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With Regards to Rights

Rich B

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
Messages
2,909
Location
North Branford, Connecticut, USA
I don't need to read the forum to look at the applicable law and to cast doubt on the absolutes you put out there.

And yet, you don't. You just disagree and never cite that law that 'casts doubt' despite being challenged several times to do so. On the other hand, I am actually practicing what I preach, and I have been successful in it.

all I intend to do is to cast doubt on the validity of your inflexible assertions by proposing alternate and fact based interpretations.

Facts don't derive from "nuh uh!". But I am glad you are admitting your purpose to create FUD.

Someone with a good, fact based understanding of their position should love a good, well-reasoned challenge

Indeed I do like a well reasoned debate. I have yet to see one from you though.

I'll make fact based arguments

I tend to believe that everyone here is still waiting for you to do so.
 

dcmdon

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
469
Location
Old Saybrook, CT
Rich,
I can't get the audio from the OSPD where you picked up the complaint form, to work.

Is it me or is it your link?

Don
 

dcmdon

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
469
Location
Old Saybrook, CT
Thanks, it worked fine. Boy he backed right down when you refused ID.

Were you open carrying into the PD? Or is the building marked?
 
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Rich B

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
Messages
2,909
Location
North Branford, Connecticut, USA
Thanks, it worked fine. Boy he backed right down when you refused ID.

Were you open carrying into the PD? Or is the building marked?

I saw nothing prohibiting it in ordinances or otherwise, but I had unarmed in the car. I don't like the mess of being searched and seized should they decide to take you into a back room to type up your complaint or something.
 

KIX

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Messages
960
Location
, ,
All I'm going to say on this is......

1. I have no problem with a debate. Actually, one of the best ways to learn is a good debate. Quite frankly, I haven't seen any FACTS regarding posting information, etc. The web is the great equalizer here and useful. I'd also like to see a map (I'm willing to help with this) with incident reports. It's not to educate someone on the law, it's to educate the masses on towns where there have been issues. Just what Rich's site can be really good for.

2. If I'm wrong, prove it. Otherwise, I'm going to go based on my 15 years of internet management, hosting and form management speak for me. I'm not a lawyer, but I do have a couple years law, and much more in contract management and know how to read law. In all the sites I manage, there have been much more controversial sites/topics than this one and we are more than safe. Look at Rich's examples, he uses their own words and posts them. There's no interpretation there. Ed Peruta is another example, he posts the actual court documents, again.... use their own words but this time under oath.

Again, (because I like the word) the problem isn't going to "automagically" fix itself. We need to get together, pool our resources and experience and create a viable movement to keep or increase our 2A rights here in CT.

As individuals, we can do little. But if we all can get together as one voice on 2A rights...... we can achieve much more. E pluribus unum.

Jonathan
 

emsjeep

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2008
Messages
210
Location
NY-CT
And yet, you don't. You just disagree and never cite that law that 'casts doubt' despite being challenged several times to do so. On the other hand, I am actually practicing what I preach, and I have been successful in it.

Yeah, you must have missed the complex statutory analysis and the handful of actual cases I've posted multiple times...yeah that just never happened...all those hours in the library must have been some sort of subdued acid flashback. What are you going to tell me next water isn't wet?
 

cbnlnk121

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
49
Location
, Connecticut, USA
Yeah, you must have missed the complex statutory analysis and the handful of actual cases I've posted multiple times...yeah that just never happened...all those hours in the library must have been some sort of subdued acid flashback. What are you going to tell me next water isn't wet?

So glad to see at least one of you stayed mature about this discussion. Was there even a need for this? All others have asked for is where you got the information from. If you spent all that time then you should be able to spit out those sources.

Hate to say this but water isn't wet. ;)
 

emsjeep

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2008
Messages
210
Location
NY-CT
So glad to see at least one of you stayed mature about this discussion. Was there even a need for this? All others have asked for is where you got the information from. If you spent all that time then you should be able to spit out those sources.

Hate to say this but water isn't wet. ;)

Everything so far is here: http://www.ctguntalk.com/testforum/YaBB.pl?num=1282748123/60
and here: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...our-Permit-Thoughts-on-drivers-license./page2

If you don't care to read it...not my fault. Perhaps you haven't seen it, but the people here, blatantly misrepresenting what has thus far transpired have both read and responded to the evidence that they claim was never posted. I am sorry that they have misled you.

Additionally, State v. Zapadka, 873 A.2d 270 (Conn.Super. 2004) finds that the general and unqualified purpose of Section 29-35 is to “to restrict the possession of unlicensed handguns in the public sphere.” Not concealed possession, not open possession, not possession in a vehicle, simply [public] possession. A license is required, in this state, for all forms of carry and possession [in the public sphere]. 29-38 (weapons in vehicles) violations are joint and subsidiary to 29-35 violations and the appeals courts have recently upheld cases factually similar to Lizotte and Williams supra (that is, people in possession of handguns in vehicles) where they have been charged and convicted of both 29-35 and 29-38 for simple possession in the vehicle. State v. Slade, 905 A.2d 689 (Conn.App. 2006). "Testimony that the revolver found underneath seat of vehicle occupied by defendant was loaded, the hammer cocked, and the revolver was a double action revolver, was sufficiently relevant to be admissible in trial for carrying a pistol or revolver without a permit, possession of a weapon in a motor vehicle, and criminal possession of a revolver; testimony helped establish knowledge, carrying, and possession elements contained in the offenses. C.G.S.A. §§ 29-35(a), 29-38(a)."

On the other hand, here is something you may be interested in, seeing as I have to do all of your research for you:
State v. Wylie, 525 A.2d 528 (Conn.App. 1987).
"While the mere fact that an officer has been informed that a person is carrying a weapon may not of itself constitute grounds to frisk that person, in light of the fact that it is not illegal to carry a weapon with a permit, the defendant's flight and subsequent movements concerning the weapon would make it reasonable for the officer to consider him “dangerous.” See Adams v. Williams, 407 U.S. 143, 153, 92 S.Ct. 1921, 1926, 32 L.Ed.2d 612 (1972)."
By no means conclusive, it is dicta, but a good point to start, if you ever intend on doing any actual research.

I'm not here to prove one side or the other, I want the truth, or the most likely and most correct representation of it. Hence, I am more than happy to post opposing evidence I find in the course of research...what actual work have you done?

However the court in Wylie also says:
"What might be unreasonable when an officer merely suspects that a minor offense has been committed is not unreasonable when, as here, officers have reason to fear that a suspected criminal is armed. The nature of the crime under investigation, the degree of suspicion, the location of the stop, the time of day, the reaction of the suspect to the approach of police are all facts which bear on the issue of reasonableness.” Where the "degree of suspicion" in open carry is knowledge to a near and absolute certainty, the balance is further tipped in this test.
State v. Hernandez, W.L. 5863243 (Conn. Super. 2004).

The only point in this is that your right to OC and your rights while OC'ing aren't necessarily protected to any substantial degree...so be warned and be careful in making your INFORMED choice to OC.
 
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cbnlnk121

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
49
Location
, Connecticut, USA
Everything so far is here: http://www.ctguntalk.com/testforum/YaBB.pl?num=1282748123/60
and here: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...our-Permit-Thoughts-on-drivers-license./page2

....
The only point in this is that your right to OC and your rights while OC'ing aren't necessarily protected to any substantial degree...so be warned and be careful in making your INFORMED choice to OC.


Informed? If you took the time to read everything you just posted you would see that they apply to WiITHOUT A PERMIT. It still remains you have to prove why the CT laws are NOT allowing OC. Simply put it's a permit to carry. That means OC or CC are legal per the word of the law.
 

emsjeep

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2008
Messages
210
Location
NY-CT
Informed? If you took the time to read everything you just posted you would see that they apply to WiITHOUT A PERMIT. It still remains you have to prove why the CT laws are NOT allowing OC. Simply put it's a permit to carry. That means OC or CC are legal per the word of the law.

One, permit status is determined after the fact, because of that, the ultimate permit status of the defendant has no relevance. Two, I never said OC was illegal, thats not the issue here in any way whatsoever, I said that you may be lawfully detained until your permit status is ascertained.
 
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dcmdon

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
469
Location
Old Saybrook, CT
EMS,

While you are clearly an intelligent person, it appears that your understanding of the subtlety of CT law is either shallow or flawed.

Your misstating of a very very basic item : "A license is required, in this state, for all forms of carry and possession."

reveals a general lack of understanding.

A "permit to carry pistols and revolvers" or and eligibility certificate is NOT required for possession of handguns.

So while I do not have time to parse everything you wrote at this point in time, and I do intend to read it, this HUGE error just jumps out at me.

Don
 

dcmdon

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
469
Location
Old Saybrook, CT
Informed? If you took the time to read everything you just posted you would see that they apply to WiITHOUT A PERMIT. It still remains you have to prove why the CT laws are NOT allowing OC. Simply put it's a permit to carry. That means OC or CC are legal per the word of the law.

In fairness EMSJeep is not arguing that OC is illegal, he appears to be simply arguing that a terry stop may be legal if a LEO encounters a law abiding OCer.

Big difference.
 

emsjeep

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2008
Messages
210
Location
NY-CT
EMS,

While you are clearly an intelligent person, it appears that your understanding of the subtlety of CT law is either shallow or flawed.

Your misstating of a very very basic item : "A license is required, in this state, for all forms of carry and possession."

reveals a general lack of understanding.

A "permit to carry pistols and revolvers" or and eligibility certificate is NOT required for possession of handguns.

So while I do not have time to parse everything you wrote at this point in time, and I do intend to read it, this HUGE error just jumps out at me.

Don

You're correct, I should have been more clear, I meant to say, "A license is required, in this state, for all forms of carry and possession [in the public sphere]." Which is the language used by the courts. I'll cite to my previous post: State v. Zapadka, 873 A.2d 270 (Conn.Super. 2004) finds that the general and unqualified purpose of Section 29-35 is to “to restrict the possession of unlicensed handguns in the public sphere,” supra. I am well aware, I once owned handguns in this state without having been issued a permit. The other exception is when transferring household property from one residence to another which is the provision I availed myself of when coming to this state.
 
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emsjeep

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2008
Messages
210
Location
NY-CT
Handguns are neither licensed nor registered in CT.

No, individuals are licensed...but maybe the court really believed that handguns were animate objects capable of receiving licenses (permits) from the State and these aren't just meaningless games of semantics.
 
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