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Thread: Disorderly conduct response

  1. #1
    Regular Member Onnie's Avatar
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    Disorderly conduct response

    Last month I conversation with a CPL holder, we were in discussion about CC vs. OC. During our conversation he mentioned that the Monroe County prosecutor spoke at his handgun safety class in 2009. He stated the Prosecutor, William Paul Nichols made the statement that if a citizen who was engaged in Open Carry had five complaints against him for open carrying his office would charge that person with Disorderly Conduct.

    As we all know that if the OC'er is engaged in legal Open Carry and charged with DC that those charges are generally drummed up. So I figured I would get the word from the man himself.

    Due to my schedule I was unable to get a face-to-face meeting with Mr. Nichols so I figure it was better to write a letter and have his explanation in writing rather orally.

    Basically I hit on 2 points, the legality of open carry, and the policy of his office "Monroe County Prosecutor" when it came to charging OC'ers with disorderly conduct.

    His response:

    This letter is in response to your correspondence dated November 8, 2010 concerning questions involving the open carry of a handgun. Your letter is correct in mentioning that I lecture at various pistol safety-training classes for individuals interested in applying for a concealed pistol licenses. Although this has become more time consuming as the number of classes has increased in recent years, I believe that providing this information and answering any questions is extremely beneficial because the attendees are given a comprehensive overview of the “concealed carry” laws in our state. However I never stated that an individual could be lawfully charged with “disorderly conduct” if there were five “complaints” lodged against that person for openly carrying a handgun. We both know that such a statement is incorrect based on Michigan Law.

    Thank you for enclosing a copy of Michigan state police legal update no. 86. I had previously received a copy of this legal update from Sergeant Aimee Maike of the Training and Standards Division of the Michigan State Police.

    /s/
    Last edited by Onnie; 11-13-2010 at 12:50 PM.
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    Wasn't there a thread about this before?

    Thumbs up on your successful resolution on this issue though.

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    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    Good work Onnie! That was the reply I was hoping to hear.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Onnie's Avatar
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    Lets hope the LEO's here follow his statment as time goes on.......only time will tell I am sure
    When Guns are OUTLAWED, Ill be an OUTLAW
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    I'm curious who screwed up. The person who reported the "five complaints" info to the OPer? Or, the prosecutor?

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Why go for opinions when the answers are provided in the Michigan Penal Code?

    Michigan Penal Code

    Michigan Penal code description of a Disorderly Person

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    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    An opinion shows what the person thinks and or understands.The truth is always good to hear.
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    Regular Member Onnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamaneggs View Post
    An opinion shows what the person thinks and or understands.The truth is always good to hear.
    Lets hope his word is as good as he claims. How many times have we heard an offical say the law does not mean what it says...take the guy in front of the gun board in Muskegon County. He was told (wrongfully) yea thats what it says, but thats not what it means!

    Go figure!
    When Guns are OUTLAWED, Ill be an OUTLAW
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    Hi point C9 9mm
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    Im not a lawyer, but I did play a Klingon once at Universal Studios

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    It is sometimes good to find out opinions. And it's good to clear up 2nd hand information.

    I had once been told that carrying more than one pistol on my CPL would get me in hot water in Romulus, MI. That info came 2nd, or maybe even 3rd hand, so I contacted the chief of police in Romulus to ask him. He told me, that what I had been told was totally false. He said as long as I had a CPL, I could conceal 10 pistols on my person, and it would make no difference to his department, as long as I complied with the law.

    However, I did find out that one time Wayne County prosecutor, Mike Duggan was just hoping to get a hold of someone packing more than one pistol on a CPL, he would have charged them with carrying the 2nd pistol without a license, as his opinion was it only covered possession of one pistol at a time. He was a total jerk anyway.
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    Which one of the pistols would they point to, saying "that's the second pistol"?

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Which one of the pistols would they point to, saying "that's the second pistol"?
    Probably the most expensive one. Fortunately, Duggan is no longer in office, and I think, in all honesty, any charges he might have tried to bring up would have been tossed out, eventually.
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  12. #12
    Regular Member kryptonian's Avatar
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    if any of these decisions by prosecuters go unchecked then a conviction for one of these would set up a case law and establish a legal standard. if a law is vague the prosecuters and judges use other convictions to set a bar for determining guilt and punishment. this is the basic premise behind case law. thanks for calling them on that keeping them from getting a legal foothold against us.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kryptonian View Post
    if any of these decisions by prosecuters go unchecked then a conviction for one of these would set up a case law and establish a legal standard. if a law is vague the prosecuters and judges use other convictions to set a bar for determining guilt and punishment. this is the basic premise behind case law. thanks for calling them on that keeping them from getting a legal foothold against us.
    I think it's called being "unconstitutionally vague" here...
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    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  14. #14
    Regular Member SlowDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kryptonian View Post
    if any of these decisions by prosecuters go unchecked then a conviction for one of these would set up a case law and establish a legal standard. if a law is vague the prosecuters and judges use other convictions to set a bar for determining guilt and punishment. this is the basic premise behind case law. thanks for calling them on that keeping them from getting a legal foothold against us.
    This is one of the things that drives me crazy. The men in black making laws which other idiots in black use calling it case law. They don't even teach Book Law anymore in law school they teach students case law so they know what to use towin cases and not what is the WRITTEN LAW...just sayin
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