then informed them that you were going to store it in a locked container in the state which you were leaving. This can be done with NFA items when moving to occupied america, even when changing state residency and leaving the item(s) at a friends property, or for that matter storage like a safety deposit box or a simpler paid storage facility. The only thing, as I recall, is that the ATF has to be informed, and only the registered owner may have a key to access the item(s).
    Last edited by Michigander; 11-30-2010 at 09:46 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Expert View Post
    When I left MI for the Marine Corps in 2000 I remember that Class 3 Weapons were a no-go in this state regardless of how much money you had. A few years after I came back I learned that this had changed. Don't really know why...or how for that matter.

    In any case...I guess suppressors (which are a lot more useful) did not make it over the wire in that jailbreak and are still on the Police-And-Bad-Guy-Only list. Any chance that will change anytime soon? I'd like to build an AR-15 with a suppressor.

    If no, why not?

    Not to downplay the actions of the treasonous AG who screwed over would be NFA owners, but C&R's, DD's, and AOW's have always been legal here. With full auto's now legal, we have it nearly as good as many states, aside from having to have buttstockless short shotguns, and AOW or handgun type rifles instead of SBR's. Having to seek out C&R cans is perhaps the worst part about being a NFA enthusiast here.

    I personally don't own any, don't have the funds. But if I did, and I actually planned to stay here, which I don't, I'd probably set a goal of getting an integrally suppressed Sten or Sterling, or something similar. And on that note, I wonder how long before those obnoxiously huge and inefficient Sionics cans become C&R...
    Last edited by Michigander; 11-30-2010 at 09:53 PM.
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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    Not to downplay the actions of the treasonous AG who screwed over would be NFA owners, but C&R's, DD's, and AOW's have always been legal here. With full auto's now legal, we have it nearly as good as many states, aside from having to have buttstockless short shotguns, and AOW or handgun type rifles instead of SBR's. Having to seek out C&R cans is perhaps the worst part about being a NFA enthusiast here.

    I personally don't own any, don't have the funds. But if I did, and I actually planned to stay here, which I don't, I'd probably set a goal of getting an integrally suppressed Sten or Sterling, or something similar. And on that note, I wonder how long before those obnoxiously huge and inefficient Sionics cans become C&R...

    Funny thing about suppressors is that in Europe they are quite available, inexpensive, and no one sees them as particularly "dangerous": something that should be tightly controlled. My thought is that the reason that Michigan (and other states) look at these as especially pernicious is that they are considered as only useful for poaching. Since Michigan relies on "deer hunting" as a major source of revenue for the state, they have been banned due to the potential use in poaching. Although the original legal prohibition was also an outcome of attempting to stop organized crime at the national level, my guess is that when people begin to look at firearms more from a self-defensive standpoint rather than a tool for hunting, change will take place. Until that time, though, I think we may be out of luck.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

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    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    You could have contacted the ATF, then informed them that you were going to store it in a locked container in the state which you were leaving. This can be done with NFA items when moving to occupied america, even when changing state residency and leaving the item(s) at a friends property, or for that matter storage like a safety deposit box or a simpler paid storage facility. The only thing, as I recall, is that the ATF has to be informed, and only the registered owner may have a key to access the item(s).
    yes they explained that to me but i just didn't want the cost or headache of storing it outside the state.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    Funny thing about suppressors is that in Europe they are quite available, inexpensive, and no one sees them as particularly "dangerous": something that should be tightly controlled. My thought is that the reason that Michigan (and other states) look at these as especially pernicious is that they are considered as only useful for poaching. Since Michigan relies on "deer hunting" as a major source of revenue for the state, they have been banned due to the potential use in poaching. Although the original legal prohibition was also an outcome of attempting to stop organized crime at the national level, my guess is that when people begin to look at firearms more from a self-defensive standpoint rather than a tool for hunting, change will take place. Until that time, though, I think we may be out of luck.
    agreed a suppressor is just a "can" like a pop can only heavier. its about as dangerous also. by itself it can do no harm, well if it rolled off a table it could ding your toe, but since they are for the most part pretty light it wouldn't hurt to bad.
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    Funny thing about suppressors is that in Europe they are quite available, inexpensive, and no one sees them as particularly "dangerous": something that should be tightly controlled. My thought is that the reason that Michigan (and other states) look at these as especially pernicious is that they are considered as only useful for poaching. Since Michigan relies on "deer hunting" as a major source of revenue for the state, they have been banned due to the potential use in poaching. Although the original legal prohibition was also an outcome of attempting to stop organized crime at the national level, my guess is that when people begin to look at firearms more from a self-defensive standpoint rather than a tool for hunting, change will take place. Until that time, though, I think we may be out of luck.
    I agree, my uncle lives in Europe, and he said in many areas it is considered rude to shoot an unsuppressed firearm. Perhaps we can offer that as a "compromise" to those anti's that want to shut down ranges because of the noise. "Let us have suppressors, which will allow us to shoot, which is what we want, and keep the noise down, which is what you want....problems solved"
    Rand Paul 2016

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    Funny thing about suppressors is that in Europe they are quite available, inexpensive, and no one sees them as particularly "dangerous": something that should be tightly controlled. My thought is that the reason that Michigan (and other states) look at these as especially pernicious is that they are considered as only useful for poaching. Since Michigan relies on "deer hunting" as a major source of revenue for the state, they have been banned due to the potential use in poaching. Although the original legal prohibition was also an outcome of attempting to stop organized crime at the national level, my guess is that when people begin to look at firearms more from a self-defensive standpoint rather than a tool for hunting, change will take place. Until that time, though, I think we may be out of luck.

    I don't know about that, unless you have researched the history of these laws. In my experience looking up legislative history at legal archives, Michigan tends to have its head firmly wedged up its ass when it comes to gun laws, having little more reason than phobia, power hunger and racism for nearly all its gun laws.

    Anyhow, I could be wrong, but my understanding was that they were perfectly legal until Frank Kelly signed our rights away in 1986, in effect banning future registration of full autos, SBRs, SBSs, and suppressors. To be fair, I wasn't alive then and very few people registered NFA guns as is, but this is my understanding. Also note that Bailenforcer has mentioned owning a SBR which he registered before 1986. Again, could be wrong, and I'm counting on you guys to tell me if I am.
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    I don't want to be required nor prohibited from having a suppressed weapon. I like the freedom to have suppressors, but I like the BANG as well.

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    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    I don't know about that, unless you have researched the history of these laws. In my experience looking up legislative history at legal archives, Michigan tends to have its head firmly wedged up its ass when it comes to gun laws, having little more reason than phobia, power hunger and racism for nearly all its gun laws.

    Anyhow, I could be wrong, but my understanding was that they were perfectly legal until Frank Kelly signed our rights away in 1986, in effect banning future registration of full autos, SBRs, SBSs, and suppressors. To be fair, I wasn't alive then and very few people registered NFA guns as is, but this is my understanding. Also note that Bailenforcer has mentioned owning a SBR which he registered before 1986. Again, could be wrong, and I'm counting on you guys to tell me if I am.

    the date of registration is irrelevant SBR, SBS, and suppressors are banned ,illegal, and contraband in MI. per state police. in MI anyone in possesion of such and item can be charged with a crime.
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

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    Just to let you guys know. Many people and I'm part of that group whom have lobbied with Mike Cox for him to make an AG opinion on the subject before he leaves office. It is very plausible that it might take place soon. There is a favorable outlook but you never know.

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    Hi, nice to know you're still around.

    I would rather have an AG about PFZs and OC. Especially regarding OC in a school.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikestilly View Post
    Just to let you guys know. Many people and I'm part of that group whom have lobbied with Mike Cox for him to make an AG opinion on the subject before he leaves office. It is very plausible that it might take place soon. There is a favorable outlook but you never know.
    that would be great,
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHCGRPR45 View Post
    that would be great,
    They may be legal already, if one applies the logic that machine guns are legal if licensed by the Feds:... or am I reading this incorrectly:


    MCL 750.224 Weapons; manufacture, sale, or possession as felony; violation as felony; penalty; exceptions; "muffler" or "silencer" defined.
    Sec. 224.

    (1) A person shall not manufacture, sell, offer for sale, or possess any of the following:

    (a) A machine gun or firearm that shoots or is designed to shoot automatically more than 1 shot without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.

    (b) A muffler or silencer.

    (c) A bomb or bombshell.

    (d) A blackjack, slungshot, billy, metallic knuckles, sand club, sand bag, or bludgeon.

    (e) A device, weapon, cartridge, container, or contrivance designed to render a person temporarily or permanently disabled by the ejection, release, or emission of a gas or other substance.

    (2) A person who violates subsection (1) is guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 5 years, or a fine of not more than $2,500.00, or both.

    (3) Subsection (1) does not apply to any of the following:

    (a) A self-defense spray or foam device as defined in section 224d.

    (b) A person manufacturing firearms, explosives, or munitions of war by virtue of a contract with a department of the government of the United States.

    (c) A person licensed by the secretary of the treasury of the United States or the secretary's delegate to manufacture, sell, or possess a machine gun, or a device, weapon, cartridge, container, or contrivance described in subsection (1).

    (4) As used in this chapter, "muffler" or "silencer" means 1 or more of the following:

    (a) A device for muffling, silencing, or deadening the report of a firearm.

    (b) A combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a muffler or silencer.

    (c) A part, designed or redesigned, and intended only for use in assembling or fabricating a muffler or silencer.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHCGRPR45 View Post
    the date of registration is irrelevant SBR, SBS, and suppressors are banned ,illegal, and contraband in MI. per state police. in MI anyone in possesion of such and item can be charged with a crime.
    It appears you are missing the point. Machine guns, which seem some what banned by state law, were for sure, and I mean absolutely for sure legal to register and own before Frank Kelly made his tyrannical opinion. I have met more than one person who had a registered machine gun before then, and was thus able to keep it.

    Again, suppressors/sbr's/sbs's were banned in a similar way with a nearly identical law, and my understanding is that they were lawfully registered by some before 86, because it was considered a licensing process to NFA register them, right up until Kelly said it wasn't. BailEnforcer stating he has a pre 86 SBR certainly would suggest I am right.
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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    It appears you are missing the point. Machine guns, which seem some what banned by state law, were for sure, and I mean absolutely for sure legal to register and own before Frank Kelly made his tyrannical opinion. I have met more than one person who had a registered machine gun before then, and was thus able to keep it.

    Again, suppressors/sbr's/sbs's were banned in a similar way with a nearly identical law, and my understanding is that they were lawfully registered by some before 86, because it was considered a licensing process to NFA register them, right up until Kelly said it wasn't. BailEnforcer stating he has a pre 86 SBR certainly would suggest I am right.
    But didn't the ag opine that the Feds license machine guns? I don't have the opinion here in front of but using the same logic,anything else licensed by the feds would also be legal.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    Re: 3551 - McElroy
    From:Debra Smith <SmithDE@michigan.gov>

    View ContactTo:shaunmcelroy76@yahoo.com
    Dear Mr. McElroy,
    There are two sections of Michigan law that you should be aware of:

    MCL 750.224b is:

    (1) A person shall not manufacture, sell, offer for sale, or possess a short-barreled shotgun or a short-barreled rifle.

    (2) A person who violates this section is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 5 years or a fine of not more than $2,500.00, or both.

    (3) This section does not apply to the sale, offering for sale, or possession of a short-barreled rifle or a short-barreled shotgun which the secretary of the treasury of the United States of America, or his or her delegate, under 26 USC, sections 5801 through 5872, or 18 USC, sections 921 through 928, has found to be a curio, relic, antique, museum piece, or collector's item not likely to be used as a weapon, but only if the person selling, offering for sale or possessing the firearm has also fully complied with section 2 or 2a of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422 and 28.422a.

    Section 20 of chapter 16 of the code of criminal procedure, 1927 PA 175, MCL 776.20, applies to this subsection.

    Further, MCL 750.231 exempts certain people from the above law:

    Sec. 231.

    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), sections 224, 224a, 224b, 224d, 226a, 227, 227c, and 227d do not apply to any of the following:

    (a) A peace officer of an authorized police agency of the United States, of this state, or of a political subdivision of this state, who is regularly employed and paid by the United States, this state, or a political subdivision of this state.

    (b) A person who is regularly employed by the state department of corrections and who is authorized in writing by the director of the department of corrections to carry a concealed weapon while in the official performance of his or her duties or while going to or returning from those duties.

    (c) A person employed by a private vendor that operates a youth correctional facility authorized under section 20g of 1953 PA 232, MCL 791.220g, who meets the same criteria established by the director of the state department of corrections for departmental employees described in subdivision (b) and who is authorized in writing by the director of the department of corrections to carry a concealed weapon while in the official performance of his or her duties or while going to or returning from those duties.

    (d) A member of the United States army, air force, navy, or marine corps or the United States coast guard while carrying weapons in the line of or incidental to duty.

    (e) An organization authorized by law to purchase or receive weapons from the United States or from this state.

    (f) A member of the national guard, armed forces reserve, the United States coast guard reserve, or any other authorized military organization while on duty or drill, or in going to or returning from a place of assembly or practice, while carrying weapons used for a purpose of the national guard, armed forces reserve, United States coast guard reserve, or other duly authorized military organization.

    (g) A security employee employed by the state and granted limited arrest powers under section 6c of 1935 PA 59, MCL 28.6c.

    (h) A motor carrier officer appointed under section 6d of 1935 PA 59, MCL 28.6d.

    (2) As applied to section 224a(1) only, subsection (1) is not applicable to an individual included under subsection (1)(a), (b), or (c) unless he or she has been trained on the use, effects, and risks of using a portable device or weapon described in section 224a(1).
    -------------------------
    So, unless the firearm falls under the exemption in (3) of 750.224b or the owner falls under any of the exemptions in 750.231, it is unlawful to possess a SBR in this state. The Michigan Attorney General ruled on possession of fully automatic weapons, in which case the gun had to be licensed with ATF prior to 1986 in order to qualify for Michigan's exemption. I am not aware of the 1986 date applying to the possession of short-barreled rifles, unless that is a Federal requirement in order for them to transfer.

    Sincerely,

    Debra Smith, Manager
    Firearms Records Unit
    Michigan State Police



    >>> <MSPWeb@michigan.gov> 12/2/2010 5:08 PM >>>
    f01Name: Shaun L. McElroy
    f02Address:
    f03City: macomb twp
    f04State: MI
    f05Zipcode:
    f06phonenumber:
    f07emailaddress:
    f08Question: my question refers to a SBR or short barreled rifle. is there anyway to own a SBR in MI. for instance say i lived in a state that allowed ownership of SBR's and it was properly registered with the ATF and moved to MI, would that be legal? also i heard that any SBR registered in MI prior to 1986 would be grandfathered due to an opinion by Frank Kelly then an AG.

    this should clear up the SBS SBR question
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

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    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    Full View Re: 3551 - McElroy


    From:Debra Smith <SmithDE@michigan.gov>

    View ContactTo:Shaun McElroy <shaunmcelroy76@yahoo.com>


    Not unless it is a curio or relic, like the Marble Game Getter. So, generally, the answer is no.

    Debra Smith, Manager
    Firearms Records Unit
    Michigan State Police

    >>> Shaun McElroy <shaunmcelroy76@yahoo.com> 12/4/2010 6:08 PM >>>
    so there is no way a civilian could posses a SBR in this state? even if it has
    been registered with the ATF?


    follow up question,,
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

    Michigan Concealed Pistol Instructor. Cost 80.00 With advanced techniques included free. PM for more information!

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