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Thread: OC Downtown Indy, INGO member ends up in cuffs

  1. #1
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    OC Downtown Indy, INGO member ends up in cuffs

    On Oct 29th myself and a group of INGO members decided to go down to the city market for lunch. We agreed to meet at 11:30-noon, I ran late and showed up at 11:45.

    As I drove past the meeting spot I noticed a few of the guys there, including one brass-balled member OCing an MP5 SBR, and about 5 cops. I parked around the corner and headed over.

    The guy who arrived first (not the guy carrying the MP5) was approached by an officer and cuffed for refusing to obey an order to de-cock, unload. The OCer refused the illegal order which upset the cop(s). He then was put into cuffs "for the officer's safety."

    The rest of the folks began to arrive, and the police mad them all draw, unload, and unload the mags, for the "officer's safety."

    There you had 5-8 guys all drawing their sidearms in a public place to unload. Does that sound safe to anyone?

    I got there just after the real action.

    The police lied about the manager not allowing gun carry on the property, and told us to move on.

    When I walked up, one tubby cop looked at my sidearm and started asking "what group are you with," "how many more are coming," and "how did you communicate to organize this event." I did not answer any questions, someone else from our group was.

    We ended up going down the street a few blocks where we ate at Dick's Bodacious BBQ, where they welcomed us with open arms. We then proceeded to monument circle where they were having some kind of Colts celebration with people and a concert. We hung out there in the crowd for about 20 minutes with no further problems, even with police officers walking around.

    Photos and video were taken, and there are rumors of legal action being taken.

    More Info at INGO

    A thread on Officer.com where the LEO's call us "social retards"


  2. #2
    Regular Member TN_Mike's Avatar
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    I read the thread several days ago on INGO and have to say, I hope that someone takes some legal action. Yall were harassed beyond all belief. Those IMPD cops need to learn the law. And they need to stop thinking they are above having to be at all respectful to the people who pay the taxes that pay their wages.

    Maybe they should all learn that they aren't supposed to drive drunk before they are allowed to really enforce the law since 2 of them in the last 3 or 4 months have done so. One causing the death of a citizen.

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    civil action

    Pass on to anyone involved in this that I'd be glad to testify as an expert witness as to the illegality of the actions of the officers in this case.

    Lieutenant Harry Thomas
    Cincinnati Police Department (ret.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liberty Sanders View Post
    Pass on to anyone involved in this that I'd be glad to testify as an expert witness as to the illegality of the actions of the officers in this case.

    Lieutenant Harry Thomas
    Cincinnati Police Department (ret.)
    Thank you...I filed a complaint with IMPD 4 days after the violation and have yet to be contacted by them. After rereading their complaint process, it appears my 'informal complaint' will not go anywhere, as the Citizens' Police Complaint Board does not review those. They will only address 'formal complaints', so I need to call them Monday to schedule a meeting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liberty Sanders View Post
    Pass on to anyone involved in this that I'd be glad to testify as an expert witness as to the illegality of the actions of the officers in this case.

    Lieutenant Harry Thomas
    Cincinnati Police Department (ret.)
    Thank you...

    Now my question is, if I have filed a complaint with the department, does that in fact get channeled and is the same as going to the prosecuting attorney's office and filing criminal charges against the officer involved?

    From what I was told by the Citizen's Police Complaint Office is that my complaint has been forwarded to the commander's office for review and should expect someone from that office to contact me for an interview. I also called their office and left a message, asking for a return phone call.

    If this can go through the prosecuting attorney's office, are they the ones that determine what criminal activity transpired, or should I seek legal advice for assistance?

    Thanks in advance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by henktermaat View Post
    A thread on Officer.com where the LEO's call us "social retards"
    really? let me show you my shocked face.

    seriously, i used to think reading those threads on officer.com would be enlightening to some degree. unfortunately, I didn't think I could get an even more negative view of law enforcement until i read some of those. I honestly would like to know where those LEOs get the impression that they should be treated like gods or heroes.

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    Regular Member ATF Consumer's Avatar
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    I think I found some interesting code...

    IC 35-47-14-3
    Warrantless seizure of firearm from individual believed to be dangerous
    Sec. 3. (a) If a law enforcement officer seizes a firearm from an individual whom the law enforcement officer believes to be dangerous without obtaining a warrant, the law enforcement officer shall submit to the circuit or superior court having jurisdiction over the individual believed to be dangerous a written statement under oath or affirmation describing the basis for the law enforcement officer's belief that the individual is dangerous.
    (b) The court shall review the written statement submitted under subsection (a). If the court finds that probable cause exists to believe that the individual is dangerous, the court shall order the law enforcement agency having custody of the firearm to retain the firearm. If the court finds that there is no probable cause to believe that the individual is dangerous, the court shall order the law enforcement agency having custody of the firearm to return the firearm to the individual.
    (c) This section does not authorize a law enforcement officer to perform a warrantless search or seizure if a warrant would otherwise be required.
    As added by P.L.1-2006, SEC.537.

    Granted, my firearm was returned after being seized for about 20 minutes while being cuffed, but he had no reasonable suspicion to even disarm me or detain me for that matter.
    The officer said I was being detained for officer's safety, yet he failed to pat me down to find my Ruger in my back pocket, or my 3.5" folder knife in my front pocket. I was cuffed and had ready access to my backup firearm. Failure to pat me down and retrieve those other weapons was either completely reckless on the officer's behalf, or he never felt threatened by any of us at all and it was an ego issue and he wasn't going to allow anyone to challenge his unlawful commands.
    Last edited by ATF Consumer; 12-01-2010 at 06:21 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATF Consumer View Post
    I think I found some interesting code...

    IC 35-47-14-3
    Warrantless seizure of firearm from individual believed to be dangerous
    Sec. 3. (a) If a law enforcement officer seizes a firearm from an individual whom the law enforcement officer believes to be dangerous without obtaining a warrant, the law enforcement officer shall submit to the circuit or superior court having jurisdiction over the individual believed to be dangerous a written statement under oath or affirmation describing the basis for the law enforcement officer's belief that the individual is dangerous.
    (b) The court shall review the written statement submitted under subsection (a). If the court finds that probable cause exists to believe that the individual is dangerous, the court shall order the law enforcement agency having custody of the firearm to retain the firearm. If the court finds that there is no probable cause to believe that the individual is dangerous, the court shall order the law enforcement agency having custody of the firearm to return the firearm to the individual.
    (c) This section does not authorize a law enforcement officer to perform a warrantless search or seizure if a warrant would otherwise be required.
    As added by P.L.1-2006, SEC.537.

    Granted, my firearm was returned after being seized for about 20 minutes while being cuffed, but he had no reasonable suspicion to even disarm me or detain me for that matter.
    The officer said I was being detained for officer's safety, yet he failed to pat me down to find my Ruger in my back pocket, or my 3.5" folder knife in my front pocket. I was cuffed and had ready access to my backup firearm. Failure to pat me down and retrieve those other weapons was either completely reckless on the officer's behalf, or he never felt threatened by any of us at all and it was an ego issue and he wasn't going to allow anyone to challenge his unlawful commands.
    wow, i woulda said, 'hey you missed one', as you were leaving. lol

  9. #9
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    What I find to be truly odd within this encounter is that any officer would order several people to draw out and then unload their own firearms if he was actually concerned for his own safety.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Funny bunch o' folks on that forum ain't they?
    "Citizen bashing" seems to be a high art among the "Only Ones".

  11. #11
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Funny bunch o' folks on that forum ain't they?
    "Citizen bashing" seems to be a high art among the "Only Ones".
    Too bad there wasn't the internet in the '30s. Would have enjoyed reading the SS blog. Oh wait, we can do that today...

    "We must take the guns from the people to make the streets safe for the SS."

    A. Hitler

  12. #12
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATF Consumer View Post
    Thank you...I filed a complaint with IMPD 4 days after the violation and have yet to be contacted by them. After rereading their complaint process, it appears my 'informal complaint' will not go anywhere, as the Citizens' Police Complaint Board does not review those. They will only address 'formal complaints', so I need to call them Monday to schedule a meeting.
    The only real way in most states that you can slam a felonious PD or its individual officers is at the federal level. Most local, county and state court systems have state law and thin blue line based buffers to keep you from settling the score. Always remember that even if the majority of the active duty LE agents in your area respect your rights, theres barely a snowballs chance in hell that any of them in the position to do so will take meaningful steps to help you take out the trash from their ranks, at least not with the procedures put in place by state law or their department.

    I highly suggest that if at all possible, you take it to the federal level with a color of law lawsuit, as well as seeking color of law criminal charges against any officers that committed offenses. A good lawyer is the most crucial part of this. Finding one that is really good, and fancies himself a gun rights activist is just about crucial unless you're loaded with money.

    Drawing on many similar experiences from the past 3 years, I do not for any reason recommend interacting with the PD in any way, other than to file freedom of information act type paperwork. Unless the leadership is gun friendly and this represents a few bad apples, it will do absolutely no good to waste your time using their system. Take it out of their hands, and go to the feds.
    Last edited by Michigander; 12-14-2010 at 11:09 PM.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    +1 Exactly. And I think that argument right there will defeat any claims of "officer safety". So, let me get this straight, Officer Smith... you felt that Joe Citizen was armed AND DANGEROUS so your next step was to ask him to remove his firearm from the holster himself?!!!!!

    Common sense - 1
    Officer safety - 0
    In most of the really bad police encounters I've had, the entire events, figuratively speaking, amounted to little more than a 5th grade bully or 10 trying to intimidate those classmates that won't take their crap. Some cops just get into the business for all the wrong reasons, a big one being that they want to bully people.

    I can't say for sure since I wasn't there, but this case sounds like little more than another incident of this description.
    Last edited by Michigander; 12-14-2010 at 11:26 PM.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Oc carry is great but !!!!!

    I like to open carry as much as the next guy. But it from what I have read and the reactions that are posted on this board. Some of the open carry Is done just to see what the reaction from local law enforcment will be. Wtf having and MP5 slung is asking for some one to take notice .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Byron Devine View Post
    I like to open carry as much as the next guy. But it from what I have read and the reactions that are posted on this board. Some of the open carry Is done just to see what the reaction from local law enforcment will be. Wtf having and MP5 slung is asking for some one to take notice .
    It might be for some but obviously not all. Some people like to exercise their rights and as long as they are within the law, it doesn't bother me one bit. Its up to the police officers to also know the law and act accordingly. In cases even where an officer or a department might seem to be set up by a citizen, its their duty to act accordingly and within the law. I see alot of these people as performing an important function for their community. If it helps to educate ignorant officers or helps to weed out corrupt ones, than its a net positive for everybody.

    Are the police to blame if their undercover guy tries to sell you some kind of illegal contraband and you agree to purchase it and get yourself arrested or are you the one to blame in that incident?

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    Open Carry Events

    One of the things that I have noticed about this type of event is"We were exercising are right to open carry." And if some one makes a remark about it to the group it has at times degraded to mob rule. MY wife and I both open carry and have long guns in the car. Have went on walks during open carry and have never had a negative run with the police.

  17. #17
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    the sight of you guys with your unloaded firearms is making me very nervous, i would appreciate it if you would load up for my safety!

  18. #18
    Regular Member GLOCKMAN40's Avatar
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    Open carry downtown

    Ok its been some time since i've been here to post , but OMG i have read the post on the down town cuffing of an open carry law abiding citizen and im not surprised at what happen , it go's to show you just how much knowledge of the gun laws in this state the police have, you would stop and wounder just what they are being tough in thier police training. I believe it go's back to the officer's thinking that he is the only one on the streets here in this great state of ours that is suppose to carry a gun ( norrow minded thinking of him ) , i believe they all need to be reminded of the facts , 1. that we the law abiding citizen's of the great state of Indiana who live and practice our 2A can and will carry open or concealed if we so choose to.

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