I go to this McD drive through every morning for breakfast on the way to work. A few of the employees call me Turbo because of my car, and needless to say, I'm recognized. I teach middle school, so I'm unarmed during the visits to this location.
Today was a day of for Veteran's Day, and I was OCing as normal.
I was in the area and went to grab lunch. They have a "no concealed weapons" sign on the door. This isn't a good area, so it isn't surprising really. To keep the peace to start off with, I went to the drive through and ordered, as well as asking to speak with the manager.
I asked about the sign on the door, and if she (manager) knew that OC was legal and not prevented by the sign.
She said that it was there for liability reasons only, and that they didn't really care in the store. I asked if there would be any issues if I OCed in the store. She said as long as I didn't shoot anyone, then there wouldn't be any problems. She said that if they police did come, they would just want to see my permit (typical answer for those without knowledge of the laws or system).
Either way, the manager said that OC was fine in the store and said that they have no problems with my firearm and I giving them business.
Last edited by JDriver1.8t; 11-11-2010 at 08:22 PM.
Not really. The sign clearly states no concealed weapons.
OC is not concealed as we all know. The only way I am in legal danger is if I refuse to leave if asked, and then it is Trespass.
Additionally, I have management consent even though not required.
IMO all consent should be in writing, people today will say anything if their butts are on the line
There are various areas where there is a "No concealed firearms" sign posted. I happily walk right in, knowing my gun is in plain sight. They have that sticker at my bank too - I still waltz right in like I own the place.
It's all about confidence. Be confident in yourself, and everything else will follow. No DA will ever ever ever get anything to stick if your in a place with a "NO concealed firearms' sign posted while your OCing, and the cop that arrested you will be going to the Unemployment office until he finds a new job.
"They don't give a damn about any trumpet playing band
It ain't what they call rock and roll
And the Sultans...
Yeah the Sultans, they play Creole"
I agree that "no concealed weapons" signs are pretty specific but that does not stop someone from getting arrested anyways.
Other signs, the classic gun in a red circle with a slash mark for example are even more ambiguous. The ONLY place in the NC statutes that mentions anything about signs is the area that deals with concealed weapons. That said, a sign like this would surely qualify as trespass notice just as much as "shirt and shoes required" signs would
I understand what you are saying, but what you intend to do or not does not hold up in court.especially if the business owner said that they intended the sign to mean that all guns were banned.
"i'm sorry officer, I wasn't intending to do 20 over the speed limit."
"I'm sorry officer, I wasn't intending to have a negligent discharge."
Doesn't work. The law is clear on how signs are supposed to be written, even if it is more for concealed carry then OC. If they don't follow the law, then the law can't be upheld.
The case would also be thrown out near instantly by the DA, and the arresting officer would have a federal lawsuit on their hands.I agree that "no concealed weapons" signs are pretty specific but that does not stop someone from getting arrested anyways.
Not really ambiguous, IMO. If there is a circle slash with a gun in the center, it clearly means no guns. Don't know why it would be anything but. Same thing with circle slashes for cell phones, cameras, video cameras, etc etc. Nothing ambiguous as to what they meanOther signs, the classic gun in a red circle with a slash mark for example are even more ambiguous.
Which is the whole point - if you walk past a "no guns" sign, then expect to be arrested and charged with trespassing.The ONLY place in the NC statutes that mentions anything about signs is the area that deals with concealed weapons. That said, a sign like this would surely qualify as trespass notice just as much as "shirt and shoes required" signs would
The only thing that IS codified in NC Statute is the penalties for not leaving when someone asks you to leave, or if you carry on posted property.
There are very few states that have gone to the trouble to codify signage requirements. I'm pretty sure NM is one of the only states that has an official statutory requirement for signage standards that MUST be adhered to, or the signs are not valid...
My local cable company has a "no concealed firearms" sign on their door, so I always OC when I go there. Never been an issue...
It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
--Barry Goldwater, 1964
Otherwise, according to your determination, if a shop owner gives me a dirty look, I am supposed to know their intentions and a cop can enforce that they intended me to leave by looking at me the wrong way?
Last edited by NavyLCDR; 11-15-2010 at 05:45 PM.
Though our glorious AG has opined that you could still be charged even if the park doesn't post at all, even though the statute require it to.
For business postings, it specifies 3 areas that must be addressed, though verbiage need not be verbatim; but a gunbusters sign is now binding also.
Note that we also have specific criminal penalties for carrying past the various type postings, not just the "leave or face trespassing charge" type thing.