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Thread: With Regards to Rights

  1. #1
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    With Regards to Rights

    I have decided to create a blog with my adventures in open carry on it. I have done this not because I plan to participate any less on this forum (hopefully quite the opposite!), but because I am trying to get organized. I have been getting more and more people who want to read more about my issues, including the New Haven Advocate writer (Betsy Yagla) who could have really benefited from having all the facts right in one easy to search place.

    A lot of the material I will be posting will either be lifted from here (from my old posts) or will be cross posted (in the case of future informational posts).

    If you have constructive criticism for me on this, please let me know. I would prefer through PM or via the site, only so we don't make a lot of unnecessary noise here.

    As part of this effort, I am looking to try and find a way to finance litigation in the cases I currently have. I was recently contacted by an attorney and they expressed interest in working with me, and we seem to have a lot of the same ideas about getting some good base suits like these working and then going after bigger fish. I actually hope to be able to seed some cases and maybe get to the point where we can fund other people's cases as well, since I am certainly not the only one getting my rights violated in this state. It does seem that we need to win a case or two first. I say we don't wait around, I say we start now.

    In that light, I have added a donation button to the site. Any donations I receive will be applied to getting this process started. I cannot guarantee anything about how far we can make this go yet, but I am certain we can at least make a dent.

    http://withregardstorights.org
    Last edited by Rich B; 11-08-2010 at 09:19 PM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    Is this just for your cases or will you allow others to use the site as a central repository of information?

    Seems like it would be a good spot to post multiple "incident" reports as well as links to what our rights really are in this state.

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KIX View Post
    Is this just for your cases or will you allow others to use the site as a central repository of information?

    Seems like it would be a good spot to post multiple "incident" reports as well as links to what our rights really are in this state.

    Jonathan
    This is exactly the idea behind the site. The long term goal of the site is to serve as a place for people with stories of rights violations to be able to tell their story. The other long term goal is to set up a fund that we can finance strategic lawsuits from that will start teaching these abusers a lesson. By no means is the site solely a repository for my stories.

    It seems that for right now, the easiest way to get started is to get this together and go after some of my cases as 'seed cases' that may hopefully help finance other, bigger and more important cases.

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    Is your site down? I viewed it once but now the link doesn't work.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by larch View Post
    Is your site down? I viewed it once but now the link doesn't work.
    Indeed it was. Sorry about that. Had some issues with it today, thought I left it in good shape before I went to the CCDL meeting, but I guess I was wrong.

    Should work now.

    Still has a few interesting issues, but nothing that should prevent your viewing.

  6. #6
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    Pay pal doesn't work. I click on the link and it does..... nada.

    Gonna put my ten bucks in..... see how many others do!

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KIX View Post
    Pay pal doesn't work. I click on the link and it does..... nada.

    Gonna put my ten bucks in..... see how many others do!

    Jonathan
    I am actually taking the donate button down for a bit. I appreciate your (and everyone's) enthusiasm, but I have a couple ideas rolling around my head from tonight.

    Once I solidify a few things I will be in touch with where I am going. The last thing I want to do is take anyone's money before I have a clear plan.
    Last edited by Rich B; 11-09-2010 at 11:25 PM.

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    Thumbs up

    Rich B website looking pretty good. (for starter). keep up the work. slowly but surely.

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    I haven't had a chance to view the site as of yet. On that note:

    With just what I have read I'm thinking you might want to get together with Ed and his site. He has collected a lot of information about cases. Could help it be a CT focal for legal information on rights without the legal charge of a lawyer.

    Just a thought. I'll be viewing your site later tonight. So far I have to give you much respect for everything you are attempting as I don't know if I could be in your shoes.

    So, THANK YOU!

  10. #10
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbnlnk121 View Post
    With just what I have read I'm thinking you might want to get together with Ed and his site. He has collected a lot of information about cases. Could help it be a CT focal for legal information on rights without the legal charge of a lawyer.
    I cannot disagree with you, but Ed has a lot of information and he has different (broader) subjects he is addressing. I certainly link to his site from mine, and it may certainly be possible to link the sites together more going forward, but I think for now they serve separate purposes, so they are ok being separate sites.

    I think both sites will end up having a lot of duplicate information, but I don't see this as a problem necessarily.

    Certainly something to think about going forward...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    I have decided to create a blog with my adventures in open carry on it. I have done this not because I plan to participate any less on this forum (hopefully quite the opposite!), but because I am trying to get organized. I have been getting more and more people who want to read more about my issues, including the New Haven Advocate writer (Betsy Yagla) who could have really benefited from having all the facts right in one easy to search place.

    A lot of the material I will be posting will either be lifted from here (from my old posts) or will be cross posted (in the case of future informational posts).

    If you have constructive criticism for me on this, please let me know. I would prefer through PM or via the site, only so we don't make a lot of unnecessary noise here.

    As part of this effort, I am looking to try and find a way to finance litigation in the cases I currently have. I was recently contacted by an attorney and they expressed interest in working with me, and we seem to have a lot of the same ideas about getting some good base suits like these working and then going after bigger fish. I actually hope to be able to seed some cases and maybe get to the point where we can fund other people's cases as well, since I am certainly not the only one getting my rights violated in this state. It does seem that we need to win a case or two first. I say we don't wait around, I say we start now.

    In that light, I have added a donation button to the site. Any donations I receive will be applied to getting this process started. I cannot guarantee anything about how far we can make this go yet, but I am certain we can at least make a dent.

    http://withregardstorights.org

    Rich B.
    I am new to OC in CT. However, I was quite succesfull in advocating OC and 2nd ammendment rights in Maine. As co-founder and public speaker for the Maine Open Carry Association, I have extensive legal experience regarding the 2nd ammendment, as well as countless hours of small arms training. I would be very interested in continueing my work with OC and protecting the freedoms of Americans as a CT citizen as well. Please let me know what I can do to help with regards to OC here in CT. I am aware that CT is a legal OC state although our rights are frequently raped my the general public's twisted, fearful and ignorant response.

    You can find out some of the work that I participated in up in Maine by visiting www.maineopencarry.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by KIX View Post
    Is this just for your cases or will you allow others to use the site as a central repository of information?

    Seems like it would be a good spot to post multiple "incident" reports as well as links to what our rights really are in this state.

    Jonathan
    I would caution against hosting anything purporting to interpret law or which could in any way be construed to provide legal advice and if it's questionable qualify it clearly and repeatedly as opinion. Hosting your own site has different responsibilities than posting relatively anonymously on the internet.

    Good luck, keep up the good efforts.

  13. #13
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emsjeep View Post
    I would caution against hosting anything purporting to interpret law or which could in any way be construed to provide legal advice and if it's questionable qualify it clearly and repeatedly as opinion. Hosting your own site has different responsibilities than posting relatively anonymously on the internet.

    Good luck, keep up the good efforts.
    I don't get what you are trying to point out here.

    A central repository of accounts throughout the state is nowhere near legal advice.

    Pointing people to information, or the state statues is not advice. You can easily put a disclaimer on the site that would shield you from any issues.

    It is done all the time, everywhere on the web. The web is the best place for us to share such information as we clearly aren't going to get any major media or government support on the issues at hand.

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KIX View Post
    I don't get what you are trying to point out here.

    A central repository of accounts throughout the state is nowhere near legal advice.

    Pointing people to information, or the state statues is not advice. You can easily put a disclaimer on the site that would shield you from any issues.

    It is done all the time, everywhere on the web. The web is the best place for us to share such information as we clearly aren't going to get any major media or government support on the issues at hand.

    Jonathan
    Well said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KIX View Post
    I don't get what you are trying to point out here.

    A central repository of accounts throughout the state is nowhere near legal advice.

    Pointing people to information, or the state statues is not advice. You can easily put a disclaimer on the site that would shield you from any issues.

    It is done all the time, everywhere on the web. The web is the best place for us to share such information as we clearly aren't going to get any major media or government support on the issues at hand.

    Jonathan
    Why are you people so confrontational?

    This is what you said:
    Quote Originally Posted by KIX View Post
    Is this just for your cases or will you allow others to use the site as a central repository of information?

    Seems like it would be a good spot to post multiple "incident" reports as well as links to what our rights really are in this state.

    Jonathan
    Please tell me how one advises people of their rights? Posting links to the statutes in general? Citing and linking to statutes where you think appropriate to the incident? Posting accounts of interactions where you relay your interpretations of the law to interacting officers? Linking to someone else's questionable legal interpretation? You need to be careful, and not just for your own sake with a general disclaimer, but for the sake of otherwise poorly informed readers.
    Last edited by emsjeep; 11-11-2010 at 09:33 AM.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emsjeep View Post
    Why are you people so confrontational?
    I think everyone here has been pretty polite and professional to you so far especially considering you are stepping into a forum where people have been working very hard for years now and just spreading FUD.

    So, what is your endgame?

    Do you only plan to spend your time here making vague accusations against people here and trying to stir up doubt and fear? We already have personnel for that, that is who we are fighting against. Are you going to work towards a solution to any of the 'problems' you seem to be seeing here? Create a site, create a reference that shows people the way.

    All I have seen so far from you is that you keep saying the same thing over and over:
    "You guys are wrong because it may not go your way in court!"

    If you want to promote yourself as the legal expert you are claiming to be, you are going to need to spend some time reading the forum and getting to know people here. You are also going to need to do something other than just trying to stir trouble. That will only get you on the ignore list.

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    Good job on the website and providing all the info in one place!

  18. #18
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emsjeep View Post
    Why are you people so confrontational?
    Not confrontational at all. I think my answer was clear without being confrontational at all.

    I just find it odd when people are on an open carry forum (not just on this thread) but often make comments about something that has the ability to really help our cause. Using your logic, this site shouldn't exist because thre is TONS of information on what is, isn't legal and the purveyors of this site could be at risk.

    I don't think we should just sit around with our hands in our pockets, whistle a tune and think things will "automagically" change on their own.

    If there is any way I can use the first amendment, to help me protect the rights of our second amendment, I sure as hell will take advantage of it.

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    I think everyone here has been pretty polite and professional to you so far especially considering you are stepping into a forum where people have been working very hard for years now and just spreading FUD.

    So, what is your endgame?

    Do you only plan to spend your time here making vague accusations against people here and trying to stir up doubt and fear? We already have personnel for that, that is who we are fighting against. Are you going to work towards a solution to any of the 'problems' you seem to be seeing here? Create a site, create a reference that shows people the way.

    All I have seen so far from you is that you keep saying the same thing over and over:
    "You guys are wrong because it may not go your way in court!"

    If you want to promote yourself as the legal expert you are claiming to be, you are going to need to spend some time reading the forum and getting to know people here. You are also going to need to do something other than just trying to stir trouble. That will only get you on the ignore list.
    And you are somehow right because you are wrong more often and over a longer period? I don't think you are wrong because it won't go your way in court, I think you push what should be as what is and fail to make the distinction clear. You are DANGEROUS because it may not go your way in court. Your perspective is dangerous to trusting practitioners, fails to acknowledge the negative possibilities, and puts people who want to advance the cause correctly and safely (which IS possible) in jeopardy of assuming risks that are beyond those with which they would be comfortable if they were properly advised of the risks.

    I'm not attempting to make vague accusations; I'll be direct. I'm here policing up your vague and suspect legal opinions because they are in doubt, because they are vague and because they are dangerous. I admire your conviction, but you can't be wrong vehemently enough to make up for the fact that you are wrong. You paint a picture, deliberately, that OC is legal in this state, that detention for OC is unquestionably illegal because you think that if you say it enough times it will be true....the factual basis isn't there, or you haven't shown it to me yet. You lie, intentionally to an audience you believe to be sympathetic in an effort to advance your cause. I call BS, things are not as simple as you say they are and you shouldn't tell people that they are. My endgame is to promulgate the truth, the conservative truth, that keeps people who want to practice their rights safe and informed. You aren't going to win unquestionable OC rights on a foundation of lies.

    I don't need to read the forum to look at the applicable law and to cast doubt on the absolutes you put out there. Also, just because I didn't post doesn't mean I wasn't here a year before you. I don't purport to be a legal expert, and I don't need to, all I need to do, and all I intend to do is to cast doubt on the validity of your inflexible assertions by proposing alternate and fact based interpretations.

    Someone with a good, fact based understanding of their position should love a good, well-reasoned challenge, all you do it say, "No, your wrong, I'm right." Ok...that may make you feel better, but I don't even need to respond to point out the ridiculousness of your baseless arguments to the poor readers that come across them.

    Do whatever you want, I'll make fact based arguments, you do what you want, but you don't get to do it without question. Is there enough room for me and your superiority complex on the internet? Its quite clear that you both don't give two ***** about anyone else's opinion and that you are beyond question, so, whatever....nothing left for me to argue.
    Last edited by emsjeep; 11-11-2010 at 02:23 PM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by KIX View Post
    Not confrontational at all. I think my answer was clear without being confrontational at all.

    I just find it odd when people are on an open carry forum (not just on this thread) but often make comments about something that has the ability to really help our cause. Using your logic, this site shouldn't exist because thre is TONS of information on what is, isn't legal and the purveyors of this site could be at risk.

    I don't think we should just sit around with our hands in our pockets, whistle a tune and think things will "automagically" change on their own.

    If there is any way I can use the first amendment, to help me protect the rights of our second amendment, I sure as hell will take advantage of it.

    Jonathan
    I have no problem with the cause, I have no problem with the forum, but when you cease to be anonymous you risk people holding you accountable for the advice that you give if it can be construed to be more than just your opinion. I like what Rich does, I want him to continue to do what he does, but 1) I don't want people to act on interpretations of law on which serious doubt can be cast and 2) I don't want those people to hold Rich responsible for the trouble they get into.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emsjeep View Post
    I don't need to read the forum to look at the applicable law and to cast doubt on the absolutes you put out there.
    And yet, you don't. You just disagree and never cite that law that 'casts doubt' despite being challenged several times to do so. On the other hand, I am actually practicing what I preach, and I have been successful in it.

    all I intend to do is to cast doubt on the validity of your inflexible assertions by proposing alternate and fact based interpretations.
    Facts don't derive from "nuh uh!". But I am glad you are admitting your purpose to create FUD.

    Someone with a good, fact based understanding of their position should love a good, well-reasoned challenge
    Indeed I do like a well reasoned debate. I have yet to see one from you though.

    I'll make fact based arguments
    I tend to believe that everyone here is still waiting for you to do so.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emsjeep View Post
    interpretations of law on which serious doubt can be cast
    Citation needed.

  23. #23
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    Rich,
    I can't get the audio from the OSPD where you picked up the complaint form, to work.

    Is it me or is it your link?

    Don

  24. #24
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcmdon View Post
    Rich,
    I can't get the audio from the OSPD where you picked up the complaint form, to work.

    Is it me or is it your link?

    Don
    Yes, something seemed to go wrong with the post attachment. You shouldn't have a problem now.

  25. #25
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    Thanks, it worked fine. Boy he backed right down when you refused ID.

    Were you open carrying into the PD? Or is the building marked?
    Last edited by dcmdon; 11-11-2010 at 03:51 PM.

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