Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: After Seeing What Happened at Huron Valley High School...

  1. #1
    Regular Member The Expert's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Taylor, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    118

    After Seeing What Happened at Huron Valley High School...

    ...I've decided to take the family's training up a notch next year. I think I'm going to get us all started in a MMA gym. My friend says whole families train at Mash Gym in Redford and that it's not an overly machoized environment.

    I'm thinking I'll add in knife training early on (maybe when the girls reach 8) and then arm them once they are old enough to have "the talk"...which is about at age 10 I guess if you want to have it with them in a proper respectful way before their perv friends at school do in an devaluing way.

    In any case...is there some rule about children not allowed to have pocket knives? I know they can't bring any type of knife (or even draw a picture of a knife) in school...but I'm talking about when they are not in school.

    I wouldn't be surprised if there was some law that said that anyone under the age of 18 can't carry cuticle scissors to be honest.
    I always open carry one of my Kimber 1911 pistols everywhere I go. Usually in a paddle holster. Nothing fancy, but it works for me.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Wyandotte, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    456
    There is no state preemption coverage here, so your best bet is to look at the local ordinances for each city they pass through.

    I don't know of any state laws that would ban someone under 18 from carrying a knife. My son is 10 and carries during scouting activities. His den leader is a local LEO and doesn't see a problem with it. He just reminds everyone that you cannot take knives to school.

  3. #3
    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Corunna, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,772
    Here you go....

  4. #4
    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Corunna, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,772
    Sorry...attachment didn't take...this is it...if it works.
    Michigan Knife Laws

    Michigan -750.226... Carrying with unlawful intent
    Any person who, with intent to use the same unlawfully against the person of another, goes armed with a pistol
    or other firearm or dagger, dirk, razor, stiletto, or knife having a blade over 3 inches in length, or any other dangerous or deadly weapon or instrument, shall be guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment in the state prison for not more than 5 years or by a fine of not more than 2,500 dollars.

    - 750.226a. Pocket knife opened by mechanical device...Any person who shall sell or offer to sell, or any person who shall have in his possession any knife having the appearance of a pocket knife, the blade or blades of which can be opened by a flick of a button, pressure on a handle or other mechanical contrivance shall be guilty of a misdemeanor... [Also, concealed carry maybe charged as a felony under 750.227.] The provisions of this section [750.226a] shall not apply to any one-armed person carrying a knife on his person in connection with his living requirements.

    - 750.227. (1) A person shall not carry a dagger, dirk, stiletto, a double-edged non-folding stabbing instrument of any length, or any dangerous weapon, except a hunting knife adapted and carried as such, concealed on or about his or her person, or whether concealed or otherwise in any vehicle... except in his or her dwelling house [or] place of business... (3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a felony...

    - 750.222a Double-edged, non-folding stabbing instrument defined.
    (1) As used in this chapter, 'doubled-edged, non-folding stabbing instrument' does not include a knife, tool,
    implement, arrowhead, or artifact manufactured from stone by means of conchoidal fracturing.
    (2) Subsection (1) does not apply to an item being transported in a vehicle, unless the item is in a container
    and inaccessible to the driver.

    History: Add. 2000, Act 343, Imd. Eff. Dec. 27, 2000 .

    - 259.80f Possessing... certain items in sterile area of airport;
    (1) An individual shall not possess, carry, or attempt to possess or carry any of the following in a sterile area
    of a commercial airport:
    (a) Firearm.
    (b) Explosive.
    (c) Knife with a blade of any length.
    (d) Razor, box cutter, or item with a similar blade.
    (e) Dangerous weapon.
    (2) Except as provided in subsection (3), an individual who violates subsection (1) is guilty of a misdemeanor
    punishable by imprisonment for not more than 1 year or a fine of not more than $1,000.00, or both.
    (3) An individual who violates subsection (1) while doing any of the following is guilty of a felony punishable
    by imprisonment for not more than 10 years or a fine of not more than $10,000.00, or both:
    (a) Getting on or attempting to get on an aircraft.
    (b) Placing, attempting to place, or attempting to have placed on an aircraft an item listed in subsection (1).
    (c) Committing or attempting to commit a felony.
    (4) [Exempts most officials]...
    (7) As used in this section:
    (a) 'Commercial airport' means an airport that has regularly scheduled commercial flights to and from other
    destinations.
    (c) 'Sterile area' means that term as defined in 14 C.F.R. 107.1.





    History: Add. 2001, Act 225, Eff. Apr. 1, 2002 .

    - 380.1313 Dangerous weapon found in possession of pupil...
    (1) If a dangerous weapon is found in the possession of a pupil while the pupil is in attendance at school or a
    school activity or while the pupil is en-route to or from school on a school bus, the superintendent of the
    school district or intermediate school district, or his or her designee, immediately shall report that finding
    to the pupil's parent or legal guardian and the local law enforcement agency.
    (2) If a school official finds that a dangerous weapon is in the possession of a pupil as described in subsection
    (1), the school official may confiscate the dangerous weapon or shall request a law enforcement agency to
    respond as soon as possible and to confiscate the dangerous weapon. If a school official confiscates a
    dangerous weapon under this subsection, the school official shall give the dangerous weapon to a law
    enforcement agency and shall not release the dangerous weapon to any other person, including the legal
    owner of the dangerous weapon. A school official who complies in good faith with this section is not
    civilly or criminally liable for that compliance...
    (4) As used in this section, 'dangerous weapon' means a firearm, dagger, dirk, stiletto, knife with a blade over
    3 inches in length, pocket knife opened by a mechanical device, iron bar, or brass knuckles.


    Cited from: http://www.knife-expert.com

  5. #5
    Regular Member The Expert's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Taylor, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    118
    So am I correct in my estimation that if I carry a 4" single-edged knife without any unlawful intent I would be good to go?

    Or is that a "dagger", "dirk", or "stiletto"?
    I always open carry one of my Kimber 1911 pistols everywhere I go. Usually in a paddle holster. Nothing fancy, but it works for me.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Wyandotte, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    456
    You are correct because you don't have any unlawful intent.

    However, don't forget about local ordinances as they do very. Remember, there is no preemption law on knives.

  7. #7
    Regular Member The Expert's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Taylor, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    118
    Thanks budlight.

    A quick search of Taylor's ordinences showed that the 4" single edged knife regulation is similar to the state law but they do have an additional law banning anyone younger than 18 from carrying knife with a blade in excess of 3".
    I always open carry one of my Kimber 1911 pistols everywhere I go. Usually in a paddle holster. Nothing fancy, but it works for me.

  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    I guess I missed what happened at Huron Valley.

    Laws or not, once my daughter is old enough to be armed, she will be. My daughters safety means waaay more to me than any misguided law.

  9. #9
    Regular Member The Expert's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Taylor, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    118
    14-year old girl was allegedly raped by an 18-year old student who is rather popular there. Reported it to the police. Suspect released on bond.

    Both students return to school. Friends of 18 year old bully and torment he victim. Mom pulls her daughter from school but lets her return a week or two later. Girl comes home and with a stiff upper lip says she was picked on a little bit but nothing too crazy.

    She then goes up to her room and hangs herself.

    Charges are then dropped against the suspect.

    Here's the link: http://wwj.cbslocal.com/2010/11/10/t...mmits-suicide/
    I always open carry one of my Kimber 1911 pistols everywhere I go. Usually in a paddle holster. Nothing fancy, but it works for me.

  10. #10
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    Figures.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    54
    Make sure you watch a class in the MMA gym before paying to attend. Some MMA gyms can be very competition oriented with a LOT of no-pads contact, with classes filled by body-building males aged 20-40. Not a good environment to learn anything in. Not all MMA gyms, only some.

    If you're having trouble finding an MMA gym, a Krav Maga class is a good self-defense class (including for knives) even for girls. It is very practical and very quick to learn. You will walk out of the first class better prepared to defend yourself.

    For self-defense purposes you want to avoid many Asian martial arts like Karate, Kung Fu, etc. They are formed on katas, which are pre-determined forms, and have no use in self-defense scenarios. I guess they are good for balance, discipline, and fitness, though.

    For girls, whose defense situations can easily end up on the floor, Jiu Jitsu, especially Brazillian Jiu Jitsu (which you will find in MMA) is useful, but again, these classes can be very physically demanding and competitive.

    For a toned-down martial art, but one that will take much more time to be able to apply to any self defense situation, Aikido is a good choice. There are no competitions and the focus is on redirection of force. You work very closely with your partner, one learns to attack and the other learns to defend at the same time. At first it seems divorced from reality but the balance, leverage, and momentum skills learned here are an excellent basis for self defense (this is the martial art I'm taking now). Holds in Aikido are especially useful, as you learn the weak points of joints so that they can be disabled or broken with relatively little force applied (good for people less strength-inclined like females). Be sure to find one that isn't too philosophy oriented, some Aikido classes become more of a dance class that incorporates a religious aspect, which is useless in self-defense.

    It's good you are deciding on getting knife training. You are more likely to be hurt if you use a knife in a self defense situation than if you do nothing. This is because knives get taken away. Training prevents that.Criminals are not intimidated by knives like they are by guns, they will engage you. Knife training can be just as time consuming as a martial arts class can be, but they are worth it. Make sure you get the proper training.
    Last edited by Sefner; 11-11-2010 at 11:22 PM.

  12. #12
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Nortonville, KY, USA
    Posts
    4,291
    Knife laws of the 50 states:
    http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/sta-law.htm

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Wyandotte, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    456
    Quote Originally Posted by The Expert View Post
    Thanks budlight.

    A quick search of Taylor's ordinences showed that the 4" single edged knife regulation is similar to the state law but they do have an additional law banning anyone younger than 18 from carrying knife with a blade in excess of 3".
    No problem.

    On a side note, if a female pulled out a knife to defend herself against a rape I don't think any LEO would arrest her for violation of the city ordinance. (I'm just stating this since you were looking for your daughters protection against perverts.) I know an LEO that gave each of his daughter's a can of pepper spray that did not meet the Michigan standards for civilian use. When I mentioned that what he gave them was illegal for civilian use he stated that they were females and no LEO would make an issue of a female protecting herself from criminals. Probably a good point, but you never know.
    Last edited by budlight; 11-12-2010 at 12:54 AM.

  14. #14
    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Monroe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,196
    MMA training is a great idea, if my ass was in shape I would love to do it.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Battle Creek, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,157
    Quote Originally Posted by detroit_fan View Post
    MMA training is a great idea, if my ass was in shape I would love to do it.
    Bah, if you are fit enough to enter the building under your own power then you're fit enough to begin training. Any good instructor/program knows that everyone will have their own starting capabilities and should be able to work with them.

    In the school where I teach there is a MMA class that runs concurrently with my aikido class and while most of those folks are pretty darn fit there are a couple that are very overweight....but they're working it down and the MMA folks are always encouraging, helping, and pushing the big guys to keep going.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    54
    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Bah, if you are fit enough to enter the building under your own power then you're fit enough to begin training. Any good instructor/program knows that everyone will have their own starting capabilities and should be able to work with them.

    In the school where I teach there is a MMA class that runs concurrently with my aikido class and while most of those folks are pretty darn fit there are a couple that are very overweight....but they're working it down and the MMA folks are always encouraging, helping, and pushing the big guys to keep going.

    Bronson
    I second this. Also, a good self-defense instructor will be able to tailor things to your body type. For instance, a nimble but frail ballerina will probably be better suited for evasion techniques whereas a larger male will probably be better suited to holds and blocks. A good instructor can figure this out. Also, in my Aikido class we have some older gentlemen that are easily over 60. They are both instructor-level practioners.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Iowa, USA
    Posts
    1,249
    Quote Originally Posted by WARCHILD View Post

    - 750.226a. Pocket knife opened by mechanical device...Any person who shall sell or offer to sell, or any person who shall have in his possession any knife having the appearance of a pocket knife, the blade or blades of which can be opened by a flick of a button, pressure on a handle or other mechanical contrivance shall be guilty of a misdemeanor... [Also, concealed carry maybe charged as a felony under 750.227.] The provisions of this section [750.226a] shall not apply to any one-armed person carrying a knife on his person in connection with his living requirements.
    I recently purchased a Smith and Wesson M&P tactial folding knife at a local sporting goods store. It is a "Spring Assist" knife. There are two ways to open it. Manually, by unlocking the safety and using your thumb to push open the blade. And also using a button on the top to allow the spring to open the blade. Would that be considered illegal in Michigan?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	197240000_md.jpg 
Views:	50 
Size:	16.2 KB 
ID:	4546  

  18. #18
    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Corunna, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,772
    By pushing the button on top; does it automatically open the blade i.e....switchblade?
    If you must partially open the blade manually to activate the spring then it is legal; for now. I have heard of legislation being proposed to close this "loophole" in the switchblade law but as of now, nothing has happened.

    ETA: If the spring opens it without any manual assist..it is illegal here in Michigan.
    Last edited by WARCHILD; 11-15-2010 at 12:04 PM.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    City
    Posts
    1,077
    public schools are nothing more than reeducation centers ti destroy what parents might teach their children in values and morals. They will not and have never protected children from the thugs. The mere fact that there was no mass arrests of the tormentors on assault charges and more shows no one gives a damn in the system. Smearing fecal matter on a police Officer will get you shot, but on a child nothing at all, kinda twisted isn't it....


    Quote Originally Posted by The Expert View Post
    14-year old girl was allegedly raped by an 18-year old student who is rather popular there. Reported it to the police. Suspect released on bond.

    Both students return to school. Friends of 18 year old bully and torment he victim. Mom pulls her daughter from school but lets her return a week or two later. Girl comes home and with a stiff upper lip says she was picked on a little bit but nothing too crazy.

    She then goes up to her room and hangs herself.

    Charges are then dropped against the suspect.

    Here's the link: http://wwj.cbslocal.com/2010/11/10/t...mmits-suicide/
    Last edited by Bailenforcer; 11-15-2010 at 01:17 PM.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    City
    Posts
    1,077

    Missing the big picture

    Growing u as a much smaller than average child on the streets of Detroit I decided my parents pacifism wasn't working and I started to learn street fighting tactics. A knife isn't necessary, a bottle or any sharp object works well. A ex girlfriend of mine attacked a flasher by grabbing that thing he flashed with her rather sharp talons for fingernails and tore him to shreds and I mean he bled like a stuck hog screaming and fleeing her. She was bound and determined to remove it from him if she could, and she almost did.

    Anything is a potential weapon, screwdrivers, scissors and many things children have at their disposal and are not considered weapons normally. I remember accidentally cutting myself wide with a credit card that had broke leaving a sharp jagged edge. Anything is a weapon if used correctly. I carry a Kubuton and know how to use it. I have broken someones wrist with one. Learn how to use your environment as a weapon as well.

    http://www.karatemart.com/kubotan-keychain
    Last edited by Bailenforcer; 11-15-2010 at 01:32 PM.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Iowa, USA
    Posts
    1,249
    Quote Originally Posted by WARCHILD View Post
    By pushing the button on top; does it automatically open the blade i.e....switchblade?
    Yes. But that is not the only way to open the knife. It can be opened manually as well.

    ETA: If the spring opens it without any manual assist..it is illegal here in Michigan.
    Bummer.....

  22. #22
    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Corunna, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,772
    I agree...bummer...
    I used to own an actual "switchblade" from the 50's, but unfortunately I lost it on a fishing trip...a bass ate it....

  23. #23
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Battle Creek, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,157
    Quote Originally Posted by WARCHILD View Post
    I agree...bummer...
    I used to own an actual "switchblade" from the 50's, but unfortunately I lost it on a fishing trip...a bass ate it....
    I used to have a nice Kris bladed one with mother of pearl handles but it was stolen many years ago along with my guns. I got the guns back but the knife is loooong gone.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •