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Thread: Carry in school????????????????

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    Carry in school????????????????

    Hi all. I would first like to thank you all in advance for your opinions, you guys are always so helpful with questions I have.

    Well here is another one for you all.
    First, I would like to mention I am a Public school teacher in a traditional public school district in southeast Michigan. I also would like to say this was totally a hypothetical question about laws, not opinions, or weather I believe this was a good idea or not. My cousin called me today and we got into a heated debate regarding open carry in a school. He called and told me that as of his reading (he is a novice on the laws as am I) that he believes I could walk into my school and teach my students while open carrying because I have a ccw, and not get fired. I told him I do not disagree with me being able to walk into the school and open carry as that is the law, however I signed a contract as all teachers do that I will abide by the school districts code of conduct for teachers. I stated that it clearly states no weapons (guns, knives, etc) are allowed on the premises. I told him by signing this contract that I would be violating it and would be subject to termination under those terms. He stated I was covered by the constitution and in no way could I get fired because it is a public school and not a private business and if I did the union would be able to get me back and subsequently allow me to carry once I got brought back. So I pose the question to you all......
    Could I indeed go to work carrying a gun openly without repercussion of getting fired even though the contract I signed says I have to abide by my school code of conduct for teachers and it clearly states no weapon?
    Last edited by opencarryteacher; 11-11-2010 at 05:36 PM.

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    You can legally open carry with a CPL in a school.

    However, if your school has a policy against employees carrying, then you cannot per their policy. While it wouldn't be a criminal act, it would be a violation of policy which could (and likely would) result in termination. DON'T DO IT.

    Most employers out there have a no weapons policy for employees, including the parking lots. Some states have a law that says employers can't ban firearms that are locked in a motor vehicle in the parking lot, however, Michigan is not one of them.
    Last edited by budlight; 11-11-2010 at 05:57 PM.

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    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by budlight View Post
    You can legally open carry with a CPL in a school.

    However, if your school has a policy against employees carrying, then you cannot per their policy. While it wouldn't be a criminal act, it would be a violation of policy which could (and likely would) result in termination. DON'T DO IT.

    Most employers out there have a no weapons policy for employees, including the parking lots. Some states have a law that says employers can't ban firearms that are locked in a motor vehicle in the parking lot, however, Michigan is not one of them.
    +1
    Plus Michigan is employment at will.... I know your in the union, but how pro OC in a school is your union?
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastmeyers View Post
    +1
    Plus Michigan is employment at will.... I know your in the union, but how pro OC in a school is your union?
    Good point about Michigan being an At Will state.

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    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(ptc...e=mcl-123-1103

    123.1103 Permissible prohibitions or regulation.
    Sec. 3.

    This act does not prohibit a local unit of government from doing either of the following:

    (a) Prohibiting or regulating conduct with a pistol or other firearm that is a criminal offense under state law.

    (b) Prohibiting or regulating the transportation, carrying, or possession of pistols and other firearms by employees of that local unit of government in the course of their employment with that local unit of government.

    Subsection (b) is what is important here. 123.1102 does not apply to government employees while at work.

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    Welcome to the forum.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by budlight View Post
    You can legally open carry with a CPL in a school.

    However, if your school has a policy against employees carrying, then you cannot per their policy. While it wouldn't be a criminal act, it would be a violation of policy which could (and likely would) result in termination. DON'T DO IT.

    Most employers out there have a no weapons policy for employees, including the parking lots. Some states have a law that says employers can't ban firearms that are locked in a motor vehicle in the parking lot, however, Michigan is not one of them.
    +1

    I'm a state employee that works in a state building. While you can open carry in our lobby, I am not allowed to have on in the building per civil service rules. The rules of my department are even tighter. I can't have on locked and encased in my trunk.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by budlight View Post
    You can legally open carry with a CPL in a school.

    However, if your school has a policy against employees carrying, then you cannot per their policy. While it wouldn't be a criminal act, it would be a violation of policy which could (and likely would) result in termination. DON'T DO IT.

    Most employers out there have a no weapons policy for employees, including the parking lots. Some states have a law that says employers can't ban firearms that are locked in a motor vehicle in the parking lot, however, Michigan is not one of them.
    +1

    IIRC, there was a bill introduced in 2009/2010 to prohibit employers from banning "Firearm in Private Car in Company Parking Lot". I believe it went through Committee just fine, but did not get voted on by the full House/Senate.

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    Thanks guys. This is exactly what I was looking for, no opinions.....just the facts. I appreciate all the insight.

  10. #10
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(ptc...e=mcl-123-1103

    123.1103 Permissible prohibitions or regulation.
    Sec. 3.

    This act does not prohibit a local unit of government from doing either of the following:

    (a) Prohibiting or regulating conduct with a pistol or other firearm that is a criminal offense under state law.

    (b) Prohibiting or regulating the transportation, carrying, or possession of pistols and other firearms by employees of that local unit of government in the course of their employment with that local unit of government.

    Subsection (b) is what is important here. 123.1102 does not apply to government employees while at work.
    But since it defines "local units of government" and schools are not listed, this law has nothing to do with the question. However, the employer (the public school) could fire you for a violation of the rules.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  11. #11
    Regular Member quarter horseman's Avatar
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    Welcome to OC!

    I wish my kids teachers would carry! It would make schools safer in my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    But since it defines "local units of government" and schools are not listed, this law has nothing to do with the question. However, the employer (the public school) could fire you for a violation of the rules.
    Then MCL 123.1102 does not apply to schools. That's always been debated here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    Then MCL 123.1102 does not apply to schools. That's always been debated here.
    Bottom line preemption doesn't apply to employment rules and regulations.

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    Then MCL 123.1102 does not apply to schools. That's always been debated here.
    I guess it would depend on where the school/district gets their authority. If it is from the local government e.g. city, township, etc. then I would say preemption applies. If the school districts authority comes directly from the state and the state has given them regulatory powers over their property then preemption wouldn't apply.

    At least that's how I see it.

    So, from where does the school district get their authority?

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

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    Regular Member kryptonian's Avatar
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    columbine wouldn't have been a big of a story as it was if there were OC in there

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    I guess it would depend on where the school/district gets their authority. If it is from the local government e.g. city, township, etc. then I would say preemption applies. If the school districts authority comes directly from the state and the state has given them regulatory powers over their property then preemption wouldn't apply.

    At least that's how I see it.

    So, from where does the school district get their authority?

    Bronson
    It doesn't matter. K-12 school districts don't have the authority to make criminal statutes. The local city can, but those would be preempted.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    It doesn't matter. K-12 school districts don't have the authority to make criminal statutes. The local city can, but those would be preempted.
    Cite?
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    It doesn't matter. K-12 school districts don't have the authority to make criminal statutes. The local city can, but those would be preempted.
    They may not be able to make criminal statutes but if a school disctrict derives its authority from the state and the state lawfully grants them the power to create rules and regulations pertaining to the conduct of people on grounds under the district's control then they could ban firearms.

    The state Health Dept. offices can ban firearms from their offices for this very reason.

    So my original question still stands; where does the school district's authority come from? Does it come from the state or the local unit of government?

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

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