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WCI members must be united!

Peacekeeper

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Messages
171
Location
Fond du Lac Wisconsin
We are coming upon a critical time in our quest for choice carry. Right now we are speaking with too many voices, going in too many different directions. We need to speak as one voice.

I would like to see us develop a common letter that all members can send to their state reps which outlines our position.

I would like to have a date set for all members to come together at the state capitol for a "lobby day" to meet with our state reps in person and get some media coverage.

We need to develop lists of which state reps are on our side and which state reps we need to convince to come to our side.

We need to find a sponsor for the bill to repeal 941.23.

Nik / Hubert you are the leaders of our organization. You should and are our main up front voices. The rest of us need to be ready to follow your lead.

Some of the people on this section of this forum are not members of WCI. They have already decided choice carry is a lost cause and have retreated to permits and taxes and fees. We need to distance ourselves from these people and stay focused on our goal. To regain our full rights which have already been fought for and overwelmingly voted on. To regain our full rights as normal law obeying citizens.

carry on
 

professor gun

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
178
Location
, ,
I agree with much of what Peacekeeper says, however, repealing only 941.23 and not dealing with the issues of vehicle carry and GFSZ at the same time would be a mistake in my opinion.

While we are at it in terms of trying to find one voice, how about stopping the NRA bashing that some of you are so intent upon doing at every opportunity. We are likely to be working with the NRA as we seek to obtain concealed carry.
 

J.Gleason

Banned
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
3,481
Location
Chilton, Wisconsin, USA
The problem here is that you have the WCI Chairman voicing his opinion that we should fight for the repeal. On the other hand the other board members are standing mute while the henchman/mouth piece is preaching to the choir to accept Gunderson's Bill with out question.

With that in mind, do you blame everyone for getting confused?

I have sent message after message concerning legislators who are willing to help with the repeal. I get no response from WCI. There are to many grudges held over past arguments that won't allow for reasonable communication. It is just plain childish and very unprofessional.

Why should I keep preaching to my legislator that WCI has got the right idea when they won't even back up the statement?

Maybe if we all walk away they will get the picture.

It has become obvious that Spartacus is merely the mouth of which ever elite member does not want to publicly argue on this forum. He is a tool used to bully members into falling in line with the program. That is not the way members here should be treated.
I could care less if your a founding member or not. I could care less if you go to the events or not. It is obvious that it may be best for some of us to avoid the events in order to avoid altercations because of comments and agendas that have been taken to far in this forum. This is VICIOUS AND STUBBORN issue and all I can say is that anyone here who is actually dedicated to the fight should stay on task and ignore any comments made by the disrupter. His behavior is planted in this forum to divide the members here.
There is nothing wrong with being a member of WCI. There is everything wrong with believing that the WCI board members have to make every decision for us or that we can not take any initiatives on our own.

I think Cowboy (Don Marso) is a great example of that.

For any of us to turn tail and just fall in line to accept just any ole CCW Bill all for the sake of us getting a permit is just failure at its best and nothing more.

With that said, if Gunderson comes to the table with a CCW Bill that does not include mandated training, ridiculous fees to cover the cost of the permit, or any compromise of OCW; and if this is the first bill that hits Walkers desk then so be it. It is not a bad start. Does that mean that we should not continue on and fight for the repeal before any bill can be handed to Walker? Hell no! Walker said he would sign either the repeal or a "Reasonable" CCW bill. We have to make sure that "Reasonable" is just that. It is Reasonable to pay say a $5.00 surcharge to cover the cost of the permit. It is reasonable that training should be an option left up to the carrier as mandated training may come with costs that are not affordable to lower income individuals and that is infringement.
Because someone posts on here that we may just have to accept what is offered to us we all give up? Wow, what a disappointment this forum has turned out to be.
I guess it is easier to just give up and accept what is offered then it is to get off your lazy arses and make some phone calls to your legislators. So I guess that means that all this talk in this forum is just that, talk. Only a select few here are really dedicated enough to actually make those calls, send those letters and emails or make those trips to their legislators office.
Or am I wrong here and are we going to keep up the fight and stand our ground? Things worth having need to be fought for. We need to unite and fight together and stop letting others divide us and distract us from the mission.
Look how far we have come this past year. Is it all for nothing? Or are we going to show these legislators that we mean what we say and we are going to hold them to the platform and the promises that they made during their campaigns?
Regroup, organize, focus and fight on to the objective, and WIN!
 

Captain Nemo

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
1,029
Location
Somewhere, Wisconsin, USA
Peacemaker:

You mistake bashing with criticism. I as well as other members was a NRA member for years. Myself for forty of them. The NRA presence in Wisconsin was very obvious during the PPA days. When the Personal Protection Act failed the NRA left town. During the years we have been working hard to get open carrry established in Wisconsin the NRA has lended no hand. It reaches thousands of gun owners in Wisconsin with it's media and could be very influential in speading the news, even putting pressure on lawmakers n regards to the vehicle transport and GFSZ laws, yet for the most part it has been silent. It has been for the most part silent in it's support of our legal activities. However, now that Wisconsin has a new political arena and concealed carry is back on the table mark my words we will start hearing from it again as it tries to mold concealed carry to what it feels is in our best interest. Concealed carry is the NRA's first interest. It gives scant interest to choice of carry, especially open carry, even going so far as to publically say Wisconsin is one of two states that don't allow its people to carry firearms for personal protection. You can brand my criticism as bashing if you wish but it is only an expression of my frustration that when we needed the NRA the most to push our cause it seemed to turn its back and walk away.
 
Last edited:

J.Gleason

Banned
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
3,481
Location
Chilton, Wisconsin, USA
Peacemaker:

You mistake bashing with criticism. I as well as other members was a NRA member for years. Myself for forty of them. The NRA presence in Wisconsin was very obvious during the PPA days. When the Personal Protection Act failed the NRA left town. During the years we have been working hard to get open carrry established in Wisconsin the NRA has lended no hand. It reaches thousands of gun owners in Wisconsin with it's media and could be very influential in speading the news, even putting pressure on lawmakers n regards to the vehicle transport and GFSZ laws, yet for the most part it has been silent. It has been for the most part silent in it's support of our legal activities. However, now that Wisconsin has a new political arena and concealed carry is back on the table mark my words we will start hearing from it again as it tries to mold concealed carry to what it feels is in our best interest. Concealed carry is the NRA's first interest. It gives scant interest to choice of carry, especially open carry, even going so far as to publically say Wisconsin is one of two states that don't allow its people to carry firearms for personal protection. You can brand my criticism as bashing if you wish but it is only an expression of my frustration that when we needed the NRA the most to push our cause it seemed to turn its back and walk away.

+1000
 

Captain Nemo

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
1,029
Location
Somewhere, Wisconsin, USA
As an organization unless we become more vocal, proactive and united in our cause for choice of carry I will wager a cup of the best coffee,if and when we meet at Starbucks that this is the way the carry legislation will play out. Any proposed legislation will be crafted as Rep Gunderson, the NRA and Gene German ( don't understimate the influence of Gene German) want it to be crafted. It will be baited. It will be baited with provisions of a Castle Doctrine. It will be baited with the authority to carry a permitted loaded and concealed firearm in a school zone. It will possibly be baited with some kind of exclusion to the vehicle transport law. Outside of this forum there is such a thirst for concealed carry amoung the gun owners of Wisconsin that unless we as an organization get our act together and become more visible in the arena we will be like a chihuahua in a fight with dobermans. I personally feel that the correct road is repeal of 941.23 which in itself would give us constitution protection of choice of carry. Being realistic I don't think that is important to many gun owners. They just want copy-catted concealed carry. We see evidence of that on this forum. The drafters of any proposed carry legislation have almost carte blanche authority to word it in any way they think will get them legislative approval. The Republican majority in the Assembly and Senate, in concert with the Republican promise to pass carry legislation, almost assures passage. Governor Walker will also be little proactive help to our cause. He has said he will sign any carry legislation that passes over his desk. The contents probably are of little concern. I feel we are definitely between a rock and a hard place and unless we stop fighting and start doing we are doomed to go down in flames.

An Attorney General opinion on the constitutionality of 941.23 would surely be welcomed before January. We would then know where to draw the line in the sand.
 
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Peacekeeper

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Messages
171
Location
Fond du Lac Wisconsin
I agree with much of what Peacekeeper says, however, repealing only 941.23 and not dealing with the issues of vehicle carry and GFSZ at the same time would be a mistake in my opinion.

While we are at it in terms of trying to find one voice, how about stopping the NRA bashing that some of you are so intent upon doing at every opportunity. We are likely to be working with the NRA as we seek to obtain concealed carry.

Well that didn't take very long. We are already off topic and out of focus on the very first reply.

If you want to rant about people ranting about the NRA start your own thread.

And whats this concealed carry crap. Concealed carry implies fees, taxes, permits, more state employees, more government control. WCI advocates choice carry - that is carry the way you choose not the governments choice. Sorry if I sound a bit sarcastic, but we have to wake up. The republican party platform advocates lower taxes, smaller government, less government control. Its time to hold their feet to the fire and find out if they really mean what they say or if it was all just lip service to get elected.
 

Peacekeeper

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Messages
171
Location
Fond du Lac Wisconsin
The problem here is that you have the WCI Chairman voicing his opinion that we should fight for the repeal. On the other hand the other board members are standing mute while the henchman/mouth piece is preaching to the choir to accept Gunderson's Bill with out question.

With that in mind, do you blame everyone for getting confused?

I have sent message after message concerning legislators who are willing to help with the repeal. I get no response from WCI. There are to many grudges held over past arguments that won't allow for reasonable communication. It is just plain childish and very unprofessional.

Why should I keep preaching to my legislator that WCI has got the right idea when they won't even back up the statement?

Maybe if we all walk away they will get the picture.

It has become obvious that Spartacus is merely the mouth of which ever elite member does not want to publicly argue on this forum. He is a tool used to bully members into falling in line with the program. That is not the way members here should be treated.
I could care less if your a founding member or not. I could care less if you go to the events or not. It is obvious that it may be best for some of us to avoid the events in order to avoid altercations because of comments and agendas that have been taken to far in this forum. This is VICIOUS AND STUBBORN issue and all I can say is that anyone here who is actually dedicated to the fight should stay on task and ignore any comments made by the disrupter. His behavior is planted in this forum to divide the members here.
There is nothing wrong with being a member of WCI. There is everything wrong with believing that the WCI board members have to make every decision for us or that we can not take any initiatives on our own.

I think Cowboy (Don Marso) is a great example of that.

For any of us to turn tail and just fall in line to accept just any ole CCW Bill all for the sake of us getting a permit is just failure at its best and nothing more.

With that said, if Gunderson comes to the table with a CCW Bill that does not include mandated training, ridiculous fees to cover the cost of the permit, or any compromise of OCW; and if this is the first bill that hits Walkers desk then so be it. It is not a bad start. Does that mean that we should not continue on and fight for the repeal before any bill can be handed to Walker? Hell no! Walker said he would sign either the repeal or a "Reasonable" CCW bill. We have to make sure that "Reasonable" is just that. It is Reasonable to pay say a $5.00 surcharge to cover the cost of the permit. It is reasonable that training should be an option left up to the carrier as mandated training may come with costs that are not affordable to lower income individuals and that is infringement.
Because someone posts on here that we may just have to accept what is offered to us we all give up? Wow, what a disappointment this forum has turned out to be.
I guess it is easier to just give up and accept what is offered then it is to get off your lazy arses and make some phone calls to your legislators. So I guess that means that all this talk in this forum is just that, talk. Only a select few here are really dedicated enough to actually make those calls, send those letters and emails or make those trips to their legislators office.
Or am I wrong here and are we going to keep up the fight and stand our ground? Things worth having need to be fought for. We need to unite and fight together and stop letting others divide us and distract us from the mission.
Look how far we have come this past year. Is it all for nothing? Or are we going to show these legislators that we mean what we say and we are going to hold them to the platform and the promises that they made during their campaigns?
Regroup, organize, focus and fight on to the objective, and WIN!

Someone has to be in charge. Others follow. You talk about reasonable fees and ccw permits. Why is it so difficult to understand that WCI advocates no permits and no fees.
 

Peacekeeper

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Messages
171
Location
Fond du Lac Wisconsin
Peacemaker:

You mistake bashing with criticism. I as well as other members was a NRA member for years. Myself for forty of them. The NRA presence in Wisconsin was very obvious during the PPA days. When the Personal Protection Act failed the NRA left town. During the years we have been working hard to get open carrry established in Wisconsin the NRA has lended no hand. It reaches thousands of gun owners in Wisconsin with it's media and could be very influential in speading the news, even putting pressure on lawmakers n regards to the vehicle transport and GFSZ laws, yet for the most part it has been silent. It has been for the most part silent in it's support of our legal activities. However, now that Wisconsin has a new political arena and concealed carry is back on the table mark my words we will start hearing from it again as it tries to mold concealed carry to what it feels is in our best interest. Concealed carry is the NRA's first interest. It gives scant interest to choice of carry, especially open carry, even going so far as to publically say Wisconsin is one of two states that don't allow its people to carry firearms for personal protection. You can brand my criticism as bashing if you wish but it is only an expression of my frustration that when we needed the NRA the most to push our cause it seemed to turn its back and walk away.

Um, I make NO mention of the NRA in my OP. And this is the first time I've typed those three letters together here on this forum. We need to focus on the WCI stand - hence the opening title - WCI members need to be united. Other groups can do what they want. We need to speak with a better voice.
 

Peacekeeper

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Messages
171
Location
Fond du Lac Wisconsin
As an organization unless we become more vocal, proactive and united in our cause for choice of carry I will wager a cup of the best coffee,if and when we meet at Starbucks that this is the way the carry legislation will play out. Any proposed legislation will be crafted as Rep Gunderson, the NRA and Gene German ( don't understimate the influence of Gene German) want it to be crafted. It will be baited. It will be baited with provisions of a Castle Doctrine. It will be baited with the authority to carry a permitted loaded and concealed firearm in a school zone. It will possibly be baited with some kind of exclusion to the vehicle transport law. Outside of this forum there is such a thirst for concealed carry amoung the gun owners of Wisconsin that unless we as an organization get our act together and become more visible in the arena we will be like a chihuahua in a fight with dobermans. I personally feel that the correct road is repeal of 941.23 which in itself would give us constitution protection of choice of carry. Being realistic I don't think that is important to many gun owners. They just want copy-catted concealed carry. We see evidence of that on this forum. The drafters of any proposed carry legislation have almost carte blanche authority to word it in any way they think will get them legislative approval. The Republican majority in the Assembly and Senate, in concert with the Republican promise to pass carry legislation, almost assures passage. Governor Walker will also be little proactive help to our cause. He has said he will sign any carry legislation that passes over his desk. The contents probably are of little concern. I feel we are definitely between a rock and a hard place and unless we stop fighting and start doing we are doomed to go down in flames.

An Attorney General opinion on the constitutionality of 941.23 would surely be welcomed before January. We would then know where to draw the line in the sand.

Very well said!
 

Brass Magnet

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
2,818
Location
Right Behind You!, Wisconsin, USA
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

What's going on here? Where did all this pissiness with WCI come from? If it all came from Spartacus, that's one member and I think it's unfair that a whole organization is being judged by his conduct. That being said, I think I wouldn't turn a blind eye to it if I were a WCI officer but that's neither here nor there. Also, I think we could all be a little more thick skinned.

I have been around here for quite a while and waited to join WCI until I saw that they were doing some good. I joined; not because of what I think they will do, but because of what they have already done. Racine, GFSZ lawsuit, and now Madison and Brookfield.

People can sit around and Monday morning quarterback all they want but I have not seen WCI deviate from their core principle of "choice of carry" and since it seems that the chairman and I share a base political philosophy I believe whole heartedly; if that philosophy is followed, that freedom of carry will be fought for tooth and nail.

It seems that this supposed deviation from principle is most likely perpetuated in the minds of some that have a hard time differentiating posts made officially by WCI and posts made by it's members.

I would bring forward one idea that may help stop some of the bickering:

People who claim to have "insider information" need to either post sources, not disseminate that information for the sole purpose of gaining some sort of "street cred", or just plain STFU.

That would go a long way in keeping others from feeling they aren't getting it straight.

JMO
 
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comp45acp

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2006
Messages
383
Location
Watertown, WI, ,
deleted moderated post
Doug, serious question here. Why don't you and another person here who are perpetually unhappy about anything and everything anyone else does, just start your own organization? You could then make all the decisions, do everything to absolute perfection all the time and revel in the perfect little bubble that would surround you.
 

Brass Magnet

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
2,818
Location
Right Behind You!, Wisconsin, USA
deleted moderated post

Not particularly, and I'm not going to argue semantics with you Doug. One must be aware of their limitations. Also, I believe I touched on the last part of your post in mine.
 

J.Gleason

Banned
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
3,481
Location
Chilton, Wisconsin, USA
Someone has to be in charge. Others follow. You talk about reasonable fees and ccw permits. Why is it so difficult to understand that WCI advocates no permits and no fees.

I also advocate no fees and no permits and have from the very beginning when many here told me I was nuts to think that Wisconsin could ever get Constitutional Carry. Anyone who has been here for any length of time knows that what I am saying is true.

The point I was making is, that if the legislators choose not to listen to their constituents, that is providing that many here have gotten off their duff and actually contacted them, we may see Walker signing Gunderson's Bill.
Walker said, he would sign any "REASONABLE" Bill. In my opinion a REASONABLE bill would at the very most include a minor fee such as $5.00 for example to pay for the cost of printing the permit and such. No mandated Training, No Compromise for OCW, it would include exempting the holder from vehicle carry restrictions and GFSZ restrictions as well as all of the other unconstitutional infringements that they call gun laws here in Wisconsin. That is the only way I will accept a permit system.

Speaking of leaders, if we all have to be led around by the WCI board members then we deserve what we get. Saying that someone has to be the leader is a cop out, an excuse to do nothing, make no effort, wait for the other guy to do it. It is just plain laziness. Even Forest Gump had a better initiative than that.

By the way how many legislative contacts have we all made today?
 

na559

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2010
Messages
11
Location
Marshall, Wi.
Personally, I think we need to go ALL OUT with no permits, training, etc.
This is the ONLY opertunity we are going to get to push for what we REALLY WANT.
Assume once this goes through, thats all we will probably get.
This won't be up for debate repeatedly.
It'll take years to get anything changed again!
 

J.Gleason

Banned
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
3,481
Location
Chilton, Wisconsin, USA
Personally, I think we need to go ALL OUT with no permits, training, etc.
This is the ONLY opertunity we are going to get to push for what we REALLY WANT.
Assume once this goes through, thats all we will probably get.
This won't be up for debate repeatedly.
It'll take years to get anything changed again!

You got that right!
 

LR Yote 312

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2010
Messages
458
Location
God's Country, Wi
Personally, I think we need to go ALL OUT with no permits, training, etc.
This is the ONLY opertunity we are going to get to push for what we REALLY WANT.
Assume once this goes through, thats all we will probably get.
This won't be up for debate repeatedly.
It'll take years to get anything changed again!

Works for me...
Anything less would trading away the Right we have now for a privilege

LR Yote 312
 

professor gun

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
178
Location
, ,
Well that didn't take very long. We are already off topic and out of focus on the very first reply.

If you want to rant about people ranting about the NRA start your own thread.

And whats this concealed carry crap. Concealed carry implies fees, taxes, permits, more state employees, more government control. WCI advocates choice carry - that is carry the way you choose not the governments choice. Sorry if I sound a bit sarcastic, but we have to wake up. The republican party platform advocates lower taxes, smaller government, less government control. Its time to hold their feet to the fire and find out if they really mean what they say or if it was all just lip service to get elected.

It is not off topic. I am amazed that some of you seem to be fine with the ongoing silly restrictions we presently have regarding carry. Is it really a good idea to just repeal 941.23 and hope that somehow, somebody may some day get around to fixing the vehicular carry issue and the GFSZ issue? I think that is short sighted.
 

TyGuy

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2010
Messages
775
Location
, ,
Do you have anything like IGOLD up there? IGOLD is the Illinois Gun Owner's Lobby Day, basically we get as many gun owners as possible together in the capital, march to the capital building, and then spend the day lobbying our representatives. Perhaps something like that could get going for Wisconsin?
 

Wisconsin Carry Inc. - Chairman

Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Messages
1,197
Location
, ,
James, you are so far off base its shocking. I'm going to respond to this ONCE and put an end to it.

This internet forum has become a JOKE. Every internet forum has garbage to sift through to gather information. But this forum has become more pollution than information. ALL OF YOU GUYS who bicker in EVERY thread have made this forum unuseable. Don't blame anyone else. LOOK IN THE MIRROR. EACH of you.

I will be honest. I read MAYBE 1 out of 10 posts on this garbage filled forum and ANYONE who participates in the mudslinging is equally to blame.

You may think you are "taking on a bully" but the reality is you are just polluting the forum.

To set the record straight.

The problem here is that you have the WCI Chairman voicing his opinion that we should fight for the repeal. On the other hand the other board members are standing mute while the henchman/mouth piece is preaching to the choir to accept Gunderson's Bill with out question.

Hubert has been on vacation at Disneyland with his kids for the past week. With his wife dying unexpectedly a couple months ago, and ALL the time he has devoted to WCI over the past year, I think its well deserved. I'm sure had he known J. Gleason was going to call him out for "standing mute" on topics on OCDO he would have let you know he was going.

Its a shame you have a habit of jumping to your own erroneous conclusions and posting them on this forum as fact when they are not.

I mean honestly J. With all the garbage on this forum do you REALLY think we have time to wade through it, AND do our regular jobs AND do all we do for WCI as volunteers? Sorry, the "forum" is the first thing to get LOW priority.

Another WCI board member has never posted on these forums, so I don't know why you'd expect to hear from him, and Auric and I are posting less and less because the debate is no longer productive. Its just bashing back and forth between a small group of people. I know, you will blame it all on someone else, but you are just as much to blame for proliferating it. Takes 2 to tango.


I have sent message after message concerning legislators who are willing to help with the repeal. I get no response from WCI. There are to many grudges held over past arguments that won't allow for reasonable communication. It is just plain childish and very unprofessional.

I have not received ONE communication from you J. NOT ONE. ONCE again, you are jumping to your own conclusions and posting them as fact.

Why should I keep preaching to my legislator that WCI has got the right idea when they won't even back up the statement?

Maybe if we all walk away they will get the picture.

Who do you mean by "we"??? The few people left on this forum?

WCI is SO much larger than this forum. ONLY a fraction of our membership comes here. I'm sorry if you judge WCI by the participation on this online forum. Our activities are far more than that.

We don't have all day to post and banter. We all have full time jobs. We do a GREAT deal and devote a GREAT deal of time to the cause, but I've come to know it will NEVER be enough for everyone and it certainly will never be enough for you.

WCI does a lot of things. Thousands support it because of the things we do. If you want us to be "everything" you will be dissappointed.

It has become obvious that Spartacus is merely the mouth of which ever elite member does not want to publicly argue on this forum. He is a tool used to bully members into falling in line with the program.

J. now you are SO far off in left field you're bordering on libel. Once again, you jump to erroneous conclusions and spew it out on the board here.

NO ONE speaks for WCI except for the board. NO ONE from the board asks ANYONE to engage in debate for us. NOT NOW, NOT EVER.

The bickering has ruined the Wisconsin forum here on OCDO. WHY in the hell would we encourage someone to stir the pot???

We have no control over what anyone posts. I've asked people to stop bickering. I've asked people to stop bashing back and forth. I've suggested that this is the internet and you CAN'T win an argument online, you can only STOP polluting it. If someone makes a rude post and you respond YOU are part of the problem. You HAVE to be the bigger man and STOP taking shots at people. NO ONE listened. NO ONE. If YOU didn't respond to a request to stop bickering why would you expect ANYONE ELSE that I asked to stop bickering to stop either?

There is nothing wrong with being a member of WCI. There is everything wrong with believing that the WCI board members have to make every decision for us or that we can not take any initiatives on our own.

I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR MONTHS!

DO NOT ask WCI to do what you can do yourself. WE ARE ALL volunteer. For $15 or $100, we do not become your employee that will do EVERYTHING.

There are things WCI can do that individuals may not have the capacity to (file lawsuits etc)

There are other things that ANYONE can do.

WCI cannot, will not, and could never be everything to everyone.

With that said, if Gunderson comes to the table with a CCW Bill that does not include mandated training, ridiculous fees to cover the cost of the permit, or any compromise of OCW; and if this is the first bill that hits Walkers desk then so be it. It is not a bad start.

For our part, WCI will do everything we can to move Wisconsin to a constitutional conceal carry state. That has ALWAYS been our mission and remains our mission. If we end up with Shall-issue this year instead of constitution carry, OUR MISSION DOES NOT CHANGE.

I believe we can get there now, but its at BEST 50 50 odds. I'm looking forward to WHATEVER happens in late spring EVEN if its shall issue, because once we get SHALL ISSUE all the scardy-cats who are SO afraid that if we pushed for constitutional carry we'd end up with NOTHING will have their "shall issue" security blanket and then we can find out who REALLY supports constitution carry and who doesn't. I'm WELL aware WCI has members who today, probably don't care about constitution carry. They have been starved for years for right to carry and they'll accept anything. I ALSO know that once they begin to pay for training and pay for permits and then have to RENEW those permits and perhaps pay for MORE training when they renew... They'll some day realize constitution carry is where we need to be. WHEN THEY DO WCI will still be here, still be fighting.

When those in love with shall-issue get charged with disorderly conduct or disturbing the peace for "printing" or for some mamby-pamby old lady liberal seeing a peek of their gun inside their jacket when they reach up to pull a can of beans off of the top-store shelf, WISCONSIN CARRY INC. will be there to back them up and protect their rights.

Shall-issue is not the promised land, it is not the miracle cure. Many believe it is. WCI is here for the LOOONG haul.

WCI has a plan to end-around all the people who want to leverage the government to drive $ to their door (mass FREE training to meet a training requirement IF it is put in place) We plan to give FREE training to 1000's because we don't believe government should be allowed to be leveraged to drive profit for private businesses (instructors)

We believe in the free market AND the value of voluntary training within that free market.

What if there was a shall-issue permit system that expanded OC rights without a permit?

What if a shall-issue permit system was passed that left OC without a permit as-is and changed the GFSZ's to school property only and removed 167.31????

Thus making OC WAY more practical in WAY more places?

Will you bash that as a 'compromise'?

WCI will not be able to please everyone.

Legislation aside, WCI does MANY things. We file lawsuits to protect rights. We promote choice of carry. We educate the public, and many other facets of the cause.

Legislation is the HARDEST part because we ALL know the legislative process is a SLIMY SLIMY world with backroom deals and favors and complex bills.

I'll be honest, its the part of the movement that I HATE the most.

I love promoting the cause, meeting people, educating them on OC, using the courts to address the rights of law abiding people being violated. Legislation is SLIMY, its UGLY, and its the part of what we do that I detest. But we feel we must participate in that process.

Wow, what a disappointment this forum has turned out to be.

D@mn right it sure has

I
guess it is easier to just give up and accept what is offered then it is to get off your lazy arses and make some phone calls to your legislators. So I guess that means that all this talk in this forum is just that, talk.

YES. This forum is JUST talk. The REAL work happens off the forum. You guys with too much time on your hands use this forum as entertainment to bash each other and fill your day with DRAMA.

So get off the forum, stop the nonsense and DO SOMETHING REAL.

SO there is NO confusion, please note that WCI is becoming less and less active in these forums because they are polluted.

WCI will continue to post announcements here but do not expect us to try to WADE through pages and pages of absolutely POINTLESS bashing back and forth.

WCI has our facebook page to deliver information as well.

We have been working diligently on a new professional website that will be MUCH more interactive and allow us to post content (announcements, articles, and such) and people will be allowed to post comments but we will ZAP ANY bull$hit comments that are posted.

EVERY welcome letter that we send out to a new member use to contain a link to this discussion forum. WE will NO longer provide a link to this forum in our welcome letter, ONLY links to our facebook page, website, twitter, and youtube account.

ALL you guys who have too much time on your hands that you can come here and bash each other every day, call names, blame, accuse, float conspiracy theory have made this necessary. You made it a forum full of more pollution than information. That was SO important to you that you just COULDN'T control your desire to bash back and forth incessantly. So enjoy.

Carry On
 
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