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Thread: Portland City Council November 15th 5:15 Agenda

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    Portland Gun Ban

    Resolve 3-10/11 Resolution Supporting Legislation Prohibiting Guns in Publicly

    (Tab 15) Owned or Controlled Buildings or Facilities that Host Large Public Gatherings Sponsored by the Public Safety Committee, Councilor Daniel S. Skolnik, Chair.

    On October 12th, the Public Safety Committee voted 2-0 to send a Resolution to the Council supporting the creation of state legislation that would prohibit firearms in certain publicly owed facilities where mass gatherings occur.

    At the November 1st Council meeting, this item was postponed to this meeting. Five affirmative votes are required for passage after public comment.
    Last edited by Maine CWP Training; 11-11-2010 at 11:57 AM.
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    4th on the agenda~
    Paul J. Mattson
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    Thanks, I look forward to seeing you there!

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    Regular Member crdonov's Avatar
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    sorry fellows wont be able to attend. sorry. good luck. hopefully catch it on the news.

    xd-over

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    Regular Member ep0k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crdonov View Post
    sorry fellows wont be able to attend. sorry. good luck. hopefully catch it on the news.

    xd-over
    I'll be making an appearance. As usual.
    v/r
    Forrest Brown
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    This is actually on the 7PM agenda. I can't change the title.
    Paul J. Mattson
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maine CWP Training View Post
    This is actually on the 7PM agenda. I can't change the title.
    Noted.

    Will an NRA representative be at the meeting?
    v/r
    Forrest Brown
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    Nra statewide alert

    Maine's Concealed Carry Rights in Jeopardy Again!

    Please Stand-Up and Make Your Voice Heard!

    On Monday, November 15, the Portland City Council will hold a public hearing and vote to consider a resolution asking the legislature to prohibit legally-owned firearms in certain public facilities. This resolution would be the first step in an outright attack on your concealed carry rights and the measure also defies Maine's Constitution which states, "Every citizen has a right to keep and bear arms and this right shall never be questioned."

    The meeting will be held on Monday, November 15 at 5:15 P.M. in the City Council Chambers, located at 389 Congress Street in Portland.

    Please attend and make your voice heard! Respectfully urge council members to oppose any changes to state law which would create victim zones in Maine. Remember to tell them that crime does not stop at the front door of a public facility and the right to defend yourself and family shouldn't either. If you are unable to attend, please contact the members of the City Council and voice your opposition to this resolution. Contact information can be found below.

    Nicholas Mavodones, Jr.
    Mayor
    (207) 774-0257

    Kevin J. Donoghue
    District 1
    (207) 409-2807

    David A Marshall
    District 2
    (207) 409-6617

    Dan S. Skolnik
    District 3
    (207) 831-7343

    Cheryl A. Leeman
    District 4
    (207) 773-4161

    John R. Coyne
    District 5
    (207) 878-7426

    John M. Anton
    (207) 650-8979

    Dory Richards Waxman
    (207) 774-8210

    Jill C. Duson
    (207) 878-0769
    Paul J. Mattson
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    www.mainecwptraining.com

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    Portland City Council Agenda:

    Sponsored by the Public Safety Committee, Councilor Daniel S. Skolnik, Chair.
    Resolve 3-10/11 Resolution Supporting Legislation Prohibiting Guns in Publicly Owned or Controlled Buildings or Facilities that Host Large Public Gatherings
    On October 12th, the Public Safety Committee Voted 2-0 to send a Resolution to the Council Supporting the Creation of State Legislation that would Prohibit Firearms in certain Publicly Owed Facilities where Mass Gatherings occur.
    At the November 1st Council meeting, this Item was Postponed to this Meeting. Five Affirmative Votes are Required for Passage after Public Comment.

    aadvark

    P.S.: They [Portland] have some Nerve!

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    This is a topic on the John McDonald Show now and will be with Mike & Ken tomorrow 5:30Am ~ 9:00AM 879-9426 ~ 560 WGAN
    Paul J. Mattson
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    Maine CWP Training
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    Gun Ban passed 6~1.

    Dead in the water in Augusta!
    Paul J. Mattson
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    101 Main St.
    Harrison, ME 04040

    www.mainecwptraining.com

    (207) 583-4723
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    Regular Member ep0k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maine CWP Training View Post
    Gun Ban passed 6~1.

    Dead in the water in Augusta!
    I feel like I came on too strong with my speech and then subsequently wasn't aggressive enough in countering Skolnik's flagrant distortion of reality to suit his agenda.

    This being said I have to hand it to Paul, he spoke at great length and very articulately on the topic.

    Skolnik likes to employ a tactic called the "Gish Gallop", so named for Duane Gish, who uses it regularly in debates. The idea is to overwhelm your opponent with lots of oversimplified sound bytes which may or may not have any bearing on reality. Operating on a 3-minute timer and without prior preparation for what might come out of Skolnik's mouth next it's very hard to build the complicated arguments which refute him, as any one piece of BS might take a doctoral thesis to counter.
    v/r
    Forrest Brown
    Webmaster, Maine Open Carry Association
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    Not sure I understand the problem at this level.

    Portland is asking for an exception to preemption, right? Not passing an ordinance as I understand it. So what are the chances that the legislature will seriously consider this? Nill I trust.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Forest you were excellent. This was a love fest that will be resoundingly defeated in committee. I have asked Governor elect LePage to make a statement early on, long before it reached committee.

    It was good to see you this evening~
    Paul J. Mattson
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    Maine CWP Training
    101 Main St.
    Harrison, ME 04040

    www.mainecwptraining.com

    (207) 583-4723
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Not sure I understand the problem at this level.

    Portland is asking for an exception to preemption, right? Not passing an ordinance as I understand it. So what are the chances that the legislature will seriously consider this? Nill I trust.
    Correct, they are asking the state to pass a law banning guns in public. They aren't themselves passing such an ordinance.

    There is very little chance of this gaining momentum in Augusta. However, I am losing my faith in legislators ability to take facts into consideration when looking at an issue. Skolnik lied tonight on so many issues. No one listened to the factual evidence and they all voted whatever they damn well felt like regardless of what their constituents want.
    Last edited by boyscout399; 11-15-2010 at 11:37 PM.

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    Rep. Elect G. Paul Waterhouse District 98 will be introducing legislation to repeal the Capitol rule.

    Not one councilor addressed Maine Constitution Article 1 Section 16!
    Last edited by Maine CWP Training; 11-15-2010 at 11:45 PM.
    Paul J. Mattson
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    www.mainecwptraining.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Not sure I understand the problem at this level.

    Portland is asking for an exception to preemption, right? Not passing an ordinance as I understand it. So what are the chances that the legislature will seriously consider this? Nill I trust.
    Quote Originally Posted by boyscout399 View Post
    Correct, they are asking the state to pass a law banning guns in public. They aren't themselves passing such an ordinance.

    There is very little chance of this gaining momentum in Augusta. However, I am losing my faith in legislators ability to take facts into consideration when looking at an issue. Skolnik lied tonight on so many issues. No one listened to the factual evidence and they all voted whatever they damn well felt like regardless of what their constituents want.
    This then was an opportunity for you to polish your oratory skills for the real contest - the one at the state level.

    I'm reminded of the old adage, "He who laughs last, laughs best." When all is said and done, perhaps you can buy Mr.Skolnik a cup of coffee at the City Hall coffee bar.....while OCing.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member ep0k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Not sure I understand the problem at this level.

    Portland is asking for an exception to preemption, right? Not passing an ordinance as I understand it. So what are the chances that the legislature will seriously consider this? Nill I trust.
    What the resolution represents, and I think the Mayor articulated this well, is that the Portland City Council, as it is currently represented, would like the state legislature to consider picking up this resolution up as a possible piece of future legislation. His personal justification for supporting the measure seemed to have more to do with a desire for the city council to have some autonomy than specific support for the gun ban measure itself.

    You are correct in that the political reality in the state capitol makes it unlikely this will ever even be picked up by a legislator, let alone pass into law. It remains, however, a symbolic loss for gun rights in Maine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maine CWP Training View Post
    Forest you were excellent. This was a love fest that will be resoundingly defeated in committee. I have asked Governor elect LePage to make a statement early on, long before it reached committee.

    It was good to see you this evening~
    Likewise. There has been a palpable tension here on the forums and I am glad that we had an opportunity to take a stand on the same side. I owe you an apology for my condescending attitude.

    We are also in the process of writing a letter to Governor-elect LePage.

    Quote Originally Posted by boyscout399 View Post
    Correct, they are asking the state to pass a law banning guns in public. They aren't themselves passing such an ordinance.

    There is very little chance of this gaining momentum in Augusta. However, I am losing my faith in legislators ability to take facts into consideration when looking at an issue. Skolnik lied tonight on so many issues. No one listened to the factual evidence and they all voted whatever they damn well felt like regardless of what their constituents want.
    Discussed this with Shane after the meeting. The reality of the situation is that the population centers in Maine (Portland, Augusta, Bangor) are the liberal enclaves in an otherwise conservative state. The Portland City Council represents the electorate who put them in office, and as such, they are as group inclined towards a mode of thinking which is by its nature hostile to gun rights. I did not expect to win tonight but I was still a little shocked at how one-sided it was.

    As an advocate for what I call "evidence-based politics" I am continually discouraged by what you point out. There exist well-defined methods of determining the objective truth of many things in this world. Gun rights are solidly in this category. There are decades of statistical and sociological data which support our position, which people like Skolnik will always ignore in order to preserve their a priori assumptions.


    Quote Originally Posted by Maine CWP Training View Post
    Rep. Elect G. Paul Waterhouse District 98 will be introducing legislation to repeal the Capitol rule.

    Not one councilor addressed Maine Constitution Article 1 Section 16!
    It was briefly addressed by Mr. Wood and dismissed on the boilerplate "time, situation, reasonable exception" excuse. It amazes me that we can stand there and have an argument about a right which was declared to be beyond question. Nowhere else in Article 1 is such strong language used. The authors of our state constitution obviously held the right to keep and bear arms in great esteem, and for good reason.
    v/r
    Forrest Brown
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    MCLU should address the fact every councilor discounted Article 1 Section 16 of the Maine Constitution.

    I'll contact Shenna Bellows their director and I encourage you to do the same.

    sbellows@mclu.org
    Paul J. Mattson
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    Must be up at 4~ so I'll drop this: I recalled Skolnik approaching Wood after the hearing was commenced for advice not afforded to the general public with white paper.

    Wood grinned to Skolnik' partner and gave him his successor accolades.
    Paul J. Mattson
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    Maine CWP Training
    101 Main St.
    Harrison, ME 04040

    www.mainecwptraining.com

    (207) 583-4723
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    Regular Member ep0k's Avatar
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    Me and Norman got more screen time than Shane.

    http://www.wgme.com/newsroom/top_sto...vid_5802.shtml

    Does the TV add 10 pounds or do I need to work on that gut?

    Web poll here...

    http://www.wgme.com/newsroom/poll/news_form.shtml
    v/r
    Forrest Brown
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    forrest@maineopencarry.org

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    Regular Member crdonov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ep0k View Post
    Me and Norman got more screen time than Shane.

    http://www.wgme.com/newsroom/top_sto...vid_5802.shtml

    Does the TV add 10 pounds or do I need to work on that gut?

    Web poll here...

    http://www.wgme.com/newsroom/poll/news_form.shtml
    you guys did a great job!!!

    xd-over

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    Can we do a carry out front of City Hall?

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    You can carry in city hall if you're not a prohibited person.
    Paul J. Mattson
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    "Skolnik said during Monday's hearing that no gun owner has a good reason for carrying a loaded weapon into an event at the Merrill Auditorium, the Portland Expo or the Cumberland County Civic Center."

    Now -- remember this? SOURCE


    Juvenile suspect arrested after police lock down Expo
    Police called for a lockdown at the Portland Expo during a middle school track meet at 7:30 p.m. Saturday after a witness outside reported a person wearing camouflage was pointing a gun at the building.The witness said the suspect entered a Park Avenue residence. With the help of residents, police located a juvenile and found several rifles that looked realistic but were determined to be toys. No firearms were found in the home, police said.
    The juvenile was charged with terrorizing. The Exposition building was in lockdown for about an hour.

    I was there, and felt absolutely foolish. I had a number of serviceable handguns AT HOME. I had a permit. I had none with me, and the "guards" at the expo were NOT armed. We were defenseless, and all the "guards" could / would tell us is to stay away from the glass in the lobby.
    Paul J. Mattson
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    Maine CWP Training
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    Harrison, ME 04040

    www.mainecwptraining.com

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