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Thread: so, how about them Dems in Iowa?

  1. #1
    Regular Member Slave's Avatar
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    so, how about them Dems in Iowa?

    So, just Michigan Dems are gun grabbing fascists, while Michigan Reublicans are the Sacred Bestowers of 2A Rights?

    http://www.desmoinesregister.com/art...y-with-gun-law

    Or are Iowa Dems just Republicans in disguise?

    Or Does Iowa prove my point that you forgoe this notion that Blue = Nazi Gun Takers and Red = God Delivered Gun Rights Protectors, and instead do as I have been saying and vote for the candidate that will respect our rights the most.

    I would love to have the rights that Iowa has, they absolutely destroy our little pitiful pseudo license that we are allowed to act like we have rights.

    We need to vote in some people like they did, so we can have a license that allows us to carry a knife, pistol and rifle, out in the open, anywhere we go.

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    I disagree with your premise that we have a "right to a license"... individual rights should not be licensed.

    Also, Michiganders can carry a firearm openly without a license and no license is needed to carry a knife in any fashion (length and type of knife is restricted). Your comparison isn't very good here.

    But you are correct on the point that too many gun owners take: that Democrat = gun grabber and Republican = full autos for everyone. That's not reality.

    I think the more interesting thing about this article is the Sheriff response...
    Last edited by Sefner; 11-11-2010 at 08:58 AM.

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    Regular Member Slave's Avatar
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    Did you read the lack of pistol free zones?

    And yes, we michiganders sure can open carry. It's great! Army74 and Stainless 1911 are having great success open carrying in Waterford and Pontiac. No issues for Hamandeggs at all. Those guys at CiCi's had no issues. Nope, none at all! Michigan is an AWESOME state for OC!

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Iowa just recently got shall issue. In the recent past the Sheriff in each county would decide if you could carry a weapon period.

    I am not sure what your point in posting was Slave. It seems as if you post to cause dissension a good share of the time.

    We are aware that PFZ's are dumb and need to go. Nor has anyone said we are better than any other state. In fact I know that most of us want Constitutional carry where no license is needed if you are a decent law abiding citizen.

    As for Dems VS Repubs. that has allot to do with the individual not party affiliation. Anyone that thinks otherwise is foolish. However at least in this state the Dem that ran for Gov and his running mate would in no way have been good for RTKBA.

    This means that we the people must VET each person regardless of party and determine the best person based on our personal convictions and what we feel is the most important.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    as a "blanket statement," it has historically been somewhat useful. But blanket statements are not accurate in operation. There are pro-gun politicians in both main political parties. There are anti-gun politicians in both main political parties. But, as a blanket statement, the party platforms of one or the other DO have a general difference in regards to gun control. I do feel that some of this difference rests in the "the government WILL protect you" standpoint of the liberal view.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slave View Post
    So, just Michigan Dems are gun grabbing fascists, while Michigan Reublicans are the Sacred Bestowers of 2A Rights?

    http://www.desmoinesregister.com/art...y-with-gun-law

    Or are Iowa Dems just Republicans in disguise?

    Or Does Iowa prove my point that you forgoe this notion that Blue = Nazi Gun Takers and Red = God Delivered Gun Rights Protectors, and instead do as I have been saying and vote for the candidate that will respect our rights the most.

    I would love to have the rights that Iowa has, they absolutely destroy our little pitiful pseudo license that we are allowed to act like we have rights.

    We need to vote in some people like they did, so we can have a license that allows us to carry a knife, pistol and rifle, out in the open, anywhere we go.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slave View Post
    Did you read the lack of pistol free zones?
    No, I only read where they can consume alcohol as long as they stay under the legal limit for intoxication.

    I didn't read anything about a lack of pistol free zones in that article....perhaps I missed it.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

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    I think I need to vent here

    Iowa pretty much only bans k-12 schools, that is MUCH better than MI. MI has horrible knife laws (I tried to contact reps to get it changed) and we have horrible long arm laws when carrying in a vehicle. You can even drink under Iowa's new law and carry (0.08 limit), and you don't have to notify the cop when you are carrying so you can actually be discreet if you are conceal carrying around a group of people that you may not want to advertise that you are armed to by nature of informing the LEO.

    So you can open carry on foot in MI without a permit, big deal. Most people have a permit because most of us drive.... so I don't know why a lot of people act like MI is a gold star state like VA or NV. Having the unlicensed open carry on foot rule is semantics because you will most likely transition from "on foot" to "vehicle mode" before you go home, and also, even if you walk around the block in sterile carry mode, you pretty much can't go into most stores without a CPL because of 234d and if Delaware v Prouse is a good indicator, I would recommend having the permit on your person when you go into a 234d zone.

    Iowa's permit covers ALL weapons and overall is a much better situation than MI.

    And yes, the Democrats in Iowa did the right thing, and they passed a pretty damn good carry law in Iowa compared to what most of the recent "GOP" sponsored carry bills in other states look like. Iowa passed shall-issue with FULL recognition of out of state permits (no home state permit nonsense) even above the sheriff's objections... unlike Michigan where the republicans bent over for the MI State Police and decided against full registration repeal 2 years ago.

    Also, Iowa doesn't have 50,000 convictions that can disqualify you for a permit like Michigan. Disorderly conduct (the favorite LEO catch-all) gives you an 8 year ban on a CPL in MI.

    And regarding the "republicans" in Nevada.... they seem to have a hard time getting full retroactive preemption and getting rid of their unconsitutional knife and other weapon laws. Believe it or not, Nevada still has a may-issue permit for a knife per NRS 202.350 (not for an evil switchblade though). Before the Nevada calvary gets up in arms and points out Bernie Anderson to me, I have two words for you... DISCHARGE PETITION. Now that Bernie is retired and probably at the Grand Sierra in Reno smoking cheap cigars and taking up space and breathing other peoples air, lets see what Nevada can get done this year.

    Back to Michigan, I know we all have bills we want to get through and I've submitted some to a couple of reps and senators, the true believers in Lansing like my bills, but they said the first priority is registration repeal... if we can't get that with all the Republicans we have next year... then I'd rather trade them for last years Democrats in Iowa, think of it as a "capitol exchange program".
    Last edited by Jared; 11-11-2010 at 12:10 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    No, I only read where they can consume alcohol as long as they stay under the legal limit for intoxication.

    I didn't read anything about a lack of pistol free zones in that article....perhaps I missed it.

    Bronson
    Iowa didn't add any new places off limits when they passed shall-issue, the only thing they did add was that your permit becomes invalid if you have a BAC of 0.08 or greater.... which is completely reasonable and not something I would have objected to.

    The only thing Iowa needs to do is to eventually go constitution carry and become a Class 3 State.

    The other change is that Iowa got rid of the non-resident "Non-Professional Permit To Carry Weapons" and in exchange, recognizes all out of state licenses for any nonresident (not just home state non-residents). The reality is that the DPS does not issue non-residents licenses anyway. They always have and still will be able to issue a "Professional Permit To Carry Weapons" which is good everywhere in the state, even schools, but they are only for employment purposes.... similar to an Act 235 license in Pennsylvania.

    Also, under the new law (the same as the old law), you can still open carry on foot in unincorporated areas of the state; however, that was pretty much useless anyway but I'm sure it benefited some folks out in rural areas.
    Last edited by Jared; 11-11-2010 at 12:22 PM.

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    Regular Member Slave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by autosurgeon View Post
    Iowa just recently got shall issue. In the recent past the Sheriff in each county would decide if you could carry a weapon period.

    I am not sure what your point in posting was Slave. It seems as if you post to cause dissension a good share of the time.

    We are aware that PFZ's are dumb and need to go. Nor has anyone said we are better than any other state. In fact I know that most of us want Constitutional carry where no license is needed if you are a decent law abiding citizen.

    As for Dems VS Repubs. that has allot to do with the individual not party affiliation. Anyone that thinks otherwise is foolish. However at least in this state the Dem that ran for Gov and his running mate would in no way have been good for RTKBA.

    This means that we the people must VET each person regardless of party and determine the best person based on our personal convictions and what we feel is the most important.
    My point was to show that we gun owners need to vote person, not party. You honestly can not say that the overwhelming opinion is that Obama and his merry band or Democrats are the gun grabbers, and the republica@s are the giver of rights.

    I argued that party doesn't matter, and have been flamed, called a troll, and several other things.

    This just showed my whole point. If we Michigan gun owners could get the politics out of our second amendment rights, and just vote all 2A politicians in, regardless of party, then we too could have a pistol free zone license like this.

    If you are offended by my posts Autosurgeon, don't read them. You think I am being decisive, you are correct, I am tired of people voting along party lines to get us gun rights.

    There is no party, and every chance I get to show a republican screwing us out of our 2A rights, and a Democrat helping us, I will post.

    I did not vote for Binero, but if his views where switched with Snyder's, I would have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jared View Post
    And regarding the "republicans" in Nevada.... they seem to have a hard time getting full retroactive preemption and getting rid of their unconsitutional knife and other weapon laws. Believe it or not, Nevada still has a may-issue permit for a knife per NRS 202.350 (not for an evil switchblade though). Before the Nevada calvary gets up in arms and points out Bernie Anderson to me, I have two words for you... DISCHARGE PETITION. Now that Bernie is retired and probably at the Grand Sierra in Reno smoking cheap cigars and taking up space and breathing other peoples air, lets see what Nevada can get done this year.
    Directly regarding preemption, unless Clark County gets off their collective backsides and makes this happen, it will not be very likely. Unfortunately, the population center leaders DO have a large modicum of control at the state level. Other than in Clark County, statewide preemption is virtual fact. (a FEW very minor enclaves may remain).

    As for Bernie Anderson, a recall or discharge would only have been possible if presented by his specific area. Many of us who butted heads at that are NOT in that area, so cannot provide effective change. He did completely sit upon good legislation in committee, in spite if VERY vigorous efforts to get the other committee members to override him. The unfortunate reality is that a committee chair has virtually unlimited power to either forward or squash legislation. I don't like it one bit, but we must work with the system we have; unless it can be changed.

    Keep a close watch this year, a possible "sea change" is possible. The back-channel chatter is very heartening.
    Last edited by wrightme; 11-11-2010 at 03:05 PM.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slave View Post
    My point was to show that we gun owners need to vote person, not party. You honestly can not say that the overwhelming opinion is that Obama and his merry band or Democrats are the gun grabbers, and the republica@s are the giver of rights.
    ?? That IS the overwhelming opinion, correct or not.

    It should be noted that many Dems are not anti-gun, and there are Reps who ARE anti-gun. The generalizations are generally accurate, and I personally vote either side of the aisle or the middle itself if that is where the proper candidates are. I consider myself a Republican by affiliation, but vote just about a complete NRA ticket.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slave
    I argued that party doesn't matter, and have been flamed, called a troll, and several other things.
    Arguing that party doesn't matter is avoidance of reality. While good candidates exist on both sides, the virtual lockstep voting bloc of the Senate majority party does give lie to that generality. Party DOES matter, as long as those in charge of the party hold the power to force such votes upon party line, as opposed to allowing each Senator or Representative to vote for their constituency.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slave
    This just showed my whole point. If we Michigan gun owners could get the politics out of our second amendment rights, and just vote all 2A politicians in, regardless of party, then we too could have a pistol free zone license like this.
    As an overall goal, this is reasonable. As a realistic goal, the majority party will override your goal if the 2A isn't a goal of the majority party. It ain't pretty, but that IS the reality.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slave
    There is no party, and every chance I get to show a republican screwing us out of our 2A rights, and a Democrat helping us, I will post.
    As a better suggestion, do that for EACH politician, regardless of party. Otherwise, you are simply doing the same thing that you don't like in others.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slave View Post

    There is no party, and every chance I get to show a republican screwing us out of our 2A rights, and a Democrat helping us, I will post.
    And what exactly is the point in doing that? Are you trying to prove that some dems are pro-2A and some repubs anti-2A? You really don't have to prove anything, anyone with half a brain can come to that determination on their own.

    Just out of curiosity, are you going to post every time a a dem tries to screw us and a repub does something good, or are you only going to attempt to promote the democratic party?

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    Regular Member Slave's Avatar
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    Well, unti the DEMS ARE GUN GRABBIN AGAIN!.!..!.. posts stop, I will.

    The average poster here thinks the above. I a more conservative independant who votes red more than he votes blue by a long shot, but the amount of posts here that bash dems, Obama and praise republicans make me sick. Read how many sigs and avatars here are anti dem and anti Obama.

    This thread is so irritating because it's the opposite of the consensus opinion.

    We could be so lucky as to have Iowa's dems, we could have a real CPL.

    Hell, Worthy is still convicting people for having 2 guns, as our CPL technically says "a" pistol.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slave View Post
    Well, unti the DEMS ARE GUN GRABBIN AGAIN!.!..!.. posts stop, I will.

    The average poster here thinks the above. I a more conservative independant who votes red more than he votes blue by a long shot, but the amount of posts here that bash dems, Obama and praise republicans make me sick. Read how many sigs and avatars here are anti dem and anti Obama.

    This thread is so irritating because it's the opposite of the consensus opinion.

    We could be so lucky as to have Iowa's dems, we could have a real CPL.

    Hell, Worthy is still convicting people for having 2 guns, as our CPL technically says "a" pistol.
    Worthy has said she would... but I know of NO case where she actually did.

    Also this is really not the board for politics.. I know you are frustrated with what you perceive as a bash on you... however people have the right to believe what they want to...regardless of whether it is true or not.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slave View Post
    Well, unti the DEMS ARE GUN GRABBIN AGAIN!.!..!.. posts stop, I will.

    The average poster here thinks the above. I a more conservative independant who votes red more than he votes blue by a long shot, but the amount of posts here that bash dems, Obama and praise republicans make me sick. Read how many sigs and avatars here are anti dem and anti Obama.

    This thread is so irritating because it's the opposite of the consensus opinion.

    We could be so lucky as to have Iowa's dems, we could have a real CPL.

    Hell, Worthy is still convicting people for having 2 guns, as our CPL technically says "a" pistol.
    Really? What IS the consensus opinion, in your opinion?
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Regular Member Slave's Avatar
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    Really? You actually believe the consensus don't think that Dems = Bad, Rebubs = Good? (when it comes to guns)

    Really? People didn't go out an horde ammo because Obama was elected?

    Really? Said ammo grab didn't cause a shortage?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slave View Post
    Really? You actually believe the consensus don't think that Dems = Bad, Rebubs = Good? (when it comes to guns)

    Really? People didn't go out an horde ammo because Obama was elected?

    Really? Said ammo grab didn't cause a shortage?
    I see. It appeared from your wording that you were claiming the exact opposite.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Judging from his posts, I think he feels that pro or anti can come from either side of the fence.

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    Michigan law is clear on carrying mulitple pistols

    Quote Originally Posted by Slave View Post
    Well, unti the DEMS ARE GUN GRABBIN AGAIN!.!..!.. posts stop, I will.

    Hell, Worthy is still convicting people for having 2 guns, as our CPL technically says "a" pistol.
    Have you heard of anyone actually being convicted of this? Michigan law is clear. Here is what the MCL says on it.

    8.3b Singular and plural; gender.

    Sec. 3b.

    Every word importing the singular number only may extend to and embrace the plural number, and every word importing the plural number may be applied and limited to the singular number. Every word importing the masculine gender only may extend and be applied to females as well as males.
    It appears that the state police are clueless and that Kym Worthy is not "worthy" of being a prosecutor since she is clearly unqualified. If she can't understand this basic concept as stated in the MCL, then she must have been some sort of affirmative action graduate.

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    Regular Member CharleyMarbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Judging from his posts, I think he feels that pro or anti can come from either side of the fence.
    Well if that is his position I have to agree DUH ! ! ! but the fact is he seams to be trying to take the "underdog" side of things as he see's it, And as I see it he has shown his hand as a full on Democratic supporter? Now just so we are clear I don't have a problem with anyone "picking" sides but and I certainly would never wish to strip anyone of their autonomy but when you step into a theater and shout fire you best know enuff to get the hell outta the way or your gonna get run over :0

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    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    Directly regarding preemption, unless Clark County gets off their collective backsides and makes this happen, it will not be very likely. Unfortunately, the population center leaders DO have a large modicum of control at the state level. Other than in Clark County, statewide preemption is virtual fact. (a FEW very minor enclaves may remain).

    As for Bernie Anderson, a recall or discharge would only have been possible if presented by his specific area. Many of us who butted heads at that are NOT in that area, so cannot provide effective change. He did completely sit upon good legislation in committee, in spite if VERY vigorous efforts to get the other committee members to override him. The unfortunate reality is that a committee chair has virtually unlimited power to either forward or squash legislation. I don't like it one bit, but we must work with the system we have; unless it can be changed.

    Keep a close watch this year, a possible "sea change" is possible. The back-channel chatter is very heartening.
    I understand that it may have been hard to overrule Backstabbing Bernie when he was comittee chair; however, there were other ways to achieve this. In Rhode Island, the general assembly has been known to assign bills to a committee that is completely unrelated to the actual bill, also, people in the Rhode Island general assembly have been known to lose their chairs if they didn't play ball.

    I am curious, what is being proposed in Nevada? I'm aware of a stand your ground bill as well as another bill to enable a CHP holder to carry any semi-auto if they qualify with one.

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    The Committee Chair had the power to sit on our bills. He was supported by the leader of the assembly. They were Democrats, and bills just sat there. There was NO way to force it through, as it went the direction required. He was "playing ball" to avoid losing his chair.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jared View Post
    I understand that it may have been hard to overrule Backstabbing Bernie when he was comittee chair; however, there were other ways to achieve this. In Rhode Island, the general assembly has been known to assign bills to a committee that is completely unrelated to the actual bill, also, people in the Rhode Island general assembly have been known to lose their chairs if they didn't play ball.

    I am curious, what is being proposed in Nevada? I'm aware of a stand your ground bill as well as another bill to enable a CHP holder to carry any semi-auto if they qualify with one.
    I know of at least one other bill, and since the text of them is as yet unavailable, it isn't clear. but it deals with "fees and other aspects of CCW." Knowing the bill presenter(sponsor), It isn't an anti-bill.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Regular Member Slave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharleyMarbles View Post
    Well if that is his position I have to agree DUH ! ! ! but the fact is he seams to be trying to take the "underdog" side of things as he see's it, And as I see it he has shown his hand as a full on Democratic supporter? Now just so we are clear I don't have a problem with anyone "picking" sides but and I certainly would never wish to strip anyone of their autonomy but when you step into a theater and shout fire you best know enuff to get the hell outta the way or your gonna get run over :0
    Nah, I actually vote Red like 85% of the time

    I just don't like who Republican politicians get a free pass on MY 2A rights, and good Dems are nearly automatically demonized.

    Carry on guys.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slave View Post
    Dems....demonized.
    Brought to you by the Department of Redundancy Dept.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Slave View Post
    Nah, I actually vote Red like 85% of the time

    I just don't like who Republican politicians get a free pass on MY 2A rights, and good Dems are nearly automatically demonized.

    Carry on guys.
    That only happens in the made up world in that little head of yours. I love how you think you are some enlightening messiah of political savvy this board.

    Here a clue for you:
    We don’t need your help; we are all smart enough to think for ourselves regardless of what you believe.

    You must know what is better for me than me. Gee sounds like typical liberal rhetoric to me. Go post on a political forum or piss up a rope your choice.

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