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Thread: The Tactical Mind

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    The Tactical Mind

    Sitting at the coffee shop today, like most days, studying. This particular coffee shop is frequented by the local LEO's. I am at the coffee shop at different times, and so the LEO's that come through are not the same. I would say a dozen-or-so have been spotted at different hours.

    My point:

    I walk into the coffee shop and sit furthest to the back, facing the front door. I figure it's the best tactical position for me, just in case SHTF while I am enjoying a cup.

    All of the officers with the exception of one, which happen to be female, sit at the front next to the door, back to the front glass of the coffee shop. They can't see who is coming in or who would be standing behind them from outside the window.

    When I see LEO's doing crap like that I think they either weren't properly trained, or they have become too confident in the uniform and too comfortable.

    Where do you sit when entering any business? Do you find yourself at times not having a tactical mind, sitting at the front with your back to the entry way of the business you happen to be in?

    Heck, maybe I am just paranoid...RIGHT
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Sitting at the coffee shop today, like most days, studying. This particular coffee shop is frequented by the local LEO's. I am at the coffee shop at different times, and so the LEO's that come through are not the same. I would say a dozen-or-so have been spotted at different hours.

    My point:

    I walk into the coffee shop and sit furthest to the back, facing the front door. I figure it's the best tactical position for me, just in case SHTF while I am enjoying a cup.

    All of the officers with the exception of one, which happen to be female, sit at the front next to the door, back to the front glass of the coffee shop. They can't see who is coming in or who would be standing behind them from outside the window.

    When I see LEO's doing crap like that I think they either weren't properly trained, or they have become too confident in the uniform and too comfortable.

    Where do you sit when entering any business? Do you find yourself at times not having a tactical mind, sitting at the front with your back to the entry way of the business you happen to be in?

    Heck, maybe I am just paranoid...RIGHT
    Hi and welcome back on the net Sarah.
    My wife gets really POed at me when we go out to eat. If I cannot find a seat with my back to a wall and facing the entrance I wait until one is available.
    Last edited by Trigger Dr; 11-13-2010 at 12:49 AM.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    Hi and welcome back on the net Sarah.
    My wife gets really POed at me when we go out to eat. If I cannot find a seat with my back to a wall and facing the entrance I wait until one is available.
    I wait or go somewhere else. I feel very uncomfortable and believe it is very unsafe to not being able to scan over my environment. My partner and I rarely sit across from one another, we are typical sitting beside one another. I do not sit on aisle seats where my right side is exposed, I always sit with my right inside...I am right-handed. If S-does-HTF I don't want the perp to see what I got planned for him until it is to late for him.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member XDM 9MM Squared's Avatar
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    That is just good practice, I too have done that for the last 31 years. I was taught that the first few months in the Army.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Sitting at the coffee shop today, like most days, studying. This particular coffee shop is frequented by the local LEO's. I am at the coffee shop at different times, and so the LEO's that come through are not the same. I would say a dozen-or-so have been spotted at different hours.

    My point:

    I walk into the coffee shop and sit furthest to the back, facing the front door. I figure it's the best tactical position for me, just in case SHTF while I am enjoying a cup.

    All of the officers with the exception of one, which happen to be female, sit at the front next to the door, back to the front glass of the coffee shop. They can't see who is coming in or who would be standing behind them from outside the window.

    When I see LEO's doing crap like that I think they either weren't properly trained, or they have become too confident in the uniform and too comfortable.

    Where do you sit when entering any business? Do you find yourself at times not having a tactical mind, sitting at the front with your back to the entry way of the business you happen to be in?

    Heck, maybe I am just paranoid...RIGHT
    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    Hi and welcome back on the net Sarah.
    My wife gets really POed at me when we go out to eat. If I cannot find a seat with my back to a wall and facing the entrance I wait until one is available.
    I do the same...ask me the story some time.
    Live Free or Die!

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Same here. First thing I do is go and find the bathroom so I can wash my hands. Along the way I make a note of any kitchen doors, back doors, (escape routes) and glance around at who's who. My vehicle is always parked facing an escape route. I back into 95% of the parking spaces, The ones I go forward into, I can easily drive over curbs and get to the road if I had to.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
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    Regular Member USMC1911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    Same here. First thing I do is go and find the bathroom so I can wash my hands. Along the way I make a note of any kitchen doors, back doors, (escape routes) and glance around at who's who. My vehicle is always parked facing an escape route. I back into 95% of the parking spaces, The ones I go forward into, I can easily drive over curbs and get to the road if I had to.
    I also do this ^
    Not paranoid ... just being safe, being aware, being ready, being a Sheepdog and not a sheeple.
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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    I like to sit in the back facing the door as well. I also try and sit where I can access the rear exit which is often through the kitchen. I refuse to be "cornered" without a way out.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    I practice what is mostly presented here and to add, I stay away from booths as well.
    If caught in one you have no room to maneuver.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Regular Member skiingislife725's Avatar
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    Like with everything, there's pros and cons to each side. Sitting by the door gives you a view on people approaching the building before the SHTF, as opposed to when they come storming in. Although that's negated if you've got your back to the door. Sitting by the door also gives you a possible escape route...especially important if you've got an unarmed wife or kid to worry about.

    With that said, my only preference is sitting facing the door. If the stuff is going down toward the counter inside the store...I might be able to make my way to the front door. If it starts going down as soon as they come in, then I might be able to work my way to the back of the establishment.

    I think it totally depends upon your personal situation. Do you have a wife and kids with you? Are you willing to duke it out or do you just want to get out safely? Where do you think the threat will occur? At the counter in the middle of the store? At the front door? It all can change where the best place is to be in the store, IMHO.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Some good points Skiing.

    Me I know my personality is not just for myself but for who ever else might be endangered so fleeing probably won't be my response. If I feel someone is there to do harm to someone else and I don't do something I'd have a hard time not feeling bloodguilty.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

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    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiingislife725 View Post
    I think it totally depends upon your personal situation. Do you have a wife and kids with you? Are you willing to duke it out or do you just want to get out safely? Where do you think the threat will occur? At the counter in the middle of the store? At the front door? It all can change where the best place is to be in the store, IMHO.
    Whether I am with my partner and kids or alone, I still would have to fight it out with the perp. Chances are if the perp is coming into the establishment it is to rob the place, so it is likely they are going to go for the register...I don't read much about hold-ups like that these days.

    As much as I would like to be able to escape and run from the place, I can't help but think about the people, whom I don't know, that i would be leaving behind in the chaos...I would stay, personally and fight it out. Pretty sad if the only person in the room with a means of defense makes a run for it and leaves everyone else (sheep) behind for the wolf.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Whether I am with my partner and kids or alone, I still would have to fight it out with the perp. Chances are if the perp is coming into the establishment it is to rob the place, so it is likely they are going to go for the register...I don't read much about hold-ups like that these days.

    As much as I would like to be able to escape and run from the place, I can't help but think about the people, whom I don't know, that i would be leaving behind in the chaos...I would stay, personally and fight it out. Pretty sad if the only person in the room with a means of defense makes a run for it and leaves everyone else (sheep) behind for the wolf.
    Very TRUE and I agree with you.

    HOWEVER if they are the ones who either made mistakes and cannot legally own a weapon, or are too blind and ignorant to carry one, perhaps we should let Darwinism take hold every now and again???
    "And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    Hi and welcome back on the net Sarah.
    My wife gets really POed at me when we go out to eat. If I cannot find a seat with my back to a wall and facing the entrance I wait until one is available.
    Me too!

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    Personally, I don't think I could live with myself very well if I could have done something to stop a massacre and people died because I didn't. I don't live just for myself and I don't carry a gun just for myself. Everyone out there, sheeple included have lives, have loved ones they want to go home to. I would not try to be a hero and do something stupid, but if I could stop it, I would.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Whether I am with my partner and kids or alone, I still would have to fight it out with the perp. Chances are if the perp is coming into the establishment it is to rob the place, so it is likely they are going to go for the register...I don't read much about hold-ups like that these days.

    As much as I would like to be able to escape and run from the place, I can't help but think about the people, whom I don't know, that i would be leaving behind in the chaos...I would stay, personally and fight it out. Pretty sad if the only person in the room with a means of defense makes a run for it and leaves everyone else (sheep) behind for the wolf.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby View Post
    Personally, I don't think I could live with myself very well if I could have done something to stop a massacre and people died because I didn't. I don't live just for myself and I don't carry a gun just for myself. Everyone out there, sheeple included have lives, have loved ones they want to go home to. I would not try to be a hero and do something stupid, but if I could stop it, I would.
    Is there a situation where you would put your children's or spouses life ahead of your own to ensure their future safety? (in these type of scenarios)

    If things go wrong and you do not make it for some odd reason, are they cared for, will your absence be greatly missed? I think so.

    While I feel an obligation for society as a whole a greater priority is for my family and loved ones and will live with the fact of not being able to save everyone. After all we all make a choice to defend ourselves or not, it is a choice.
    Last edited by BigDave; 11-13-2010 at 11:27 PM.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Is there a situation where you would put your children's or spouses life ahead of your own to ensure their future safety? (in these type of scenarios)

    If things go wrong and you do not make it for some odd reason, are they cared for, will your absence be greatly missed? I think so.

    While I feel an obligation for society as a whole a greater priority is for my family and loved ones and will live with the fact of not being able to save everyone. After all we all make a choice to defend ourselves or not, it is a choice.

    The choice will be different for each one of us. I don't currently have a spouse, have no children, so that part is not a concern for me. If I were with other family members(none in this area)or friends, their safety as well as my own would be my first priority of course. As with most self defense scenarios, each one is different and you won't know what you will do until the situation presents itself. We think we know what we will do, or what we will intend to do, but as with anything else in life, there is much that is out of our control.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Is there a situation where you would put your children's or spouses life ahead of your own to ensure their future safety? (in these type of scenarios)

    If things go wrong and you do not make it for some odd reason, are they cared for, will your absence be greatly missed? I think so.

    While I feel an obligation for society as a whole a greater priority is for my family and loved ones and will live with the fact of not being able to save everyone. After all we all make a choice to defend ourselves or not, it is a choice.
    I agree, the priority is for and should be for our individual families. I agree, people choose to not be prepared, and to not have the tools and knowledge to defend themselves...they pay the price. Just because you are running out the door though, doesn't mean you aren't going to get shot in the back...I would more likely take cover than run and ready myself to return fire.

    BTW, my partner and I have covered and practiced what the kids are to do if we are ever under attack...we have one word that when yelled, the kids know what to do. If out in public and the kids are close to one another they are supposed to huddle together, if they are apart they are to hit the deck with their hands over their head. Call me paranoid, but I like to have the kids just as prepared as I am for if we have the unfortunate experience of being caught up in a situation we can't get out of.

    I have asked myself if SHTF and I was sitting in my home with my four months supply of food and sufficient amount of water, would I help someone outside of my family if their family was in need...I want to say yes, but I don't think that I can.

    That being said, there are certain circumstances where if I see something going down, I will be on it without hesitation...sometimes I wish that I wasn't so inclined to jump into other peoples business, but I can't seem to help myself, and I will likely pay the price for that natural instinct.
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 11-14-2010 at 12:51 AM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member Tomas's Avatar
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    Heh. I tend to sit on the side of an enclosed area rather than in a corner or in the back. I try to have not just the main entrance in view, but ALL entrances to the room in view, and at a reasonable distance.

    I greatly prefer chairs to booths.

    I prefer my right side free to move, but reasonably out of view.

    I try to keep an eye on "normal" traffic flow, and take note when something breaks that pattern, even if it appears benign.

    I've pretty much done this since I came back from 'Nam...

    I don't think it is unusual at all, and I notice most of the ex-military guys around me tend to behave similarly. Not a one of them is comfortable with their back to the door or the crowd.
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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomas View Post
    Heh. I tend to sit on the side of an enclosed area rather than in a corner or in the back. I try to have not just the main entrance in view, but ALL entrances to the room in view, and at a reasonable distance.

    I greatly prefer chairs to booths.

    I prefer my right side free to move, but reasonably out of view.

    I try to keep an eye on "normal" traffic flow, and take note when something breaks that pattern, even if it appears benign.

    I've pretty much done this since I came back from 'Nam...

    I don't think it is unusual at all, and I notice most of the ex-military guys around me tend to behave similarly. Not a one of them is comfortable with their back to the door or the crowd.

    I'm the guy that the protection detail watches, because I'm constantly watching everyone else, instead of focusing on the person I'm supposed to be there to see (the protectee)..

    LOL.

    In large venues, I'm constantly scanning the crowd... you can always pick out the people who 'don't belong'..

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    If things go wrong and you do not make it for some odd reason, are they cared for, will your absence be greatly missed? I think so.
    I've got an ex-wife I don't miss.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member skiingislife725's Avatar
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    Not sure if the "fleeing is a no-no" stuff was directed at me or not, but I'll throw in my two cents on it anyhow.

    My main priority is my fiance and the rest of my family/friends that are around me at the time. Second place to that are bystanders. I am not a superhero. I could not live with myself if I decided to engage someone and my fiance got shot in the process, when I could have escorted her out first. I am going to escort my family out before I decide to duke it out. Once they are safe, then that's another story. If I'm alone, that's another story. Then I think it's your responsibility to protect bystanders. But if I'm with my family, they come first...I'm getting them out safely first, then I'll worry about whoever else might be in danger.

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    I routinely get "in trouble" when I go out to eat with someone because they think I am not paying attention to the conversation. I am paying attention to them but I am also ALWAYS checking out my surroundings with casual glances and reflections off objects.

    Having my back to the door bugs me but not to the point of leaving or waiting for a specific table.

    Situational awareness for me is either all on or all off. There is no half-way.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheJeepster View Post
    Situational awareness for me is either all on or all off. There is no half-way.
    I am rarely unaware...nearly all the time I am at orange when it comes to awareness. I would rather be in orange all the time than white.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  25. #25
    Regular Member Aryk45XD's Avatar
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    I don't see any paranoid people here.

    Situational awareness is something that humans have evolved to keep out of really bad situations. Just call me more human than human. I scan crowds, sit in a chair in the back or side facing the door, and chase shadows or reflections. It's become a fun little game for me.

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