A newb here...

Hey guys! Just joined today and took my first OC experiance today as well. I was really nervous to do it but I said what the heck what's the worst that could happen! It went rather well, hardly unnoticed.

But I got a S&W Sigma 9mm and the gun rocks! It's my first handgun I own and look forward to OC'ing it more often now that my nerves are in check!

But I was curious... Anyone from the Nicolasville/Lexington area?

I CC'd in Nicholasville last week. I'll OC around Georgetown and Lexington every now and then. Welcome to the site!

Sadly, the Fayette Mall, arguable the best mall for miles and miles, sports a nast "no weapons allowed" sign, so I don't OC much there. However, when we go to the mall we also usually go out to eat, which is when I'll OC. Nothing but good things from that area so far.

Good deal! Thanks for the welcome! Are there any upcoming get togethers in this area?

Sad To Hear But That's Their Choice, Not Mine!

Tribunal Power said:

Sadly, the Fayette Mall, arguable the best mall for miles and miles, sports a nast "no weapons allowed" sign, so I don't OC much there. However, when we go to the mall we also usually go out to eat, which is when I'll OC. Nothing but good things from that area so far.

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That's sad to hear that Fayette Mall has started posting those signs. Personally, I don't even look for them anymore. When in places that feel they need to post No Firearms Allowed, I either refuse to shop their business or I just CC while there. Just because they actively and freely choose to be unarmed doesn't mean I'm going to be!

autoxr84 said:

Good deal! Thanks for the welcome! Are there any upcoming get togethers in this area?

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Welcome aboard!

WELCOME! MORE PEOPLE TO THE FIGHT!

I know this is a thread revival but, I have OC'd around Georgetown, Lexington and Frankfort without any problems.
Also my first post and love the fact that people can come together to protect their rights.

Aaron

neuroblades said:

That's sad to hear that Fayette Mall has started posting those signs. Personally, I don't even look for them anymore. When in places that feel they need to post No Firearms Allowed, I either refuse to shop their business or I just CC while there. Just because they actively and freely choose to be unarmed doesn't mean I'm going to be!

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The Member said this but may have misspoke. Let's remember folks that the best way to set a good example of OC and Constitutional Rights is to always be lawful.

I agree that unless there is a metal detector there they can't really dictate what you do.

Oddly, I mentioned to my partner today when went into the Post Office that if they knew what 'some people' could do with a knife they would put up a sign 'no knives' as well. In fact you have no idea how deadly my girlfriend is with a bottle of handlotion - why the TSA makes her carry only so much and put it in a baggie!

Badger Johnson said:

The Member said this but may have misspoke. Let's remember folks that the best way to set a good example of OC and Constitutional Rights is to always be lawful.

I agree that unless there is a metal detector there they can't really dictate what you do.

Oddly, I mentioned to my partner today when went into the Post Office that if they knew what 'some people' could do with a knife they would put up a sign 'no knives' as well. In fact you have no idea how deadly my girlfriend is with a bottle of handlotion - why the TSA makes her carry only so much and put it in a baggie!

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Well, if I were OC'ing, I'd agree with you but being that I have the option to switch from OC to CC as the situation dictates, I just conceal carry my sidearm.

There is no law against doing so as these signs have no legal teeth, so to speak. If they determine that I am carrying, they can simply ask me to leave and I would respect their wishes on that level only because at this point. it COULD become a legal issue if I were to refuse.

Granted, if someone asked me to leave and I refused then they would call the police and they will of course come out and ask me to leave and IF I were foolish enough to refuse, then I would be charged with Criminal Trepassing. No one wants that to happen!

neuroblades said:

That's sad to hear that Fayette Mall has started posting those signs. Personally, I don't even look for them anymore. When in places that feel they need to post No Firearms Allowed, I either refuse to shop their business or I just CC while there. Just because they actively and freely choose to be unarmed doesn't mean I'm going to be!

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Neuroblades must be my brother. I see we see things in the same light.

neuroblades said:

Well, if I were OC'ing, I'd agree with you but being that I have the option to switch from OC to CC as the situation dictates, I just conceal carry my sidearm.

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Well in Virginia, OC or CC into a Post Office (did you read my post?) is a Federal Crime. I suspect it's also a crime in Kentucky. If it's not, then kudos to your state legislature which has somehow found a way to supersede a Federal law.

Badger Johnson said:

Well in Virginia, OC or CC into a Post Office (did you read my post?) is a Federal Crime. I suspect it's also a crime in Kentucky. If it's not, then kudos to your state legislature which has somehow found a way to supersede a Federal law.

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It's a federal crime to even take it into the parking lot, let alone the building.

Playing with fire.....

How do dealers ship handguns through the USPS then?

It's not illegal for an individual to ship a long gun through USPS either.

I OC on my motorcycle when I go through the parking lot to drop mail off.

flb_78 said:

How do dealers ship handguns through the USPS then?

It's not illegal for an individual to ship a long gun through USPS either.

I OC on my motorcycle when I go through the parking lot to drop mail off.

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Because the gun is unloaded and as such falls under the federal interstate transport law.

US926A
http://law.justia.com/us/codes/title18/18usc926a.html

If you are OC in the parking lot with a loaded firearm you are committing a felony and your lucky a knowledgeable LEO hasn't spotted you yet. I'm sure many carry in their vehicles when they go and they are committing the same felony too, but their chance of being caught is almost nil.

You on the other hand.

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/44/930

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly
possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous
weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility),
or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned
not more than 1 year, or both.

(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to -

(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons
in a Federal facility incident to hunting or
other lawful purposes.

That allows individuals to ship a long gun through the USPS and an FFL to ship handguns through the USPS.

but here's the good part.

(1) The term "Federal facility" means a building or part
thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal
employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing
their official duties.

The ban covers the building, not the parking lot.

btw, IANAL, YMMV, some assembly required, batteries not included, your results not vary, weight loss is not typical....

yada, yada, yada.

flb_78 said:

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/44/930

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly
possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous
weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility),
or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned
not more than 1 year, or both.

(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to -

(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons
in a Federal facility incident to hunting or
other lawful purposes.

That allows individuals to ship a long gun through the USPS and an FFL to ship handguns through the USPS.

but here's the good part.

(1) The term "Federal facility" means a building or part
thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal
employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing
their official duties.

The ban covers the building, not the parking lot.

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http://cfr.vlex.com/vid/232-1-conduct-postal-property-19777182#ixzz1EGvWrtnk

(a) Applicability. This section applies to all real property under the charge and control of the Postal Service, to all tenant agencies, and to all persons entering in or on such property. This section shall be posted and kept posted at a conspicuous place on all such property. This section shall not apply to (i) Any portions of real property, owned or leased by the Postal Service, that are leased or subleased by the Postal Service to private tenants for their exclusive use; (ii) With respect to sections 232.1(h)(1) and 232.1(o), sidewalks along the street frontage of postal property falling within the property lines of the Postal Service that are not physically distinguishable from adjacent municipal or other public sidewalks, and any paved areas adjacent to such sidewalks that are not physically distinguishable from such sidewalks.

(l) Weapons and explosives. No person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.

Shipping an unloaded firearm would be an official purpose, carrying a loaded one is not.

(2) Whoever shall be found guilty of violating the rules and regulations in this section while on property under the charge and control of the Postal Service is subject to fine of not more than $50 or imprisonment of not more than 30 days, or both. Nothing contained in these rules and regulations shall be construed to abrogate any other Federal laws or regulations of any State and local laws and regulations applicable to any area in which the property is situated.

This is the result of a Federally prosecuted case in Louisiana, but the state that it happened in is irrelevant, it was in Federal court.

http://volokh.com/files/dorosan.pdf

Do what you prefer man, but I'm telling you it's a crime. The only exception would be if they shared a parking lot with another business or if you were walking down the sidewalk and it crossed through postal property. Although I will concede it doesn't look like a felony, but a misdemeanor, since the imprisonment is 30 days or less.

Best I could figure is stop and put the gun in the storage compartment. Being as it is the ONLY compartment on the bike, it would have to fall under the glove box protection clause and just make sure a cop doesn't see you do it and then drive on the postal property.

But your still breaking the law.

Actually that gives me an idea for a thread....

Section 232.1(1) bans the storage or possession of weapons (concealed or otherwise) in an
enclosed postal parking lot, whereas 18 U.S.C. § 930(a) bans simple possession of a firearm in a
federal facility/building provided the requisite notice is posted as described in § 930(h).



Enclosed parking lot, meaning inside of the gates, past the sign with the legal language on it.

I don't go inside that part, I merely use the parking lot that's open to the public.

Start at the bottom of page 11 of your above link.

http://volokh.com/files/dorosan.pdf

The ban at issue does not affect the right of all individuals to bear arms at home or
traveling in a vehicle to and from work through high crime areas. Its reach does not extend
beyond the noticed, gated confines of United States Postal Services’ property. It is narrowly
tailored to effect public and workplace safety solely on postal property consistent with the
Property and Postal Clauses. Similarly, 18 U.S.C. § 930(a) criminalizes knowing possession of
dangerous weapons, but only within the confines of a federal facility/building.
Regulations forbidding the possession or carrying of firearms “in sensitive places” such as federal and/or
postal property abound; these longstanding prohibitions have been upheld.

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It should also be noted that the above mentioned case was a Postal Employee who had ammunition inside of the Post Office building itself and a load concealed handgun inside of his vehicle while it was parked inside the gated portion of the parking lot.

UnfetteredMight said:

It's a federal crime to even take it into the parking lot, let alone the building.

Playing with fire.....

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I don't carry a "firearm" into federally off limit areas. As for USPS, I don't use them.