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Thread: Did I miss something?!

  1. #1
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    Question Did I miss something?!

    Some of you may remember when I was stopped for OC'ing in the Shasta Mall. If you don't, well, I did lol.

    I had a conversation (more of a debate) with someone at Shasta College about what is the definition of "concealed" by the letter of the law. I excused myself from the conversation when I realized it was becoming severely one-sided and I needed to go to my next class. I was talking to my fiance' about the conversation I had while we were waiting for our teacher to come in.

    During our conversation, I apparently invited the person who was sitting in front of us to join our debate. Through the course of this conversation, I learned (from what I interpreted) he was the "rent-a-cop" from the mall who called RPD.

    I said something, not entirely sure what ...
    (Bold is his comments, Underline are mine)

    "Oh you were the one with the loaded gun at the mall huh?"
    "Yes, that was me. No, it wasn't loaded."
    "Well, you had a clip in it didn't you?"
    "No. There was no clip in the gun. Even if there was, that doesn't make it loaded."
    "There was a clip in there."
    "No, there wasn't. I don't carry my gun loaded. That and I only have one clip for that gun and that clip was in my mag holster."
    "Okay, well why do you carry an unloaded gun then?"
    "Because, with practice, I can have it loaded within a couple seconds."
    "See? It was loaded."
    "What?! How do you figure that?!"
    "Because you can load it in 2 seconds means it's loaded."
    "Um, no. That does NOT make it loaded."
    "Well, how fast can a cop draw his gun?"
    "Takes him about one and a half seconds to make the decision to draw his gun."
    "See? You can load your gun before he can draw his."
    "Yes. But it takes me the same amount of time to make the decision to load my gun as it does for him to draw his. So we're about the same. And why would I draw my gun on an officer?"
    "Well what would you do if you got a call saying there's a man at the mall with a gun?"
    "First, if I got a call for a Man With A Gun, I would ask Dispatch what he's doing ""Oh, he's just sitting down drinking a soda?"" and then I would respond accordingly."
    "No you'd go in with guns drawn!"
    "No, I wouldn't because he's not doing anything illegal."
    "You know if you got a gun and a cop sees you with it, the slightest movement toward the gun and he will shoot you and he'll be right."
    "Yes I know. Officer Safety. But that's why I wouldn't reach for my gun. Why would I?"

    Somehow it jumped between him making more random statements or questions.
    Well, do you have a license to carry a gun?
    - Do I need one?
    Yes.
    -Incorrect. You do not need a permit to purchase, own, or possess a firearm.
    You do if you want to carry it in public.
    -No I don't.

    Then he said something about he has a CCW and something to the effect of a permit which allows him to carry in public. I forget what it's called [we will call it a ASGP {armed security guard permit}]. I know what he's referring to and it's not a permit parse. It's a document that says you have received the proper training to use a firearm in an appropriate manner while working in an official capacity - like a security guard or similar position where you would be wearing a firearm.

    He said when he gets pulled over, he hands the officer both his CCW and ASGP so to put the officer at ease. I'm thinking to myself "you want to put an officer at ease by telling him you probably have a gun in a hidden place that he wouldn't have suspected if you didn't inform him? How does that make sense?"

    Thankfully, the teacher walked in at this point and the conversation ended.

    I'm just wondering, because this guy is claiming he is currently attending some police academy, (the nearest one is well over an hours' travel away) what are the odds where this guy is getting his information from knows nothing about the law or is severely anti-gun. Oh, he also kept making several references to people who are "Pro-Constitutional". I kept telling him I don't OC for the sole purpose of upholding the Constitution. But I can't help but thinking, his statement makes him sound like he's very "Anti-Constitutional".
    Last edited by wolfetundra; 11-09-2010 at 11:27 PM. Reason: Cleaned it up a bit

  2. #2
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    Wow! I hope that guy never becomes A cop in my area! ;O)

  3. #3
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Your posted encounter at the Mt Shasta Mall is here...http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...=1#post1020405

    I dont think youre missing anything... I think the person who injected themselves into your discussion probably has an agenda based on their narrow view of who should and shouldnt carry a firearm. To these kinds of people, the Constitutionality of carrying is only relvant after officer safety has been fully and completely ensured. Another thing to keep in mind is that not everyone has the penal code in mind when you start defining what is and isnt a loaded weapon or what is or isnt considered concealed. With this person, I think their definitions are loosely based on what they have learned from POST instructors or instruction they have recieved from officers who deal with the worst 2% of the population 98% of the time and apply the strictest legal conclusions upon 98% of the population when it only applies 2% of the time.
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    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by r1man View Post
    Wow! I hope that guy never becomes A cop in my area! ;O)
    I hope he doesn't become a cop anywhere with that mentality!

    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    Your posted encounter at the Mt Shasta Mall is here...http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...=1#post1020405
    Thanks. Just didn't feel like looking it up lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    I dont think youre missing anything... I think the person who injected themselves into your discussion probably has an agenda based on their narrow view of who should and shouldnt carry a firearm.
    For some reason, I don't doubt that.

    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    To these kinds of people, the Constitutionality of carrying is only relvant after officer safety has been fully and completely ensured.
    With some of that, I agree. Officer Safety is important. But you shouldn't worry about Officer Safety when you are grocery shopping. He wasn't an officer, he was security.

    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    Another thing to keep in mind is that not everyone has the penal code in mind when you start defining what is and isnt a loaded weapon or what is or isnt considered concealed.
    That's just it, I even gave the dumbed down version of the legal jargon in case he misunderstood something.

    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    With this person, I think their definitions are loosely based on what they have learned from POST instructors or instruction they have recieved from officers.
    I'm taking POST now (so I know he's not in the Modular program) and we are being taught correctly (same officer has been instructing for well over 5 yrs).

    I also forgot to mention, he gave the rambling that you can't take a gun into a public building. Agreed. Good thing the local mall isn't a "public building"!

    The whole thing started when I originally asked for a copy of their policy when they (him and his partner) told me they had one. He brought it up again during the conversation and I simply told him they need to post a sign up outside stating that. Similar to a "No Dogs Allowed" sign.

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