James, you are so far off base its shocking. I'm going to respond to this ONCE and put an end to it.
This internet forum has become a JOKE. Every internet forum has garbage to sift through to gather information. But this forum has become more pollution than information. ALL OF YOU GUYS who bicker in EVERY thread have made this forum unuseable. Don't blame anyone else. LOOK IN THE MIRROR. EACH of you.
I will be honest. I read MAYBE 1 out of 10 posts on this garbage filled forum and ANYONE who participates in the mudslinging is equally to blame.
You may think you are "taking on a bully" but the reality is you are just polluting the forum.
To set the record straight.
The problem here is that you have the WCI Chairman voicing his opinion that we should fight for the repeal. On the other hand the other board members are standing mute while the henchman/mouth piece is preaching to the choir to accept Gunderson's Bill with out question.
Hubert has been on vacation at Disneyland with his kids for the past week. With his wife dying unexpectedly a couple months ago, and ALL the time he has devoted to WCI over the past year, I think its well deserved. I'm sure had he known J. Gleason was going to call him out for "standing mute" on topics on OCDO he would have let you know he was going.
Its a shame you have a
habit of jumping to your own erroneous conclusions and posting them on this forum as fact when they are not.
I mean honestly J. With all the garbage on this forum do you REALLY think we have time to wade through it, AND do our regular jobs AND do all we do for WCI as volunteers? Sorry, the "forum" is the first thing to get LOW priority.
Another WCI board member has never posted on these forums, so I don't know why you'd expect to hear from him, and Auric and I are posting less and less because the debate is no longer productive. Its just bashing back and forth between a small group of people. I know, you will blame it all on someone else, but you are just as much to blame for proliferating it. Takes 2 to tango.
I have sent message after message concerning legislators who are willing to help with the repeal. I get no response from WCI. There are to many grudges held over past arguments that won't allow for reasonable communication. It is just plain childish and very unprofessional.
I have not received ONE communication from you J. NOT ONE. ONCE again, you are jumping to your own conclusions and posting them as fact.
Why should I keep preaching to my legislator that WCI has got the right idea when they won't even back up the statement?
Maybe if we all walk away they will get the picture.
Who do you mean by "we"??? The few people left on this forum?
WCI is SO much larger than this forum. ONLY a fraction of our membership comes here. I'm sorry if you judge WCI by the participation on this online forum. Our activities are far more than that.
We don't have all day to post and banter. We all have full time jobs. We do a GREAT deal and devote a GREAT deal of time to the cause, but I've come to know it will NEVER be enough for everyone and it certainly will never be enough for you.
WCI does a lot of things. Thousands support it because of the things we do. If you want us to be "everything" you will be dissappointed.
It has become obvious that Spartacus is merely the mouth of which ever elite member does not want to publicly argue on this forum. He is a tool used to bully members into falling in line with the program.
J. now you are SO far off in left field you're bordering on libel. Once again, you jump to erroneous conclusions and spew it out on the board here.
NO ONE speaks for WCI except for the board. NO ONE from the board asks ANYONE to engage in debate for us. NOT NOW, NOT EVER.
The bickering has ruined the Wisconsin forum here on OCDO. WHY in the hell would we encourage someone to stir the pot???
We have no control over what anyone posts. I've asked people to stop bickering. I've asked people to stop bashing back and forth. I've suggested that this is the internet and you CAN'T win an argument online, you can only STOP polluting it. If someone makes a rude post and you respond YOU are part of the problem. You HAVE to be the bigger man and STOP taking shots at people. NO ONE listened. NO ONE. If YOU didn't respond to a request to stop bickering why would you expect ANYONE ELSE that I asked to stop bickering to stop either?
There is nothing wrong with being a member of WCI. There is everything wrong with believing that the WCI board members have to make every decision for us or that we can not take any initiatives on our own.
I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR MONTHS!
DO NOT ask WCI to do what you can do yourself. WE ARE ALL volunteer. For $15 or $100, we do not become your employee that will do EVERYTHING.
There are things WCI can do that individuals may not have the capacity to (file lawsuits etc)
There are other things that ANYONE can do.
WCI cannot, will not, and could never be everything to everyone.
With that said, if Gunderson comes to the table with a CCW Bill that does not include mandated training, ridiculous fees to cover the cost of the permit, or any compromise of OCW; and if this is the first bill that hits Walkers desk then so be it. It is not a bad start.
For our part, WCI will do everything we can to move Wisconsin to a constitutional conceal carry state. That has ALWAYS been our mission and remains our mission. If we end up with Shall-issue this year instead of constitution carry, OUR MISSION DOES NOT CHANGE.
I believe we can get there now, but its at BEST 50 50 odds. I'm looking forward to WHATEVER happens in late spring EVEN if its shall issue, because once we get SHALL ISSUE all the scardy-cats who are SO afraid that if we pushed for constitutional carry we'd end up with NOTHING will have their "shall issue" security blanket and then we can find out who REALLY supports constitution carry and who doesn't. I'm WELL aware WCI has members who today, probably don't care about constitution carry. They have been starved for years for right to carry and they'll accept anything. I ALSO know that once they begin to pay for training and pay for permits and then have to RENEW those permits and perhaps pay for MORE training when they renew... They'll some day realize constitution carry is where we need to be. WHEN THEY DO WCI will still be here, still be fighting.
When those in love with shall-issue get charged with disorderly conduct or disturbing the peace for "printing" or for some mamby-pamby old lady liberal seeing a peek of their gun inside their jacket when they reach up to pull a can of beans off of the top-store shelf, WISCONSIN CARRY INC. will be there to back them up and protect their rights.
Shall-issue is not the promised land, it is not the miracle cure. Many believe it is. WCI is here for the LOOONG haul.
WCI has a plan to end-around all the people who want to leverage the government to drive $ to their door (mass FREE training to meet a training requirement IF it is put in place) We plan to give FREE training to 1000's because we don't believe government should be allowed to be leveraged to drive profit for private businesses (instructors)
We believe in the free market AND the value of voluntary training within that free market.
What if there was a shall-issue permit system that expanded OC rights without a permit?
What if a shall-issue permit system was passed that left OC without a permit as-is and changed the GFSZ's to school property only and removed 167.31????
Thus making OC WAY more practical in WAY more places?
Will you bash that as a 'compromise'?
WCI will not be able to please everyone.
Legislation aside, WCI does MANY things. We file lawsuits to protect rights. We promote choice of carry. We educate the public, and many other facets of the cause.
Legislation is the HARDEST part because we ALL know the legislative process is a SLIMY SLIMY world with backroom deals and favors and complex bills.
I'll be honest, its the part of the movement that I HATE the most.
I love promoting the cause, meeting people, educating them on OC, using the courts to address the rights of law abiding people being violated. Legislation is SLIMY, its UGLY, and its the part of what we do that I detest. But we feel we must participate in that process.
Wow, what a disappointment this forum has turned out to be.
D@mn right it sure has
I
guess it is easier to just give up and accept what is offered then it is to get off your lazy arses and make some phone calls to your legislators. So I guess that means that all this talk in this forum is just that, talk.
YES. This forum is JUST talk. The REAL work happens off the forum. You guys with too much time on your hands use this forum as entertainment to bash each other and fill your day with DRAMA.
So get off the forum, stop the nonsense and DO SOMETHING REAL.
SO there is NO confusion, please note that WCI is becoming less and less active in these forums because they are polluted.
WCI will continue to post announcements here but do not expect us to try to WADE through pages and pages of absolutely POINTLESS bashing back and forth.
WCI has our facebook page to deliver information as well.
We have been working diligently on a new professional website that will be MUCH more interactive and allow us to post content (announcements, articles, and such) and people will be allowed to post comments but we will ZAP ANY bull$hit comments that are posted.
EVERY welcome letter that we send out to a new member use to contain a link to this discussion forum. WE will NO longer provide a link to this forum in our welcome letter, ONLY links to our facebook page, website, twitter, and youtube account.
ALL you guys who have too much time on your hands that you can come here and bash each other every day, call names, blame, accuse, float conspiracy theory have made this necessary. You made it a forum full of more pollution than information. That was SO important to you that you just COULDN'T control your desire to bash back and forth incessantly. So enjoy.
Carry On