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Thread: Encased, and in a pocket...Concealed or not?

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    Regular Member Motofixxer's Avatar
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    Encased, and in a pocket...Concealed or not?

    So let's say your out doing your business while OC'ing. You get a phone call from friends to meet at a prohibited place. So you unload and place your firearm in a sock or small padded case inside a jacket pocket, pants pocket etc. Would that be interpreted as concealed, or carrying in a prohibited place??? I would say no but what do you think?
    Or what about carrying in a prohibited place with a firearm in a sock case, in a larger holster to accommodate the extra size?
    Last edited by Motofixxer; 11-13-2010 at 10:19 PM.
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    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
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    Concealed? I say no because it's not immediately accessible. As far as "prohibited place" it depends upon the place. An unloaded and encased firearm is prohibited in a govt. building just as much as an loaded and non-cased gun.
    A. Gold

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    As long as the "case" is designed for a firearm, then you are good to go. You could buy a sock for a long gun, then cut it down. It is still designed for a firearm. And NO part of the handgun can be showing at all. Also, there must be some way to fasten it as I read the law. You could sew on some velcro to satisfy that.

    167.31
    (b) "Encased" means enclosed in a case that is expressly made for the purpose of containing a firearm and that is completely zipped, snapped, buckled, tied or otherwise fastened with no part of the firearm exposed.

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    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smithman View Post
    As long as the "case" is designed for a firearm, then you are good to go. You could buy a sock for a long gun, then cut it down. It is still designed for a firearm. And NO part of the handgun can be showing at all. Also, there must be some way to fasten it as I read the law. You could sew on some velcro to satisfy that.

    167.31
    (b) "Encased" means enclosed in a case that is expressly made for the purpose of containing a firearm and that is completely zipped, snapped, buckled, tied or otherwise fastened with no part of the firearm exposed.
    Velcro? That's fancy! Maybe just tie a string around the end.
    A. Gold

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    I have a Ruger LCP that came with a zipper case. The gun in the gun case will easily fit in my pants pocket.

    Would this be legal to carry in this manor if it is unloaded and the magazine is in another pocket?

    This is a definite tag for more info!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Passive101 View Post
    I have a Ruger LCP that came with a zipper case. The gun in the gun case will easily fit in my pants pocket.

    Would this be legal to carry in this manor if it is unloaded and the magazine is in another pocket?

    This is a definite tag for more info!
    Who cares where the mag is? (So long as it is not IN the gun.)

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    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mlutz View Post
    Who cares where the mag is? (So long as it is not IN the gun.)
    Why care if the mag is in the gun if you're not in a vehicle, state park or school zone? Nothing says an encased gun has to be unloaded in every circumstance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shotgun View Post
    Why care if the mag is in the gun if you're not in a vehicle, state park or school zone? Nothing says an encased gun has to be unloaded in every circumstance.
    I did a bit of reading in my stat. book, I'll do some more. Unless "D.H" shows up. (I hope he does. )

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    Quote Originally Posted by Motofixxer View Post
    So let's say your out doing your business while OC'ing. You get a phone call from friends to meet at a prohibited place. So you unload and place your firearm in a sock or small padded case inside a jacket pocket, pants pocket etc. Would that be interpreted as concealed, or carrying in a prohibited place??? I would say no but what do you think?
    Or what about carrying in a prohibited place with a firearm in a sock case, in a larger holster to accommodate the extra size?
    I guess I would want to know in what prohibited place you are meeting. That might help.
    Last edited by Mlutz; 11-14-2010 at 05:07 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shotgun View Post
    Why care if the mag is in the gun if you're not in a vehicle, state park or school zone? Nothing says an encased gun has to be unloaded in every circumstance.
    He asked about carrying in his pocket, loaded would make it a concealed weapon.

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    Loaded or unloaded. In a pocket would be concealed.

    As for the prohibited place. Some DA would just love to tack on another charge. (Except perhaps DA Fox)

    JMHO

    JJC

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    The elements for a violation of s. 941.23 are: 1) a dangerous weapon is on the defendant’s person or within reach; 2) the defendant is aware of the weapon’s presence; and 3) the weapon is hidden. State v. Keith, 175 Wis. 2d 75, 498 N.W.2d 865 (Ct. App. 1993).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    The elements for a violation of s. 941.23 are: 1) a dangerous weapon is on the defendant’s person or within reach; 2) the defendant is aware of the weapon’s presence; and 3) the weapon is hidden. State v. Keith, 175 Wis. 2d 75, 498 N.W.2d 865 (Ct. App. 1993).
    Right, that's the black letter law, and carrying an encased hidden gun is unlawful in Wisconsin - and moreover, the person would be further guilty of possessing the gun in the prohibite place.

    What is with so many Wiscosin posters thinking ther is some pony at the bottom of the Section 941.23 manure pile?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Right, that's the black letter law, and carrying an encased hidden gun is unlawful in Wisconsin - and moreover, the person would be further guilty of possessing the gun in the prohibite place.

    What is with so many Wiscosin posters thinking ther is some pony at the bottom of the Section 941.23 manure pile?
    There is a snake-oil salesman here selling just that.

    Search in the WI subforum on the term "unenforceable" and see who uses it and in what context. A circuit court judge wrote an opinion that it is unconstitutional in light of the recent SCOTUS decisions and the salesman would have that overturn all of Wisconsin gun law - the manure pile, revealing his magic pony.

    JUST carry
    Last edited by Doug Huffman; 11-14-2010 at 10:41 AM.

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    Regular Member Big Dipper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    What is with so many Wiscosin posters thinking ther is some pony at the bottom of the Section 941.23 manure pile?
    Perhaps it's because we all do it so often and see others doing it.

    From the house to the car in a case (hidden).

    From the car to the gun range in a case (hidden).

    From the car to the boat to go waterfowl hunting in a case (hidden).

  16. #16
    Regular Member Motofixxer's Avatar
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    I stated prohibited place to be general, to stimulate conversation on the whole topic. There was no particular place I had in mind. But I was thinking about hypothetical situations that could come up.
    So to avoid the concealed violation one would have to have it open and visible, like in a sock case, in hand or in a holster large enough to hold extra size of firearm and sock case. For example in a school zone, one would be legally transporting? Or in your vehicle, also? It's openly visible not hidden. But is encased and unloaded.
    Last edited by Motofixxer; 11-14-2010 at 02:09 PM.
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  17. #17
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    someone simply has to say it; just horsing around ofcourse, is that a gun in your pocket or are you glad to see me?

    glad to see you back poking around motofixxer.

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    A handgun on the seat of a car that was indiscernible from ordinary observation by a person outside, and within the immediate vicinity, of the vehicle was hidden from view for purposes of determining whether the gun was a concealed weapon under this section. State v. Walls, 190 Wis. 2d 65, 526 N.W.2d 765 (Ct. App. 1994).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Right, that's the black letter law, and carrying an encased hidden gun is unlawful in Wisconsin - and moreover, the person would be further guilty of possessing the gun in the prohibite place.

    What is with so many Wiscosin posters thinking ther is some pony at the bottom of the Section 941.23 manure pile?
    What is the defenition of hidden?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    A handgun on the seat of a car that was indiscernible from ordinary observation by a person outside, and within the immediate vicinity, of the vehicle was hidden from view for purposes of determining whether the gun was a concealed weapon under this section. State v. Walls, 190 Wis. 2d 65, 526 N.W.2d 765 (Ct. App. 1994).
    Y'all can ride the painted pony as far as you want on the road paved with hypotheticals.

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    Last edited by Doug Huffman; 11-14-2010 at 02:45 PM.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    A handgun on the seat of a car that was indiscernible from ordinary observation by a person outside, and within the immediate vicinity, of the vehicle was hidden from view for purposes of determining whether the gun was a concealed weapon under this section. State v. Walls, 190 Wis. 2d 65, 526 N.W.2d 765 (Ct. App. 1994).
    I understand but, for example, allegedly an OC'er we all know (and love) had their case on their passenger seat when she was removed at gunpoint from their vehicle but the DA stated the officers had no RAS or PC to search the vehicle. If this ruling was truly 'enforceable' (just for you Doug) then I believe it would of been used as support for that case, instead, the whole case was dropped.

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    Regular Member Plankton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    A handgun on the seat of a car that was indiscernible from ordinary observation by a person outside, and within the immediate vicinity, of the vehicle was hidden from view for purposes of determining whether the gun was a concealed weapon under this section. State v. Walls, 190 Wis. 2d 65, 526 N.W.2d 765 (Ct. App. 1994).
    How and where in your vehicle do you transport your gun, legally, Doug?
    Liberty or death. We're sorry, there are no other options available at this time..........
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plankton View Post
    How and where in your vehicle do you transport your gun, legally, Doug?
    In its NIB case, with the magazine removed and in the case, in the spare-tire well of my compact VW Jetta Wagen to private property.

    See http://www.vimeo.com/6115265 The Fork in Wisconsin Gun Laws, on-line for 15 months with eight views this week and nearly 900 total.

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    Last edited by Doug Huffman; 11-15-2010 at 09:39 AM.

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    And don't forget

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    The elements for a violation of s. 941.23 are: 1) a dangerous weapon is on the defendant’s person or within reach; 2) the defendant is aware of the weapon’s presence; and 3) the weapon is hidden. State v. Keith, 175 Wis. 2d 75, 498 N.W.2d 865 (Ct. App. 1993).
    It matters not whether the "dangerous weapon" is loaded or not.

    939.22 Words and phrases defined. In chs. 939 to 948 and 951, the following words and phrases have the designated meanings unless the context of a specific section manifestly requires a different construction or the word or phrase is defined in s. 948.01 for purposes of ch. 948:
    .....

    (10) “Dangerous weapon” means any firearm, whether loaded or unloaded; any device designed as a weapon and capable of producing death or great bodily harm; any ligature or other instrumentality used on the throat, neck, nose, or mouth of another person to impede, partially or completely, breathing or circulation of blood; any electric weapon, as defined in s. 941.295 (4); or any other device or instrumentality which, in the manner it is used or intended to be used, is calculated or likely to produce death or great bodily harm.

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    Good! Thanks for reading the devil in the details.

    JUST carry

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