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Thread: What is the Legal definition of private property?

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    Regular Member Master Control's Avatar
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    Question What is the Legal definition of private property?

    after much talk about the cici's event in another thread, is there such a thing as "Private Property"

    Law.com Dictionary / private property
    n. land not owned by the government or dedicated to public use.


    Legal Explanations.com /Private Property

    n.It is a system to allocate the ownership of pieces of land to particular people,who exercise full control on it without the society or the government having any ownership or legal right unlike common property.

    Kentucky Secretary of State / Private Property - land that is owned by a particular person or persons and not designated for public use.
    What is Michigan's Legal Definition of "Private Property"?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GP1Wgkh5MeE
    "Liberty's too precious a thing to be buried in books...Men should hold it up in front of them every single day of their lives and say: 'I'm free to think and to speak. My ancestors couldn't. I can. And my children will."
    ,,, So Mote Be


    Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.-- JC

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    But with rent, as in my case, where does a landlords rights start or stop, and a tenants rights start or stop?

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    But with rent, as in my case, where does a landlords rights start or stop, and a tenants rights start or stop?
    You signed a piece of paper. I'd start there. Don't like what you signed? Move.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Let's start with dictionary.com:

    pri·vate [prahy-vit]
    -adjective
    1. belonging to some particular person: private property.

    I'd therefore put forth my definition of private property:

    Land in the county register if deeds that is titled to any other entity than a government.

    Let's say it's a McDonalds. McDonald's is a public place. If I own it, I can make it a non-public place by closing it or tearing down the building. I can't exercise that authority over public property unless I am in the appropriate government leadership.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Let's start with dictionary.com:

    pri·vate [prahy-vit]
    -adjective
    1. belonging to some particular person: private property.

    I'd therefore put forth my definition of private property:

    Land in the county register if deeds that is titled to any other entity than a government.

    Let's say it's a McDonalds. McDonald's is a public place. If I own it, I can make it a non-public place by closing it or tearing down the building. I can't exercise that authority over public property unless I am in the appropriate government leadership.
    You didn't watch the video, did you?

    *scratches head*
    All opinions posted on opencarry.org are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of opencarry.org or Michigan Open Carry Inc.

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    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    Btw, thank you for this Master Control.

    This is exactly what I'm talking about... a place like McDonalds is a quasi 'sort of public, sort of private' property which is really not exactly one or the other. I guess also known as 'common property'.

    This is exactly why I rest my case that I did no, or at the minimum, very little wrong in the CiCi's incident.
    Last edited by malignity; 11-09-2010 at 10:18 AM.
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    [QUOTE=TheQ;1396780]You signed a piece of paper. I'd start there. Don't like what you signed? Move.[/QUOTE

    I didn't sign what they ate attempting to subvert the law with.

    If I could do things the way they do, I would be rich, I would get an object, sell it to a very rich man for a low price, then post a note on his door telling him that I had changed the price, and would legally bankrupt him if he refused to pay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    But with rent, as in my case, where does a landlords rights start or stop, and a tenants rights start or stop?
    How is rent different from taxes imposed by the only 'landlord' legally empowered to collect 'rent' at the point of the sheriff's gun?

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    How is rent different from taxes imposed by the only 'landlord' legally empowered to collect 'rent' at the point of the sheriff's gun?
    You aren't titled the land you rent.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Tell you all what. Next time your asked to leave -- for any reason -- just stay. We'll all be watching you as a test case to your theories.

    Don't want to risk it? Afraid the courts may disagree? Risk too big?

    Then shut up...
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member Coded-Dude's Avatar
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    curious as to why they didn't highlight california as open carry legal....
    If guns cause crime.....mine must be defective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    You aren't titled the land you rent.
    Begs the meaning, modus ponens affirming the antecedent, of 'title'.

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    Regular Member CharleyMarbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Tell you all what. Next time your asked to leave -- for any reason -- just stay. We'll all be watching you as a test case to your theories.

    Don't want to risk it? Afraid the courts may disagree? Risk too big?

    Then shut up...
    WOW ! ! Hey Q chill man ? No reason to get all bent about it I tend to agree everyone has to make thair own decision as to just how far they are willing to go for their rights. Hell I went around the world half of it with a rifle in my hand but to each their own. Truth be told if asked today to make that decision I would in a minuet but it sure wouldn't be as easy as it was when I was a young single kid trying to figure out what to do next

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    Regular Member Coded-Dude's Avatar
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    I think the argument is; what (if any) is the legal difference between private property and privately owned property that is open to the general public.
    If guns cause crime.....mine must be defective.

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    Regular Member CharleyMarbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coded-Dude View Post
    curious as to why they didn't highlight california as open carry legal....
    Cause it's not realy open cary if you have to cary EMPTY ! ! ! ! !

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    Regular Member CharleyMarbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coded-Dude View Post
    I think the argument is; what (if any) is the legal difference between private property and privately owned property that is open to the general public.
    And I think the Judge cleared that up nicely "if it's open to the public you don't surender ANY rights"

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    Regular Member Coded-Dude's Avatar
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    yes, but there are property owners and patrons who would disagree with that. I agree that any privately owned property that is open to the general public should not be allowed to deprive another of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." If you want to infringe on people's rights close your doors to the public and require membership.
    Last edited by Coded-Dude; 11-09-2010 at 01:12 PM.
    If guns cause crime.....mine must be defective.

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    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    You did well at Cici's .

    You could walk on water, move the moon with a shout, part the Oceans and there will still be idiots on this site telling you that you did it all wrong and they can do it better.


    Remember the words to that old song "anything you can do, I can do better"....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JY7Hh5PzELo

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfHBPusZg6E


    Quote Originally Posted by malignity View Post
    Btw, thank you for this Master Control.

    This is exactly what I'm talking about... a place like McDonalds is a quasi 'sort of public, sort of private' property which is really not exactly one or the other. I guess also known as 'common property'.

    This is exactly why I rest my case that I did no, or at the minimum, very little wrong in the CiCi's incident.
    Last edited by Bailenforcer; 11-09-2010 at 01:38 PM.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

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    I was asked to put my firearm in my car while returning an item at Lakeside Mall yesterday. Pretty clearly open to the public, quite clearly private property in my opinion....so I left. Didn't want criminal trespass on my record.

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    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    Watch the Judge Napolitano video he posted t is clearly not private if it is a store or public venue. Read the legal descriptions of private property they agree with the Judges statements. How many times must some be told, proven to before they finally let go of wrong headed notions? Sometimes this site gets to the point that a few here are afraid to admit error. This kind of pride is deadly, dangerous and disastrous to our rights.

    Private property is owned by a natural born person and not for public use. It's really a simple concept and we don't need idiots from the Bar association to tell us what's obvious, and I will add that we should remember the 100 Lawyers from the Bar association say we have NO 2nd amendment rights that it is a right of the Militia only. Over the years I have heard a few hundred BAR Members say this. They are traitors for the most part and am betting very few would back us..

    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    I was asked to put my firearm in my car while returning an item at Lakeside Mall yesterday. Pretty clearly open to the public, quite clearly private property in my opinion....so I left. Didn't want criminal trespass on my record.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Here's my personal opinion (no law justification provided -- but ones do exist, only the opinion if me, Dr. Rand Paul, and Dr. Ron Paul):

    A person holding (owning, managing) any privately owned (individual, corporation, business, privately owned public accommodation) has the natural right to eject anyone for any reason -- including but not limited to:

    *Their Race
    *Their hair color/style
    *Dress choices
    *Freckles

    This view is controversial, no, I'm not a racist. If I found out about a business with such a policy, me nor my house would patronize that business. I believe having that policy is their right as not doing business with them is mine.

    I know Harem -- a night club in Lansing -- has and enforces a dress code.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  22. #22
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bailenforcer View Post
    Watch the Judge Napolitano video he posted t is clearly not private if it is a store or public venue. Read the legal descriptions of private property they agree with the Judges statements. How many times must some be told, proven to before they finally let go of wrong headed notions? Sometimes this site gets to the point that a few here are afraid to admit error. This kind of pride is deadly, dangerous and disastrous to our rights.

    Private property is owned by a natural born person and not for public use. It's really a simple concept and we don't need idiots from the Bar association to tell us what's obvious, and I will add that we should remember the 100 Lawyers from the Bar association say we have NO 2nd amendment rights that it is a right of the Militia only. Over the years I have heard a few hundred BAR Members say this. They are traitors for the most part and am betting very few would back us..
    Don your loaded riffle and walk into Total Firearms then. When they tell you to leave, refuse. When the Sheriff shows up to escort you out, refuse. If they let you go after they haul you outside, go back in.

    Hey man, it's your right.

    Let me know what happens...
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Master Control's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Tell you all what. Next time your asked to leave -- for any reason -- just stay. We'll all be watching you as a test case to your theories.

    Don't want to risk it? Afraid the courts may disagree? Risk too big?

    Then shut up...
    OK thats just not the way I had hope we'd handle this or the attitude or results of this thread I had in mind.
    many of you have seen the video opinion of the judge, some have even read the definitions I posted in the first post. if the Kentucky secretary of state agrees with the judges opinion, how would we affect change here in Michigan? Black's Law Dictionary online has no results for the term "Private Property" nor was I successfully able to find results in the Oxford Dictionary online.
    I Thank You malignity , Coded-Dude & Others for your input, let's not wait until one of us gets jammed up. I yield to my brothers & sister for your constructive opinions and research in an effort to get a plan for a definitive answer.
    I can only think that we would have to start with the poster of civil rights vs. liberty, which took me back to the drawing board. :-)

    Carry On
    Last edited by Master Control; 11-09-2010 at 02:01 PM. Reason: too long of post
    "Liberty's too precious a thing to be buried in books...Men should hold it up in front of them every single day of their lives and say: 'I'm free to think and to speak. My ancestors couldn't. I can. And my children will."
    ,,, So Mote Be


    Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.-- JC

  24. #24
    Regular Member Master Control's Avatar
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    ^5@bailenforcer
    "Liberty's too precious a thing to be buried in books...Men should hold it up in front of them every single day of their lives and say: 'I'm free to think and to speak. My ancestors couldn't. I can. And my children will."
    ,,, So Mote Be


    Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.-- JC

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    I WILL 'hold onto my wrong headed opinions." Why don't you step back from your keyboard and walk the walk? You are gonna sit back and give everyone else a dissertation on private property law but you don't DO anything to back your points. Sure you quote resources, retired Judges and what not...but you don't DO anything to put your own words into practice. Until that day my friend, why don't you get off all of us who'd rather not spend the day in jail and thousands of OUR(not your) own hard earned money to defend ourselves in court when were are arrested for trespassing...all because YOU said so. Can I use your words in my defense in court? Will you be my expert witness to explain to a jury how private property really isn't private afterall?

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