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Thread: A Question of Training

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Jan 2010
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA

    A Question of Training

    Earlier in the year, I had the good fortune of running across someone on who shares our appreciation for our Second Amendment rights. As he's a firearms instructor, however, he naturally had a few concerns, as well as questions for me.

    Here's my response to him. I've excised to the best of my ability, any hint of his identity or affiliation, but have left a couple of links which the rest of us might find interesting. The items in the quoted paragraph form that are also "in quotes" are mine. The rest in the quoted paragraph form are his:

    Hey! I apologize for not getting back with you sooner, but I've not been on this forum for several months! My son was in town over the summer, I've been working towards finishing several books, was dating someone for a month, and have spent a lot of time on

    "I do carry, however, because some folks in our world are not "nice people."

    May I ask what you used for the training requirement to get your carry permit? I'm an instructor at one of our local gun stores.
    As per the El Paso County Sheriff's Office, Concealed Hangun Permit Application, Proof of Firearms Training, page 2, I selected, and submitted the required documentation for "Proof of honorable discharge from a branch of the United States Armed Forces (DD214) that reflects pistol qualifications obtained within the ten years preceding submittal of this application."

    I'm familiar with the C.R.S. 18-12-202.5 training requirement, as well as it's more specific reference to C.R.S. 18-12-203(1)(h)(IV), which states, in toto: "Beginning May 17, 2003, except as otherwise provided in this section, a sheriff shall issue a permit to carry a concealed handgun to an applicant who; Demonstrates competence with a handgun by submitting; Proof of honorable discharge from a branch of the United States armed forces that reflects pistol qualifications obtained within the ten years preceding submittal of the application."

    I'd like to put your mind at ease on a couple of points, as I've talked with three instructors here in town, all of whom tried to convince me my military training was "inadequate." I understand some may have simply been trying to drum up more business...

    1. Basic firearms safety. Nearly all members of the military, including both the medical and legal fields, were required to attend both a weapons-specific classroom and range qualification training every two years. For most of the enlisted folks, that meant the M-16. For most of the officers, that meant the M-9. As an Air Mobility Liaison Officer, I qualified on both the M-9 and the M-16

    2. Firearms proficiency: Throughout my career, the qualifications standards became increasingly more tough, with the addition of rapid reload, barriers, and in my final years, qualification under chemical warefare conditions (masks). Throughout my twenty years of military service, I attended firearms training a total of ten times, and qualified expert all ten times.*

    *Generally speaking, between 7% and 23% of the class would qualify as expert.

    3. Additional military training: As a B-52 navigator, I was certified to drop a wide variety of conventional and nuclear munitions. The requirements for that mission (particularly for nukes) were far more demanding than for anything we did during our semi-annual firearms training courses! I was also an instructor in the military, including a stint at Nellis AFB, where I became the assistant chief of academics. As such, I both developed courseware as well as worked with our cadre of twelve instructors to help them develop their own, and oversaw the 6-week rotating production of the student workbooks and the classroom presentations.

    4. State-specific firearms legal training: If the above is any clue, I'm plugged into our state's law, and am reasonably familiar with case law. I know what can and can't be done, but I always attempt to err well on the right side of the law.

    5. Subsequent firearms training: I hit the range at least 4 times a year. About eight months ago, I came across the Handgun Standards compilation of training standards in use by most of our state and federal law enforcement agencies, and began incorporating their standards of both training and proficiency into my routine, to the maximum extent possible given the fact I don't have access to S.W.A.T. or FBI-style training facilities. I don't try to do it all at once, but rather, review a certain federal agency's training standards, say, the FBI Pistol Qualifications Course, and modify that commensurate with the range on which I usually train (Dragon Man's).

    6. Additional self-defense training: This is the part I've been most lax about. I took Aikido for about a year while stationed in Korea. I also know a few moves taught me by friends highly proficient in other disciplines (all black belts). I'm a peaceful person person at heart, and very much prefer to avoid conflict. That's one reason I don't think I'd make a very good Law Enforcement Officer. On the other hand, of the two fights I've been in, one back in 1987, and the other this summer, I've fairly decimated my opponent(s), though with a significant distinction. In 1987, it was a football player who attacked me and he outweighed me by more than 100 lbs. I learned five months later I'd broken his jaw in three places, which put him on the bench for the fall season (long, but interesting story). This summer, I defeated two guys using what little I've learned in Aikido, and true to the form, neither of them were hurt (although I sustained two hurtful pops to my left cheek from the pipsqueak who blindsided me while I was engaged with his "big hairy friend." Sadly, I don't bruise hardly at all, so the police were unimpressed. My cheek hurt for three weeks. I hope the pipsqueak broke his hand.)

    "...just how does one ID the bad guys?"

    It's actually not that hard. 99% of the population is completely oblivious to their surroundings or the people around them, but once one learns to be observant one can spot the wolves from a mile away.
    Thanks. So, "just how does one ID the bad guys?" Lol!

    The rest of the conversation continued, but it's beyond the purview of this forum.
    Last edited by since9; 11-12-2010 at 12:44 AM.
    The 1st protects the 2nd, and the 2nd protects the 1st. GET THIS OR LOSE IT ALLl: 27-2=0. Our 2A is THE bellwether, and ain't none finer: Islamic Reality. Our Founding Fathers on Church and State. PC=ZERO.

  2. #2
    Regular Member OldCurlyWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Aren't we nearly all lax about the physical side of training. I know I am. For your acquaintance, this one started with basic firearms safety at the ripe old age of 9(the Daisy BB gun course), continued on through years of hunting and into firearms training as a Police Cadet in SE Texas. Since leaving LE, Firearms proficiency training and testing in TWO different states. My Current CCL is good in 34 states. I think you will find a substantial percentage of CCL holders whose training equals mine.
    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.

    Politicians should serve two terms, one in office and one in prison.(borrowed from RioKid)

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