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Thread: Conversation with McDonalds Manager today- Charlotte, Independance and Idlewild:

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    Conversation with McDonalds Manager today- Charlotte, Independance and Idlewild:

    I go to this McD drive through every morning for breakfast on the way to work. A few of the employees call me Turbo because of my car, and needless to say, I'm recognized. I teach middle school, so I'm unarmed during the visits to this location.

    Today was a day of for Veteran's Day, and I was OCing as normal.
    I was in the area and went to grab lunch. They have a "no concealed weapons" sign on the door. This isn't a good area, so it isn't surprising really. To keep the peace to start off with, I went to the drive through and ordered, as well as asking to speak with the manager.

    I asked about the sign on the door, and if she (manager) knew that OC was legal and not prevented by the sign.
    She said that it was there for liability reasons only, and that they didn't really care in the store. I asked if there would be any issues if I OCed in the store. She said as long as I didn't shoot anyone, then there wouldn't be any problems. She said that if they police did come, they would just want to see my permit (typical answer for those without knowledge of the laws or system).

    Either way, the manager said that OC was fine in the store and said that they have no problems with my firearm and I giving them business.
    Last edited by JDriver1.8t; 11-11-2010 at 09:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JDriver1.8t View Post
    I go to this McD drive through every morning for breakfast on the way to work. A few of the employees call me Turbo because of my car, and needless to say, I'm recognized. I teach middle school, so I'm unarmed during the visits to this location.

    Today was a day of for Veteran's Day, and I was OCing as normal.
    I was in the area and went to grab lunch. They have a "no concealed weapons" sign on the door. This isn't a good area, so it isn't surprising really. To keep the peace to start off with, I went to the drive through and ordered, as well as asking to speak with the manager.

    I asked about the sign on the door, and if she (manager) knew that OC was legal and not prevented by the sign.
    She said that it was there for liability reasons only, and that they didn't really care in the store. I asked if there would be any issues if I OCed in the store. She said as long as I didn't shoot anyone, then there wouldn't be any problems. She said that if they police did come, they would just want to see my permit (typical answer for those without knowledge of the laws or system).

    Either way, the manager said that OC was fine in the store and said that they have no problems with my firearm and I giving them business.
    Unfortunately the sign still puts you in legal danger even though you arent concealing.

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    Not really. The sign clearly states no concealed weapons.
    OC is not concealed as we all know. The only way I am in legal danger is if I refuse to leave if asked, and then it is Trespass.
    Additionally, I have management consent even though not required.

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    IMO all consent should be in writing, people today will say anything if their butts are on the line
    GO PIRATES!!!!!

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    Regular Member elixin77's Avatar
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    There are various areas where there is a "No concealed firearms" sign posted. I happily walk right in, knowing my gun is in plain sight. They have that sticker at my bank too - I still waltz right in like I own the place.

    It's all about confidence. Be confident in yourself, and everything else will follow. No DA will ever ever ever get anything to stick if your in a place with a "NO concealed firearms' sign posted while your OCing, and the cop that arrested you will be going to the Unemployment office until he finds a new job.
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    Quote Originally Posted by elixin77 View Post
    SNIP
    It's all about confidence. Be confident in yourself, and everything else will follow.
    +1

    If you are confident, appearing as if you have every right to be there (you do) then there should be no problems. Keep the confidence if the cops show up. Just remember cocky≠confident.
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    Quote Originally Posted by elixin77 View Post
    There are various areas where there is a "No concealed firearms" sign posted. I happily walk right in, knowing my gun is in plain sight. They have that sticker at my bank too - I still waltz right in like I own the place.

    It's all about confidence. Be confident in yourself, and everything else will follow. No DA will ever ever ever get anything to stick if your in a place with a "NO concealed firearms' sign posted while your OCing, and the cop that arrested you will be going to the Unemployment office until he finds a new job.
    As ambiguous as NC law is, it wouldnt surprise me if it someone was charged with trespass after warning for open carrying past such a sign. The cop would be perfectly within his job description to arrest someone, especially if the business owner said that they intended the sign to mean that all guns were banned.

    I agree that "no concealed weapons" signs are pretty specific but that does not stop someone from getting arrested anyways.

    Other signs, the classic gun in a red circle with a slash mark for example are even more ambiguous. The ONLY place in the NC statutes that mentions anything about signs is the area that deals with concealed weapons. That said, a sign like this would surely qualify as trespass notice just as much as "shirt and shoes required" signs would

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    Quote Originally Posted by mekender View Post
    As ambiguous as NC law is, it wouldnt surprise me if it someone was charged with trespass after warning for open carrying past such a sign.
    Wouldn't surprise me either, based on reports from other members. Seems cops think that people protecting themselves are violent felons looking to harm others.

    especially if the business owner said that they intended the sign to mean that all guns were banned.
    I understand what you are saying, but what you intend to do or not does not hold up in court.

    "i'm sorry officer, I wasn't intending to do 20 over the speed limit."
    "I'm sorry officer, I wasn't intending to have a negligent discharge."

    Doesn't work. The law is clear on how signs are supposed to be written, even if it is more for concealed carry then OC. If they don't follow the law, then the law can't be upheld.

    I agree that "no concealed weapons" signs are pretty specific but that does not stop someone from getting arrested anyways.
    The case would also be thrown out near instantly by the DA, and the arresting officer would have a federal lawsuit on their hands.

    Other signs, the classic gun in a red circle with a slash mark for example are even more ambiguous.
    Not really ambiguous, IMO. If there is a circle slash with a gun in the center, it clearly means no guns. Don't know why it would be anything but. Same thing with circle slashes for cell phones, cameras, video cameras, etc etc. Nothing ambiguous as to what they mean

    The ONLY place in the NC statutes that mentions anything about signs is the area that deals with concealed weapons. That said, a sign like this would surely qualify as trespass notice just as much as "shirt and shoes required" signs would
    Which is the whole point - if you walk past a "no guns" sign, then expect to be arrested and charged with trespassing.
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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elixin77 View Post
    Doesn't work. The law is clear on how signs are supposed to be written, even if it is more for concealed carry then OC. If they don't follow the law, then the law can't be upheld.
    Actually, there are no statutes in the NC Code that address signage--wording, graphics, size, location--NOTHING is specified or codified with regards to weapons carry prohibition.

    The only thing that IS codified in NC Statute is the penalties for not leaving when someone asks you to leave, or if you carry on posted property.

    There are very few states that have gone to the trouble to codify signage requirements. I'm pretty sure NM is one of the only states that has an official statutory requirement for signage standards that MUST be adhered to, or the signs are not valid...

    Quote Originally Posted by elixin77 View Post
    The case would also be thrown out near instantly by the DA, and the arresting officer would have a federal lawsuit on their hands.
    Maybe not so quickly, but eventually such a case would be thrown out if you had a decent lawyer. Since most of the statutory restrictions (and their associated penalties) on carry in NC are CC-specific, a sign that says "no CONCEALED firearms" would, by a reasonable person, not apply to OC.

    My local cable company has a "no concealed firearms" sign on their door, so I always OC when I go there. Never been an issue...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    Actually, there are no statutes in the NC Code that address signage--wording, graphics, size, location--NOTHING is specified or codified with regards to weapons carry prohibition.

    The only thing that IS codified in NC Statute is the penalties for not leaving when someone asks you to leave, or if you carry on posted property.

    There are very few states that have gone to the trouble to codify signage requirements. I'm pretty sure NM is one of the only states that has an official statutory requirement for signage standards that MUST be adhered to, or the signs are not valid...
    What I was saying was in response to mekender. Basically, you can't put up a "no concealed firearms" and not expect anyone to walk in OC'ing. If a business owner doesn't want *any* firearms (and subsequently our and many other's business), then they need to put up a "no firearms" sign.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    ...

    There are very few states that have gone to the trouble to codify signage requirements. I'm pretty sure NM is one of the only states that has an official statutory requirement for signage standards that MUST be adhered to, or the signs are not valid..
    TN has exact verbiage and size for signs that forbid carry in municipal parks.
    Though our glorious AG has opined that you could still be charged even if the park doesn't post at all, even though the statute require it to.

    For business postings, it specifies 3 areas that must be addressed, though verbiage need not be verbatim; but a gunbusters sign is now binding also.

    Note that we also have specific criminal penalties for carrying past the various type postings, not just the "leave or face trespassing charge" type thing.

    - OS

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