Doug Huffman
Banned
That certainly was not my intention.
-
We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
-
If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
-
Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.
WCI Announcement: Constitutional Carry picks up steam in Wisconsin
- Thread starter Wisconsin Carry Inc. - Chairman
- Start date
skorittnig
Regular Member
I know this was not your intention- but I should have consulted with the person(s) for which I was speculating. We should all avoid this, as it serves only to "dumb" our discussions down.
J.Gleason
Banned
While I believe we should have a united front here in Wisconsin, we all need to remember that those groups are primarily supporting concealed carry. While I am sure they like the thought of no permit as much as we do, I am also sure they support mandated training. Now with that said there is already a fall back in position by WCI for free training for those who will need it, so that should, in theory remove that obstacle.
In order to make an alliance (Hmm, Wisconsin Carry Alliance, a new group name maybe) we need to remember to show support for the other groups concerns as well.
Not only should we continue to work toward the repeal, but also move to the ear of Gunderson, push the likes of Gene German out of our way and sit down at the legislative table as just that, the Alliance. With free training there is no need for German to even be involved in the bill in any way. He is from Minnesota, let him worry about his own state.
I have had some very good conversations with my legislators in the past two weeks. Senator Frank Lasee stated to me that he is very interested in the repeal as it meets his agenda for VT style carry. I have also heard back from my state assemblyman a copy of which I have attached here. The tide is right, the house and senate are right, the Gov's office is on board. The issue we are falling up against is convincing these people that moving from a complete ban on CCW to VT style or Constitutional Carry is not such a ridiculous move. As proven in Arizona for example there is no blood in the streets, no wild west shoot outs and still the crime rate continues to drop. Taking all of those baby steps did nothing more than cost the tax payers more money in legislation, fees and taxes. It increased government and more than likely all of those government jobs are probably still sucking up tax dollars when the positions are no longer needed. They were not, after all, needed in the first place.
It is a tough argument ahead but if we unite we will have a better chance of overcoming the obstacle.
AS far as Corey Graf, well OK invite WGO too, we can always use 1 more person.
Al Ott
State Representative • 3rd Assembly District
November 9, 2010
Mr. James Gleason
15 Lehner Street
Chilton,WI 53014
Dear Mr. Gleason,
Thank you for taking the time to contact me the morning following the election to express your
support for the repeal of s. 941.23 of the Wisconsin State Statutes, relating to the possession of a
concealed weapon. I also appreciate your subsequent follow-up calls and email messages.
As you know, Governor-elect Walker ran on a strong platform of balancing the state budget,
improving our economic climate, and bringing jobs back to Wisconsin. These are the issues the
Governor-elect and the new Republican majorities in the Assembly and Senate will be tackling
immediately at the start of the new legislative session. Governor-elect Walker met with the
Assembly Republican caucus yesterday to reiterate his desire to work with the Legislature to
make certain, "Wisconsin is Open for Business."
While the issue of concealed carry is an important one - and Wisconsin is long over due in
addressing this issue -1 do not believe concealed carry will be a primary focus in the opening
days or months of the new legislative session. First and foremost, we must get our fiscal house
in order with a no-gimmicks balanced budget and focus on reforms to drive our economy
forward. The people of Wisconsin have clearly stated this is their number one priority.
I am confident, however, that during this legislative session Wisconsin will - at long last -join
nearly every other state in allowing law-abiding citizens to carry a concealed weapon.
Following our conversation last week, I discussed this matter with Representative Scott
Gunderson, who has led the fight to bring Wisconsin in line with the rest of the country on the
issue of concealed carry rights.
As you have indicated, Representative Gunderson does intend to once again author legislation
that would make Wisconsin a "shall-issue" state. This would put Wisconsin among the ranks of
the 37 other "shall-issue" states, including our neighboring states of Minnesota, Iowa, and
Michigan.
I do not oppose this approach and look forward to reviewing the bill once it is made available.
While I understand and support your desire for limited government bureaucracy, I do not find it
to be unreasonable that we would take an incremental approach to instituting concealed carry in
Wisconsin by going from one of two states with a prohibition on this practice to one of 37 with a
"shall-issue" law. I am not certain there would be adequate public or legislative support for
going from one extreme (absolute prohibition) to the other (being one of two states with no
permitting requirements). At this time, I do not intend to author a bill to repeal s. 941.23, but
would give such a bill consideration if it were to come before the Assembly.
I look forward to working with my legislative colleagues and Goveror-elect Walker on this and
many other important issues facing the State of Wisconsin.
Again, thank you for taking the time to let me know of your position on concealed carry
legislation. It is clear that you are well versed on and passionate about this topic, and I do
appreciate hearing from you.
Sincerely,
AlOtt
State Representative
3rd Assembly District
Office: P.O. Box 8953 • Madison, WI 53708 • (608) 266-5831 • Toll-Free: (888) 534-OO03 • Rep.Ort<S>legis.wi.gov
Home: P.O. Box 112 • Forest Junction, WI 54123-0112 • (920) 989-124O
In order to make an alliance (Hmm, Wisconsin Carry Alliance, a new group name maybe) we need to remember to show support for the other groups concerns as well.
Not only should we continue to work toward the repeal, but also move to the ear of Gunderson, push the likes of Gene German out of our way and sit down at the legislative table as just that, the Alliance. With free training there is no need for German to even be involved in the bill in any way. He is from Minnesota, let him worry about his own state.
I have had some very good conversations with my legislators in the past two weeks. Senator Frank Lasee stated to me that he is very interested in the repeal as it meets his agenda for VT style carry. I have also heard back from my state assemblyman a copy of which I have attached here. The tide is right, the house and senate are right, the Gov's office is on board. The issue we are falling up against is convincing these people that moving from a complete ban on CCW to VT style or Constitutional Carry is not such a ridiculous move. As proven in Arizona for example there is no blood in the streets, no wild west shoot outs and still the crime rate continues to drop. Taking all of those baby steps did nothing more than cost the tax payers more money in legislation, fees and taxes. It increased government and more than likely all of those government jobs are probably still sucking up tax dollars when the positions are no longer needed. They were not, after all, needed in the first place.
It is a tough argument ahead but if we unite we will have a better chance of overcoming the obstacle.
AS far as Corey Graf, well OK invite WGO too, we can always use 1 more person.
Al Ott
State Representative • 3rd Assembly District
November 9, 2010
Mr. James Gleason
15 Lehner Street
Chilton,WI 53014
Dear Mr. Gleason,
Thank you for taking the time to contact me the morning following the election to express your
support for the repeal of s. 941.23 of the Wisconsin State Statutes, relating to the possession of a
concealed weapon. I also appreciate your subsequent follow-up calls and email messages.
As you know, Governor-elect Walker ran on a strong platform of balancing the state budget,
improving our economic climate, and bringing jobs back to Wisconsin. These are the issues the
Governor-elect and the new Republican majorities in the Assembly and Senate will be tackling
immediately at the start of the new legislative session. Governor-elect Walker met with the
Assembly Republican caucus yesterday to reiterate his desire to work with the Legislature to
make certain, "Wisconsin is Open for Business."
While the issue of concealed carry is an important one - and Wisconsin is long over due in
addressing this issue -1 do not believe concealed carry will be a primary focus in the opening
days or months of the new legislative session. First and foremost, we must get our fiscal house
in order with a no-gimmicks balanced budget and focus on reforms to drive our economy
forward. The people of Wisconsin have clearly stated this is their number one priority.
I am confident, however, that during this legislative session Wisconsin will - at long last -join
nearly every other state in allowing law-abiding citizens to carry a concealed weapon.
Following our conversation last week, I discussed this matter with Representative Scott
Gunderson, who has led the fight to bring Wisconsin in line with the rest of the country on the
issue of concealed carry rights.
As you have indicated, Representative Gunderson does intend to once again author legislation
that would make Wisconsin a "shall-issue" state. This would put Wisconsin among the ranks of
the 37 other "shall-issue" states, including our neighboring states of Minnesota, Iowa, and
Michigan.
I do not oppose this approach and look forward to reviewing the bill once it is made available.
While I understand and support your desire for limited government bureaucracy, I do not find it
to be unreasonable that we would take an incremental approach to instituting concealed carry in
Wisconsin by going from one of two states with a prohibition on this practice to one of 37 with a
"shall-issue" law. I am not certain there would be adequate public or legislative support for
going from one extreme (absolute prohibition) to the other (being one of two states with no
permitting requirements). At this time, I do not intend to author a bill to repeal s. 941.23, but
would give such a bill consideration if it were to come before the Assembly.
I look forward to working with my legislative colleagues and Goveror-elect Walker on this and
many other important issues facing the State of Wisconsin.
Again, thank you for taking the time to let me know of your position on concealed carry
legislation. It is clear that you are well versed on and passionate about this topic, and I do
appreciate hearing from you.
Sincerely,
AlOtt
State Representative
3rd Assembly District
Office: P.O. Box 8953 • Madison, WI 53708 • (608) 266-5831 • Toll-Free: (888) 534-OO03 • Rep.Ort<S>legis.wi.gov
Home: P.O. Box 112 • Forest Junction, WI 54123-0112 • (920) 989-124O
Last edited:
skorittnig
Regular Member
Gray Peterson
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
Pre-election day. Things have completely changed. Besides, WCI will be getting instructors who will train people, both members and non-members, as a public service, for gratis.
Once the instructors who are demanding training to purely pad their income see this, they will drop their demand and will have to compete with the free service that WCI's instructors will offer.
skorittnig
Regular Member
Is there a way to become certified in order to provide these free services for our citizens? Does anyone have info. on how to begin this process?
Doug Huffman
Banned
Doug, if you do not cease the attacks against other gun rights organizations, by calling them "tyrants" and "wannabe leadahs" (your quotes), I will put your account on a moderated status to where none of your posts will be made until approved by the moderator team. This is your last warning. You will respect the rules of OCDO, or you will lose your privilege to post here where your words can be seen. Are we clear? -OCDO Moderator
Gray Peterson
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
Until the bill is written, we will have no idea. I expect WCI to publish and give a guide to everyone.
skorittnig
Regular Member
It would be nice to have some insight- and be as prepared as possible. A mad scramble at the last minute to obtain the appropriate certification/education may prove to be counter productive, and present road-blocks.
Doug Huffman
Banned
Any advance 'notice' will be rank speculation. In Wisconsin the legislature's Legislative Reference Bureau writes proposed bills/legislation with input from the legislature/legislator and not from the public/special interests.
http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lrb/pubs/bluebook.htm
http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lrb/index.htm
http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lrb/pubs/bluebook.htm
http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lrb/index.htm
Gray Peterson
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
I can't see a Utah/Minnesota-style instruction system passing in Wisconsin. There's no point. I strongly suspect there will not be training at all. Remember that it's a weapons license, not a firearms license.
anmut
Regular Member
In having a conversation with people that want CC but by permit and to include training, let them know that
1) we understand where they are coming from in a business stand-point BUT
2) allowing constitutional carry will absolutely allow for more business down the line than mandatory training.
Why?
- Mandatory training and taxes will severely limit the number of people who choose to carry, especially in a down economy.
- Constitutional Carry will allow all those that are OC'ing now to throw a coat over their holster in the winter and, presumably, these same folk are already very familiar with laws and safety.
- Overall if more people start to Constitutional Carry, the more people will be interested in it. When that happens I can see more women and people that may be disabled, people that have very little knowledge will now want to take classes to inform themselves.
Less bureaucrats and a free market when it comes to our rights and the money will flow freely.
1) we understand where they are coming from in a business stand-point BUT
2) allowing constitutional carry will absolutely allow for more business down the line than mandatory training.
Why?
- Mandatory training and taxes will severely limit the number of people who choose to carry, especially in a down economy.
- Constitutional Carry will allow all those that are OC'ing now to throw a coat over their holster in the winter and, presumably, these same folk are already very familiar with laws and safety.
- Overall if more people start to Constitutional Carry, the more people will be interested in it. When that happens I can see more women and people that may be disabled, people that have very little knowledge will now want to take classes to inform themselves.
Less bureaucrats and a free market when it comes to our rights and the money will flow freely.
Doug Huffman
Banned
removed useless comment -OCDO moderator team It is hypothetical at this time.
Last edited:
M
McX
Guest
we are all holding our breaths, with the new alliances being formed with other gun organizations, the tireless efforts of WisconsinCarry, and members here, there is a possibility we may get something other than a permit system. But the elected leaders rank and file seemed to have forgotten their party stance, and recently modified it to be a permit idea. many see this as blantant revenuing, and a means to moderate and control. to many this is an offensive idea. we are hoping the public will see our point of view, and exert pressure on the elected officials as well. but consider the results of the past this is indeed a golden moment for us, with much more hope than we have seen in many years. time will tell for all of us. at least our organization WisconsinCarry has already illustrated to us the plan B option of them fast tracking training requirement classes for us, and then being there for us on the other side, for and if the issues emerge of patterning, or accidental exposure of a concealed firearm. Historic times to be sure.
blaze
New member
Glad to see someone else has the spirits pegged.
Doug Huffman
Banned
Thanks.
Thanks to the Good Doctor, Doctor Bombay (Sapphire), with tunes in my earbuds, Popper's Logic of Scientific Discovery on the KINDLE and a notebook and pen full of ink for notes.
WCCCI is a good periodic break for a sip. But $100/gallon is killing the budget - demonstrating inflation in a glass darkly.
blaze
New member
LOL, lets get drunk and be somebody. Great advice from Mr. Keith.
Gray Peterson
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
The ban on concealed carry applies to all weapons. Be sorta stupid to have it as purely a firearms license and not a weapons license.
Peacekeeper
Regular Member
Thanks for the info Nik. You have my support.
Captain Nemo
Regular Member
Wake up call
Nik is the carrier of good news. Finally there is a hint of a coalition. Possibly of WCI, Ohio Buckeye, Icarry, WGO and Sisters of the second amendment, hopefully others. Unfortunately, true to it's nature, instead of seeing an opportunity the members and interlopers of this forum have to try their best to diminish it's importance. The very fact that other organizations are seeking WCI out is significant. It means that it is gaining a high level of respect and awareness by other groups as a big player in the game. Pogo was right. We have met the enemy and he is us. I reported many timess in the past that if we are to win this game all gun rights groups must come together as a unified force. In the past it was futile to even talk about an alliance because every group wanted to be tall hog at the trough. It looks like there may now be a possibility of an alliance being organized. Mark my words. One group alone is not going to win over the gang of Gunderson, Fendry, German and the NRA. It ain't going to happen for these reasons: Personal carry of firearms is not going to be a priority item with the 2011 legislature. Things like, jobs, state economy, health care are going to dominate the session. If issues of firearm carry come up it will be later in the session rather than sooner. By then the legislature will be tired and ornery from party wrangling. When the issue of firearm carry comes up the Republican legislature will want a quick solution to get it off the table fast and to satisfy it's campaign promise. For those very reasons Gunderson's resurrection of the Personal Protection Act (I'm speculating a bit here) will be very appealing to the legislature. Gunderson has the reputation of being there and done that and of being successful of getting the PPA passed through both the Assembly and with Dave Zien, the Senate twice before. His recommendations will be given a great deal of credence. If the battle comes down to the wire as a contest between WCI and it's proposition for constitutional choice of carry and Gunderson's proposal for permits and mandatory training rest assured we are at a distinct disadvantage. All he need do is show to the legislative committees copies of interchanges on this forum, including the WCI chairman, to demonstrate that people of that irresponsible nature should not be given serious thought. Those of you that are familiar with the legislative process know he wouldn't need to convince the whole legislature that we are irresonsible. He would only need to convince 6 members of the 11 member Assembly Committee on Criminal Justice and 3 members of the Senate Committee on Judiciary, Corrections, Insurance, Campaign Finance Reform and Housing. A bill doesn't even get to the legislature houses until it passes committee and is then presented for a floor vote. Yes, politics is that dirty. This is our chance. We may not get everything we wish but if we don't clean up our act we will get little at all. We either need to act like the intelligent and mature people we think we are or build a shrine to Pogo.
Nik is the carrier of good news. Finally there is a hint of a coalition. Possibly of WCI, Ohio Buckeye, Icarry, WGO and Sisters of the second amendment, hopefully others. Unfortunately, true to it's nature, instead of seeing an opportunity the members and interlopers of this forum have to try their best to diminish it's importance. The very fact that other organizations are seeking WCI out is significant. It means that it is gaining a high level of respect and awareness by other groups as a big player in the game. Pogo was right. We have met the enemy and he is us. I reported many timess in the past that if we are to win this game all gun rights groups must come together as a unified force. In the past it was futile to even talk about an alliance because every group wanted to be tall hog at the trough. It looks like there may now be a possibility of an alliance being organized. Mark my words. One group alone is not going to win over the gang of Gunderson, Fendry, German and the NRA. It ain't going to happen for these reasons: Personal carry of firearms is not going to be a priority item with the 2011 legislature. Things like, jobs, state economy, health care are going to dominate the session. If issues of firearm carry come up it will be later in the session rather than sooner. By then the legislature will be tired and ornery from party wrangling. When the issue of firearm carry comes up the Republican legislature will want a quick solution to get it off the table fast and to satisfy it's campaign promise. For those very reasons Gunderson's resurrection of the Personal Protection Act (I'm speculating a bit here) will be very appealing to the legislature. Gunderson has the reputation of being there and done that and of being successful of getting the PPA passed through both the Assembly and with Dave Zien, the Senate twice before. His recommendations will be given a great deal of credence. If the battle comes down to the wire as a contest between WCI and it's proposition for constitutional choice of carry and Gunderson's proposal for permits and mandatory training rest assured we are at a distinct disadvantage. All he need do is show to the legislative committees copies of interchanges on this forum, including the WCI chairman, to demonstrate that people of that irresponsible nature should not be given serious thought. Those of you that are familiar with the legislative process know he wouldn't need to convince the whole legislature that we are irresonsible. He would only need to convince 6 members of the 11 member Assembly Committee on Criminal Justice and 3 members of the Senate Committee on Judiciary, Corrections, Insurance, Campaign Finance Reform and Housing. A bill doesn't even get to the legislature houses until it passes committee and is then presented for a floor vote. Yes, politics is that dirty. This is our chance. We may not get everything we wish but if we don't clean up our act we will get little at all. We either need to act like the intelligent and mature people we think we are or build a shrine to Pogo.