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  1. #1
    Regular Member Wolfman's Avatar
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    New Poster

    Hi guys.


    Been lurking here on and off for quite awhile, but never had anything worthwhile to contribute, so I didn't bother registering. Well, today I did. It's my birthday; I just turned 21, and bought my first 1911(a Citadel). I'd been eying it in the gun store for some time and have had the owner take it out so I can fondle it on numerous occasions. Also got some bullets and a holster, and thought I would open carry my new pride and joy on some of my errands. Where did I go? Walmart of course.

    Didn't encounter any problems at all. Not a one. Nobody harassed me, chased me with hayforks or anything of the sort. I did see a couple people looking at my sidearm, but then they went on about their business. I wasn't nervous either. Thought I might be, but no. I've been OCing hunting knives and such for years, and have took some heckling for it, so I guess my nerves are already built up somewhat.

    And you meet the nicest people OCing. I was sitting in a Subway restaurant, located inside Walmart, enjoying a hoagie when this gentleman came up to my table and asked if I used factory ammo or reloads. To make a long story short, I now have a potential supplier of relatively cheap ammo.

    Anyway, it was a very positive experience and I look forward to my next outing. And I thought I'd share that riveting tale with the community here.

  2. #2
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    More power to you, my friend. I've been OCing for about six months (since the week I moved down here, actually), so I'm relatively new to it as well. So far, the worst I've encountered is a few jerks being... Well, jerks. That, and being asked to "put that thing away" at a church. No LEO issues, no enraged managers or business owners, no mobs with torches, and so far, no duels or sunset showdowns. :P

    Out of curiosity, what county do you live in?

  3. #3
    Regular Member KRM59's Avatar
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    welcome

    Welcome Wolfman glad to hear your oc'ing was enjoyable. carry on.
    "To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them."
    - George Mason

  4. #4
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Welcome aboard Wolfman.

    Hope you took time to run 200, 300, 400 + rounds through your new 1911.

    Its all about break-in and reliability/dependability.

    Carry responsibly and be a good steward.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Wolfman's Avatar
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    Thanks for welcoming me guys. The gun shoots like a dream. It seems easy to acquire and fire, feels great in my hand, and is a rather handsome piece if I do say so myself. Unfortunately I've experienced some feeding issues. After manually cycling a few full magazines through it, it seems to be getting better. Unfortunately I haven't been able to break it in properly. As I said, I'm 21, and with the economy being the way it is, I'm lucky to have been able to afford the gun.

    And I live in Whitley County, which I believe makes me one of very few on this site from south-eastern Kentucky.

  6. #6
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfman View Post
    Thanks for welcoming me guys. The gun shoots like a dream. It seems easy to acquire and fire, feels great in my hand, and is a rather handsome piece if I do say so myself. Unfortunately I've experienced some feeding issues. After manually cycling a few full magazines through it, it seems to be getting better. Unfortunately I haven't been able to break it in properly. As I said, I'm 21, and with the economy being the way it is, I'm lucky to have been able to afford the gun.

    And I live in Whitley County, which I believe makes me one of very few on this site from south-eastern Kentucky.
    1911s like to be "run in" - this hones the internals to a smooth fit.

    Here's one example of how you can save money on-line.
    New PMC brand .45 ACP at under $30/BOX OF 50 rds. including shipping.
    http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_s..._acp_ammo.html
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Wolfman's Avatar
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    Appreciate the tip, Grapeshot. Unfortunately, I nearly broke the bank with this purchase. Will have to wait until my work situation stabilizes before I can afford any more ammo for the sidearm.

    Do you suppose I could get reloaded ammo for even less of the old green stuff than it would cost to buy it online?

  8. #8
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfman View Post
    Appreciate the tip, Grapeshot. Unfortunately, I nearly broke the bank with this purchase. Will have to wait until my work situation stabilizes before I can afford any more ammo for the sidearm.

    Do you suppose I could get reloaded ammo for even less of the old green stuff than it would cost to buy it online?
    You can always ask around.

    The problems with reloads, except from a major player like Georgia Arms (I like them), is that the little guy is liability sensitive and you really don't know what you are getting - may be good, may be inconsistent etc.
    http://georgia-arms.com/45acp-2.aspx
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Wolfman's Avatar
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    Your advice is much appreciated, Grapeshot. I'll fish around a bit.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Ivan Sample's Avatar
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    Wolfman-

    First of all welcome aboard and you will find in this forum a lot of knowledgable people in here as you already found out. Its always nice to hear that your first experience of Ocing was a good one, especially at a Wal-Mart store.

  11. #11
    Regular Member KRM59's Avatar
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    Ammo

    Walmart 50 rounds 45 APC 16 bux Federal
    "To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them."
    - George Mason

  12. #12
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Save up your coins and buy a Dillion Progressive - reload yourself.
    http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/con...___039_B__039_

    Even with components added in, first 1000rds reaches the break even point at approximately $25/box of 50; thereafter, each 50 rds runs about $7.50. You will shoot more, cheaper and get lots of hands-on fun.

    Have I done it yet? Nope - stooopid. Need to take my own advice.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  13. #13
    Regular Member cwohardy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfman View Post
    Thanks for welcoming me guys. The gun shoots like a dream. It seems easy to acquire and fire, feels great in my hand, and is a rather handsome piece if I do say so myself. Unfortunately I've experienced some feeding issues. After manually cycling a few full magazines through it, it seems to be getting better. Unfortunately I haven't been able to break it in properly. As I said, I'm 21, and with the economy being the way it is, I'm lucky to have been able to afford the gun.

    And I live in Whitley County, which I believe makes me one of very few on this site from south-eastern Kentucky.
    I am from Somerset.........We are here!

  14. #14
    Regular Member Wolfman's Avatar
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    Didn't realize the cost difference was that significant. It would definitely be worth my while to get the press when I'm able to afford it. I've been flirting with the notion of getting a .22 conversion kit, but after looking at some of the prices on those things, I think I will be much better off reloading .45's. Just hope I don't blow myself up.

    And I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one from around these parts. With the exception of one guy I know, nobody in town open carries. Well, not firearms at least, but I do see fixed blade knives from time to time.

  15. #15
    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfman View Post
    Thanks for welcoming me guys. The gun shoots like a dream. It seems easy to acquire and fire, feels great in my hand, and is a rather handsome piece if I do say so myself. Unfortunately I've experienced some feeding issues. After manually cycling a few full magazines through it, it seems to be getting better. Unfortunately I haven't been able to break it in properly. As I said, I'm 21, and with the economy being the way it is, I'm lucky to have been able to afford the gun.

    And I live in Whitley County, which I believe makes me one of very few on this site from south-eastern Kentucky.
    OK, I'm just reading through this thread so someone else might've already addressed this one. If you're experiencing a feeding issue and it seems to be getting a little better, I'd suggest that the issue lies in the feedramp needing to be polished more than what it is currently. This is generally a simple job and shouldn't cost much to have done, it's harder to find a professional to do it than anything else. I'd almost say that you could do it yourself but I wouldn't advise it, if you tried doing it yourself, you could potentially damage your gun.

    As for being one of the few on the site from Southeastern Kentucky, I'm in that area as well, Johnson county here.
    Last edited by neuroblades; 11-15-2010 at 01:31 PM.
    Got SIG? MOLON LABE

  16. #16
    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Ammo Issues

    Wolfman, As I read through the rest of the posts on this thread and read across you ammo issues, theres was something I didn't see and being that you wrote that you're new I figured I'd better post this for your safety sake and legal liability.

    In reference to ammo, whether it be store bought or reloads, you need to be aware that while this type of ammo is great for target practicing and plinking; it IS NOT good to carry for self-defense!!!!! Typical ball ammo that you'd find at most stores such as Wal Mart, is a dangerous thing legally! The reason for this fact is that the typical ball ammo you'd find has a horrible habit of "over penetration", meaning that IF you were to use this ammo in your pistol to shoot a bad guy, it will kill the bad guy then exit them and proceed on to potentially penetrate a by-stander or innocent person that is in rate of the fired shot.

    This is something that I know you're not going to want to hear, being the financial issues and cost of ammo but IF you're carring your sidearm for self-defense, not only will you need to purchase standard ball ammo to practice with, you will then need "self-defense ammo" as well IF you intend to carry and use it to the safest extent.

    The "self-defense" ammo that I'm talking about is specially designed to allow for the maximum penetration, maximum trauma effect and maximum amount of "blooming" in short range to cause a maximum amount of damage to the bad guy, all of this is to cause maximum trauma to the bad guy to lead to a quicker ending to a shooting situation (eg. to cause the bad guy to bleed alot and thereby cause them to stop fighting quicker). The human body can withstand ALOT of bodily damage before succumbing to the damage. That's why in some gunfights, it might take 8 or more shots to stop a bad guy and that's just if they're NOT on some kind of drugs. if they're on some kind of narcotics, it could take even more shoots to stop them. Standard ball ammo will do nothing to really end a gunfight quicker and without an extended situation! Additionally, as stated above, ball ammo will over penetrate and possible end up killing an innocent person in the area as well. This is because ball ammo will just go through a bad guy and exit to possibly hit an innocent. This type of ammo does no real trauma to the bad guy other than entry and exit wounds, which the human body can take alot of unless a critical hit is rendered!

    "Self -defense" ammo on the other hand is designed to be fired, "bloom" immediately upon being fired, enter the bad guys body causing ALOT of damage from the entry wound to the point where the shot terminates, in most cases that's inside the body or within a few feet of an exit wound, if the shots fired at very close range. Think of it this way, ball ammo is higher speed, longer range and solid. Self-defense ammo on the other hand is generally slower speed, shorter range and specially designed to open up immediately, creating a much more traumatic entry wound, forcing the bad guy to stop fighting.

    Some of the best self-defense ammo out there that has been LE proven in the field:

    Hornady Critical Defense
    Speer Gold Dot
    Glaser Safety Slug

    Additionally, most ammo's out there that utilize the "FTX" designed bullet are used as self-defense ammo as well, or at least all of the one's I've encountered.

    I hope that this has helped educate and explain the differences between ammo's and the up's and down's. If you have any questions, just contact me here.

    Happy & Safe Shooting!
    Got SIG? MOLON LABE

  17. #17
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Adding to the thoughts re hardball ammo vs defensive ammo:

    Hardball does have a great tendency to over penetrate and ricochet - that said there are a number of people that carry it and will tell you that it is all about shot placement.

    What ever defensive load you choose, there is still the necessity to make sure that specific round will feed reliably in your pistol.

    My personal favorites are Cor-bon DPX and Federal HST. During the summer, my first mag is loaded with frangible.

    Generally any hollow point is better than ball ommo IMHO.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Wolfman's Avatar
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    Neuroblades, that was a well put-together explanation of things. Thank you for taking the time to make me aware of the potential hazards of ventilating someone with ball ammo. Actually, I'm already somewhat familiar with the subject and the need for expanding rounds in a self-defense scenario. I'm also fortunate in that most of my time is spent in rural areas where over-penetration is less likely to harm someone, although ricochets could be a problem.

    At the moment I do have a single JHP round, which I'm using for my +1. A friend found it rattling around in his drawer and gave it to me. I'd certainly like to have more, but after buying the gun and a cheapo holster, I only enough money left over for one box of bullets and I wanted to be able to put a few rounds through it and still have enough to top my mags off. Embarrassing, yes, but this is the sorry situation I find myself in.

    With regards to hollow points blooming, I have been under the impression that it was the force of impact and penetration that opened them. You say they bloom immediately after leaving the barrel? Could you please explain how this works, or link me to a source that can?

    Also glad to know I'm not the only one in this part of the state carrying a weapon.

    And Grapeshot, I don't have any experience with frangible ammo, although at some point I'll have to get some for my eventual trip to Thunder Ranch. What sort of damage would a frangible round do to a human body?

  19. #19
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfman View Post
    snip.......With regards to hollow points blooming, I have been under the impression that it was the force of impact and penetration that opened them. You say they bloom immediately after leaving the barrel? Could you please explain how this works, or link me to a source that can?

    And Grapeshot, I don't have any experience with frangible ammo, although at some point I'll have to get some for my eventual trip to Thunder Ranch. What sort of damage would a frangible round do to a human body?
    Hollow points do not bloom/expand out of the barrel - must meet with resistance.

    Frangible is powdered copper, bonded with a resin - lighter and faster it pulverizes when striking a target resulting in a wound channel that is shorter but much wider. Because of this "turning to sand" characteristic, there is NO possibility of ricochet or over penetration. Down side is that their effectiveness is negated by heavy clothing.

    At the end, this video shows the AWSOME wound channel of the Sinterfire 45ACP frangible, which is what I recommend.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEEdJYrB6PY

    http://www.frangibleammo.com/
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 11-16-2010 at 09:29 AM. Reason: added
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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