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Thread: chamber-schmamber-its-too-late-to-draw-your-gun

  1. #1
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    chamber-schmamber-its-too-late-to-draw-your-gun

    http://thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/11...draw-your-gun/

    Video at link.

    Adding more fuel to the how-to-carry debate...

  2. #2
    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    Nice video.

    When I started carrying I carried unchambered for about 4 months until I became comfortable carrying one in the chamber. For me I wanted to have confidence in the gun that I was carrying that it wouldn't discharge if dropped and had sufficient internal safeties.


    I understand peoples comfort level and recommend they carry one in the chamber but hate when states like CA require even the magazine to be out of the gun.

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    Regular Member Coded-Dude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45acpForMe View Post
    Nice video.

    When I started carrying I carried unchambered for about 4 months until I became comfortable carrying one in the chamber. For me I wanted to have confidence in the gun that I was carrying that it wouldn't discharge if dropped and had sufficient internal safeties.


    I understand peoples comfort level and recommend they carry one in the chamber but hate when states like CA require even the magazine to be out of the gun.
    only if the magazine is loaded......lol. nothing wrong with having an empty mag in your gun in CA(except that you are now less capable of defending yourself in a timely fashion).
    If guns cause crime.....mine must be defective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 45acpForMe View Post
    Nice video.

    When I started carrying I carried unchambered for about 4 months until I became comfortable carrying one in the chamber. For me I wanted to have confidence in the gun that I was carrying that it wouldn't discharge if dropped and had sufficient internal safeties.


    I understand peoples comfort level and recommend they carry one in the chamber but hate when states like CA require even the magazine to be out of the gun.
    I carried unchambered initially. As time went by, I became less ignorant. I carry in condition 1 now and practice draw, safety, target, fire and also draw, safety, fire.

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    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    Hehe...looks like a reason to OC rather than CC to me.
    Last edited by sultan62; 11-11-2010 at 05:54 PM.
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    My observations on this video---

    Given that she has already explored the option of escape and found none.... (caps for emphasis) WHY DOES SHE NOT HAVE HER HAND ON THE WEAPON AND OR HAVE IT DRAWN ALREADY AND IN LOW READY POSITION after the potential assailant has failed to follow the command to give her more space?

    If you are in a situation where you are actively looking for a means of escape.... GIVE VERBAL COMMANDS FOR THE "ASSAILANT" TO BACK AWAY, if that fails--- Draw you weapon! DON'T WAIT FOR THE ASSAILANT TO MAKE THE LUNGE BEFORE YOU'VE ACTED POSITIVELY! Notice I didn't say FIRE the weapon-- I said draw the weapon! I didn't say but understand you are backing away to create more distance (if able). And if he fails to stop his aggressive actions-- raise your weapon and prepare to defend you life (finger in trigger-guard after weapon has been raised to place 2 quickly in the center of presented mass IF THE TWERP FAILS TO STOP).

    And I agree, an empty chamber means YOU HAVE A PAPERWEIGHT or A THROWING WEAPON but it ain't a gun!

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    So the moral of the story is don't bring a gun to a knife fight?

    the proper tool for the situation is always nice. Given her reaction if her assailant had assumed using a dirk type blade instead of a shorter slashing knife she would probably be dead.

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    Cute but there are several flaws with this video.

    They are actors and know what is coming. In an actual extreme encounter, there are so many variables that one would be hard pressed to even begin to list them. And chances are pretty good that a victim is not going to see an attack coming from its inception; its very beginning.

    They are not using real weapons. This and because of the fact that they are actors and know that neither one of them is going to get injured, means that they are free to respond quickly for the camera. In reality, not only might a victim be caught off guard, but there is also the introduction of the questioning/hesitation of one's reaction to a violent attack. Most people, when faced with something like this in the sudden extreme, take a moment or so to gather their wits and initiate a response. Even well trained people evaluate a situation before responding with force simply because they naturally will attempt to gather information both for delivering fire and surviving the encounter.

    What this means is that your firearm needs to be ready for immediate use and in a position where you can get to it as quickly as possible. Time and distance are your friends along with cover and where needed, concealment. However, these are ideal conditions and are not likely to exist in the all together if and when an attack comes.
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    My first thought while I was watching this video was why did she allow him to get so close before she did anything?!? I would already have my gun out and at LEAST at low ready, if not high ready, with the safety OFF. At that distance, I want to be able to put as many as I need CM ASAP if he doesn't back off. I would rather be accused of brandishing than be dead! I have always carried in condition one, from the time I started to carry. I know my gun, I know how it works, I know it's not going to go off accidently (1911) and I trust my gun to defend my life. As this video so clearly shows, a gun will do you no good unless it's ready to use. Good situational awareness would not have let him get that close.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby View Post
    My first thought while I was watching this video was why did she allow him to get so close before she did anything?!?
    I remind people that when your hand is up and you are yelling not to come any closer and that you are armed, you better damn-well be gripping your sidearm with the other hand and drawing it. Because while you are yelling, hoping the SOB stops, they are gaining ground and you are losing precious seconds.

    My reaction is the same...hand goes up, declaration, drawing sidearm, all at the same time.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby View Post
    My first thought while I was watching this video was why did she allow him to get so close before she did anything?!? I would already have my gun out and at LEAST at low ready, if not high ready, with the safety OFF. At that distance, I want to be able to put as many as I need CM ASAP if he doesn't back off. I would rather be accused of brandishing than be dead! I have always carried in condition one, from the time I started to carry. I know my gun, I know how it works, I know it's not going to go off accidently (1911) and I trust my gun to defend my life. As this video so clearly shows, a gun will do you no good unless it's ready to use. Good situational awareness would not have let him get that close.
    An assailant is unlikely to telegraph their intentions from great distance. Would you draw your gun to sul every time somebody gets within 21' in the Wal-Mart parking lot?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DustoneGT View Post
    An assailant is unlikely to telegraph their intentions from great distance. Would you draw your gun to sul every time somebody gets within 21' in the Wal-Mart parking lot?
    you let people who could be a major close quarters threat get that close in a parking lot? I try not to let anyone that close who looks like I might have a hard time beating them in hand to hand.

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    I do believe that Ruby's last comments were based upon the same parameters that the video preceding it was based upon--- that being an assailant who is obviously intent upon harming and you don't have a viable escape option!

    In the above, YES, I would have my firearm out as soon as the potential assailant failed to follow verbal instructions to cease or back off. All while I am backing away if able. Once firearm is out it is at low ready with finger outside the trigger guard until such time as circumstances force me to take further more aggressive actions to STOP THE DIRTBAG!

    This is not a standard situation one would find in a Walmart parking lot GENERALLY. Each situation is different and as such has its own unique options.

    Basically, this shows that with an assailant 10 feet or so away with a knife----- IF YOU DON'T HAVE YOUR WEAPON OUT (AS A MINIMUM) YOU ARE GOING TO BE CUT AT A MINIMUM--- but we all know this anyway from the Teuller Drill study.

    Please read preceding CAPS as emphasis not yelling!
    Last edited by JoeSparky; 11-14-2010 at 05:21 PM.

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    Why California's UOC rule is INSANELY STUPID

    I'd have entitled this thread with the above ^^^.

    But that's just me...

    Quote Originally Posted by PavePusher View Post
    http://thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/11...draw-your-gun/

    Video at link.

    Adding more fuel to the how-to-carry debate...
    Good video. I highlights not only the importance of carrying in a condition that's ready to fire (draw, pull trigger), but it also underscores the need to learn and become proficient with two additional skills:

    1. Blocking

    2. Close-range firing, often many other things, including "retention position" and "firing from the hip."

    The thing about blocking is that this vital life-saving skill is not available when you're having to rack the slide, much less if you're having to load a magazine!
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 45acpForMe View Post
    Nice video.

    When I started carrying I carried unchambered for about 4 months until I became comfortable carrying one in the chamber. For me I wanted to have confidence in the gun that I was carrying that it wouldn't discharge if dropped and had sufficient internal safeties.


    I understand peoples comfort level and recommend they carry one in the chamber but hate when states like CA require even the magazine to be out of the gun.
    That is why I use a thumb break holster. One more "Safety" between the hammer and the firing pin and that much harder for some one else to remove from my control.

    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.

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    Great responses folks! This question comes up a lot in CCW classes, so thanks for posting that video. Teuller drills are excellent to train on. If you've yet to try them or simply don't know what the Teuller drill is, I suggest you learn because the video shows a much closer version of that.

    Even OC'ing empty chamber she couldn't respond. That's an eye opener for anyone, no matter how you carry. What I noticed in the OC portion of the video where she was not chambered was that the attacker knocked her to the ground.

    Use a plastic bb or airsoft pistol in the holster. Make sure to have eye protection.
    21 feet between you and the threat.
    Threat closes in as fast as possible on the cue of the threat, not by the cue of the shooter. Plastic knives/toy knives are great for this.
    Hands at a neutral position at your sides or in front of your chest as if you're talking to someone or interviewing a suspect.
    Upon identifying the threat, you must be able to draw and successfully hit your target before the threat gets you.
    The more you run the drill, the more shots you'll be able to get on target.

    It might surprise you how many people find out they cannot get a sight picture in the Teuller. You're not supposed to be able to as it's meant for point shooting, but if you're fast enough to get to the sights and place a truly accurate shot then so be it. Personally, I'm going with point shooting and I'm putting 2-4 rounds in the threat instead of making just 1 accurately placed attempt...miss that 1 shot and you lose.
    Last edited by heresyourdipstickjimmy; 11-18-2010 at 04:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    I'd have entitled this thread with the above ^^^.

    But that's just me...



    Good video. I highlights not only the importance of carrying in a condition that's ready to fire (draw, pull trigger), but it also underscores the need to learn and become proficient with two additional skills:

    1. Blocking

    2. Close-range firing, often many other things, including "retention position" and "firing from the hip."

    The thing about blocking is that this vital life-saving skill is not available when you're having to rack the slide, much less if you're having to load a magazine!

    I hope you don't mind if I add 1 more to this, yours are excellent points.

    3. In a knife fight you WILL get cut, so expect it and learn #1 and #2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by heresyourdipstickjimmy View Post
    In a knife fight you WILL get cut, so expect it and learn #1 and #2.
    That's what the Bat'leth is for.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sultan62 View Post
    Hehe...looks like a reason to OC rather than CC to me.
    Were you paying attention? While she's backing up, she's removing the cover garment from over the gun, essentially making her open carrying

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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    Cute but there are several flaws with this video.

    They are actors and know what is coming. In an actual extreme encounter, there are so many variables that one would be hard pressed to even begin to list them. And chances are pretty good that a victim is not going to see an attack coming from its inception; its very beginning.
    A victim that's not paying any attention, what so ever, may not see an attack coming, but keep your eyes moving & you'll see signs of an impending attack. Plus, your woman's intuition will tell you something is wrong.

    They are not using real weapons. This and because of the fact that they are actors and know that neither one of them is going to get injured, means that they are free to respond quickly for the camera. In reality, not only might a victim be caught off guard, but there is also the introduction of the questioning/hesitation of one's reaction to a violent attack. Most people, when faced with something like this in the sudden extreme, take a moment or so to gather their wits and initiate a response. Even well trained people evaluate a situation before responding with force simply because they naturally will attempt to gather information both for delivering fire and surviving the encounter.
    Have you ever been in a violent confrontation? What kind of training do you have? What experience do you have that makes you offer such opinions?

    What this means is that your firearm needs to be ready for immediate use and in a position where you can get to it as quickly as possible. Time and distance are your friends along with cover and where needed, concealment. However, these are ideal conditions and are not likely to exist in the all together if and when an attack comes.
    That's why one needs to stay ahead of the curve

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    I asked the site user if I could use that video. His response:

    Not my video and I do not like it. At that distance the woman has no business drawing her weapon.

    Obviously training is key with that issue and that's not saying that training can get you out of that type of situation, but it certainly give you an edge. Especially if you have the mindset that you'll get cut once a knife is involved.

    So I'm left with the question that if at that distance there's no business drawing a firearm, then why do we teach our LEOs to defend themselves at those distances IF they are left with no other options to preserve their own lives.

    I noted several mistakes made in the video, but those aren't what I wanted to illustrate. I noted that it illustrates just how fast things can develop from nothing to an attack involving a weapon. Mistakes? Sure. She put her hand on her firearm and bladed her body away. Should have squared up her body and kept her hands where she could use them both as immediate defense, but she already knew it was coming so the response isn't genuine. Blading her body left her kidneys exposed to a side-attack and it put more distance between her firearm and the threat.

    Once the 21 foot reactionary gap is closed, you can be better off stepping further into the issue than withdrawing to create distance. One must train on this or you put yourself at the hazard by closing that gap. You're already inside the danger zone to react timely, so why not make it harder for your threat to attack timely. I train at danger-close proximities due to the statistics showing 70% or more of police shootings occur within 21 feet and 80% or more are within 10 yards. At those distances your ability to withdraw is dramatically hindered if not blocked completely and you're then left with one option....fight for your life.
    Last edited by heresyourdipstickjimmy; 11-21-2010 at 06:45 PM.

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