Local PD Smith and Wesson story revieled.

Yes sir you were the first person who verified what I asked and heard myself and I also followed up and found out about the failed factory tour that blew up in Smith & Wessons face with 11 of 16 brand new weapons failing horridly.

Why someone would come in here tainting things with smears and false accusations is beyond me, unless her works for them or made the mistake of buying their stock lol.

eastmeyers said:

I have been given the same information about the same city. By more than one officer, and high ranking official within its government. So I have confirmed this, as I did in the other thread, actually, I think I was the one who put the info out their when the question was asked. Anways, I was not asked to not name names, but will not out of respect. This is the internet and things can get out of control way to easy.

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Do the police buy them off the shelf, e.g. are the guns that the police carry, exactly the same guns that we can buy at Target, or Bass Pro?

I too, like the feel of an M&P, and was thinking about buying one, now I'm going to wait until this gets sorted out.

Bailenforcer said:

Yes sir you were the first person who verified what I asked and heard myself and I also followed up and found out about the failed factory tour that blew up in Smith & Wessons face with 11 of 16 brand new weapons failing horridly.

Why someone would come in here tainting things with smears and false accusations is beyond me, unless her works for them or made the mistake of buying their stock lol.

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Did the PD bring their Dept. issue ammo with them or did the weapons fail with a standard ammo? I called S&W this morning and asked the service dept. if I should be worried about my newly purchased M&P 9mm. The man I talked to was not privy to the Southfield PD situation and said there has not been a known wide spread failure of the gun.

Bailenforcer said:

Yes sir you were the first person who verified what I asked and heard myself and I also followed up and found out about the failed factory tour that blew up in Smith & Wessons face with 11 of 16 brand new weapons failing horridly.

Why someone would come in here tainting things with smears and false accusations is beyond me, unless her works for them or made the mistake of buying their stock lol.

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Speaking of false accusations......

eastmeyers said:

This is my suspicion. But who cares, why go with a Glock copy cat, when you can just go with Glock? (oh here comes all those critics, and yeah I don't care what YOU carry, but when its for a large department, yes I rather them go with the original.)

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I vastly prefer M&P ergonomics, but it seems everyone but Glock and a few far less notable folks are interested in building a 10mm. For this reason, Glock remains the king.

scot623 said:

Did the PD bring their Dept. issue ammo with them or did the weapons fail with a standard ammo? I called S&W this morning and asked the service dept. if I should be worried about my newly purchased M&P 9mm. The man I talked to was not privy to the Southfield PD situation and said there has not been a known wide spread failure of the gun.

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Okay this is how I see it. These were ordered directly from S&W. These were .357sig. When they make firearms they are for orders, they goto firearm stores, and police departments and so on. The most common models are the 9mm's, and the .40s&w's, and in third .45acp. So when they got a LARGE order (Southfield is very large, I believe it is the largest police department in Oakland County, I am not sure but believe it it bigger than Oakland County Sheriff's Department, I may be wrong), they rushed them. And screwed up. I have herd of reports from other departments that have had the same issues, just not in the same numbers.

So all of the off the shelf M&P's, I haven't herd of major issues (other than all that trigger crap), seem fine, it just seems like some of the larger departments are having issues. And it seems that it was the department that had the rarest ordered round that had the worse problem, and had to send them all back it was so bad. So it seems to be a supply/demand issue. Maybe they should just keep some in a wear house somewhere(but they don't because if a mass issue does arise they don't have to fix a wearhouse full of broken firearms).

Just my $0.02

Hmm. This may be more indicative of a problem with a specific round, as opposed to a problem with a specific firearm model.

eastmeyers said:

Okay this is how I see it. These were ordered directly from S&W. These were .357sig. When they make firearms they are for orders, they goto firearm stores, and police departments and so on. The most common models are the 9mm's, and the .40s&w's, and in third .45acp. So when they got a LARGE order (Southfield is very large, I believe it is the largest police department in Oakland County, I am not sure but believe it it bigger than Oakland County Sheriff's Department, I may be wrong), they rushed them. And screwed up. I have herd of reports from other departments that have had the same issues, just not in the same numbers.

So all of the off the shelf M&P's, I haven't herd of major issues (other than all that trigger crap), seem fine, it just seems like some of the larger departments are having issues. And it seems that it was the department that had the rarest ordered round that had the worse problem, and had to send them all back it was so bad. So it seems to be a supply/demand issue. Maybe they should just keep some in a wear house somewhere(but they don't because if a mass issue does arise they don't have to fix a wearhouse full of broken firearms).

Just my $0.02

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wrightme said:

Hmm. This may be more indicative of a problem with a specific round, as opposed to a problem with a specific firearm model.

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This was my immediate thought. But it made me think of those Detroit officers (Detroit and Southfield border, Detroit was the first major department in the area to goto the M&P), who made the same complaint. I always assumed these Detroit offices were just having bad luck, or had a fluke firearm, or maybe were limp-wristing it. Detroit uses the .40s&w round. So from my educated guess, maybe even if S&W did a (possible) rush job with Detroit also they were MUCH more experienced in making the .40s&w, so only screwed up on say 5% of the weapons. ~VS~ when doing Southfield's (possible) rush job on the less experienced .357sig round they screwed up a whopping 25% of the time. Either way I would rather buy an M&P than be issued one.

[my %'s were purely made up to demonstrate for effect, I don't know the actual numbers]

And no this isn't bias in my part at all, these are just the conclusions I have drawn in my own head after speaking to officials, and officers. Also I have never herd of an issue of personally paid for (bought from a fire arm store) M&P, other than their notoriously horrible triggers, which from what I hear are not so bad any more.

This all sounds very rational. I am curious to hear more data. In fact, I am also curious to see how my 9VE will operate. I do expect a heavy trigger pull already.

eastmeyers said:

This was my immediate thought. But it made me think of those Detroit officers (Detroit and Southfield border, Detroit was the first major department in the area to goto the M&P), who made the same complaint. I always assumed these Detroit offices were just having bad luck, or had a fluke firearm, or maybe were limp-wristing it. Detroit uses the .40s&w round. So from my educated guess, maybe even if S&W did a (possible) rush job with Detroit also they were MUCH more experienced in making the .40s&w, so only screwed up on say 5% of the weapons. ~VS~ when doing Southfield's (possible) rush job on the less experienced .357sig round they screwed up a whopping 25% of the time. Either way I would rather buy an M&P than be issued one.

[my %'s were purely made up to demonstrate for effect, I don't know the actual numbers]

And no this isn't bias in my part at all, these are just the conclusions I have drawn in my own head after speaking to officials, and officers. Also I have never herd of an issue of personally paid for (bought from a fire arm store) M&P, other than their notoriously horrible triggers, which from what I hear are not so bad any more.

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wrightme said:

This all sounds very rational. I am curious to hear more data. In fact, I am also curious to see how my 9VE will operate. I do expect a heavy trigger pull already.

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Well don't talk to me about trigger pulls. I am one of those "crazy people" who put a 3.5lbs trigger on my everyday carry Glock 21. Funny I pull it out of its holster at least 4 times a day (bathroom and bedtime) and have NEVER shotmyself in the leg, HMMMMMMMMMM. Also never shot myself in the leg under high stress, or on the job. HMMMMMMMMMM, and my everyday holster is a Serpa, HMMMMMMMM!!! I can't believe I never shot myself in the leg:exclaim::exclaim::exclaim:

Oh and the shot the leg refrences, are not for you wrightme, they are for another member, lol.

eastmeyers said:

Well don't talk to me about trigger pulls. I am one of those "crazy people" who put a 3.5lbs trigger on my everyday carry Glock 21. Funny I pull it out of its holster at least 4 times a day (bathroom and bedtime) and have NEVER shotmyself in the leg, HMMMMMMMMMM. Also never shot myself in the leg under high stress, or on the job. HMMMMMMMMMM, and my everyday holster is a Serpa, HMMMMMMMM!!! I can't believe I never shot myself in the leg:exclaim::exclaim::exclaim:

Oh and the shot the leg refrences, are not for you wrightme, they are for another member, lol.

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lol, thanks.

I do expect to "work" on the trigger at some point, but this may be mostly used by a less experienced person, so the 12lb (that is what I have heard) may be useful at first, and I may seek to reduce it later.

I prefer a nice "weak" and controllable trigger, as opposed to a heavy and mushy trigger.

eastmeyers said:

Well don't talk to me about trigger pulls. I am one of those "crazy people" who put a 3.5lbs trigger on my everyday carry Glock 21. Funny I pull it out of its holster at least 4 times a day (bathroom and bedtime) and have NEVER shotmyself in the leg, HMMMMMMMMMM. Also never shot myself in the leg under high stress, or on the job. HMMMMMMMMMM, and my everyday holster is a Serpa, HMMMMMMMM!!! I can't believe I never shot myself in the leg:exclaim::exclaim::exclaim:

Oh and the shot the leg refrences, are not for you wrightme, they are for another member, lol.

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My M&P 9mm has a 3.75lb pull. Me likey. Thanks Doug!

wrightme said:

lol, thanks.

I do expect to "work" on the trigger at some point, but this may be mostly used by a less experienced person, so the 12lb (that is what I have heard) may be useful at first, and I may seek to reduce it later.

I prefer a nice "weak" and controllable trigger, as opposed to a heavy and mushy trigger.

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The point here is always to trust your own individual firearm. I am confidant that I can draw, aim and pull my trigger 14 times (13+1), on target, under stress, under ten seconds, within a reasonable distance. I am not expecting this from all, but as long as every single person that carries can fire 3 rounds, in 3 seconds, within 3 to 10 feet, I am satisfied, that is what everyone should be able to do with their personal everyday carry weapon. IMHO

Funny how a gun operates, things happen in a certain order, mechanically, and predictably. You pull back on the trigger, smoothly, and it goes click, or bang, depending if its been loaded or not. If you don't touch the trigger, then it won't fire. Into your leg, or otherwise.

scot623 said:

My M&P 9mm has a 3.75lb pull. Me likey. Thanks Doug!

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I love light triggers, I mean if you don't like them or don't feel comfortable carrying them don't, but if you do, they are awesome!