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jacket issue - cc to oc with a permit

nova

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nova - regardless of what you call your handgun permit / license or weapons permit (yeah threw that one in there just to turn some screws) you are still subject to the laws of the state you are in - regardless of what state issued your permit (assuming there is reciprocity of course.) If someone moved here from FL and obtained a VA permit but still wants to refer to it as a a CWP, who cares. It is their responsibility to know the laws and limitations of VA - remember that thing we call self-responsibility? If you take your VA permit to visit FL are you saying you can not carry a stun gun or billie because your VA permit doesn't have the word "weapon" on it? I think not. And I think you know this. So let's stop splitting hairs and scolding people over "what it says" and focus on what it means and the jurisdictional boundaries. Being helpful and educational is one thing but I see people cross that line all the time with their muscle flexing look what I know syndrome.

First, welcome to the site, Jim!

Second, the reason I made the comment about the CHP is because this thread is in the Virginia forum and was about Virginia's permit.
 

fully_armed_biker

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First of all...people come out here seeking advice...letting people continue using incorrect acronymns or terminology helps nobody. There's a big difference between correcting someone and saying "It's a CHP in VA, you moron..." Secondly...people expect us to be somewhat of experts on the subject matter...and in the same vane as I wouldn't trust the advice of an auto mechanic that didn't use the correct terminology, I wouldn't trust the advice of someone on a gun forum that didn't use the correct terminology. Thirdly....I don't see someone asking if some thread on a different forum answered their question, as "chastising" them...especially since we've had trolls coming out here posting the same question over and over in several different forums, as recently as a few months ago.
 

SouthernBoy

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First of all...people come out here seeking advice...letting people continue using incorrect acronymns or terminology helps nobody. There's a big difference between correcting someone and saying "It's a CHP in VA, you moron..." Secondly...people expect us to be somewhat of experts on the subject matter...and in the same vane as I wouldn't trust the advice of an auto mechanic that didn't use the correct terminology, I wouldn't trust the advice of someone on a gun forum that didn't use the correct terminology. Thirdly....I don't see someone asking if some thread on a different forum answered their question, as "chastising" them...especially since we've had trolls coming out here posting the same question over and over in several different forums, as recently as a few months ago.

Exactly. Also, there is this.

Words have meaning, convey information, and give rise to both accuracy and inaccuracy. Take for example, the term, assault rifle (or weapon). Probably the majority of the general public believes that anyone can just go to a gun show, pay their money, and walk out with an "assault rifle/weapon". Now any gun enthusiast knows this is absolutely not true. Not only are assault rifles not that easy to come by, they can be very expensive and you have to go through quite a bit to own one. You ain't about to just pick up one in a gun show sale. However, even a fair amount of gun people believe that "assault rifle" is something that is easy to obtain, not that expensive, and no more difficult to get than a handgun or shotgun. This is because they have been brainwashed into believing what the national press, the government, and the anti-gun groups have been pushing since1989. That a semi-auto "ugly" military styled rifle is an assault rifle when in fact, this is complete nonsense and a bold faced lie.

BTW, welcome aboard glock-40.
 
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nova

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You ain't a bout to just pick up one in a gun show sale.
I wish we could. I can already buy at age 18 a firearm that can shoot 9 .33 caliber projectiles with one pull of the trigger, why can't I buy something that shoots the same number of projectiles with one pull of the trigger but one at a time instead of 9 at once?

I'm referring to shotguns of course, which are probably the most common firearm owned in the US.
 

Grapeshot

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I knew all of that was coming.

My name is Jim from NOVA and a relatively long time gun owner but I discovered this forum a few months ago and have been lurking since there is a lot of valuable information here and good people it seems. Unfortunately I see people from time to time both here and on other forums that are ever so anal about correcting others about their licensing acronyms.

nova - regardless of what you call your handgun permit / license or weapons permit (yeah threw that one in there just to turn some screws) you are still subject to the laws of the state you are in - regardless of what state issued your permit (assuming there is reciprocity of course.) If someone moved here from FL and obtained a VA permit but still wants to refer to it as a a CWP, who cares. It is their responsibility to know the laws and limitations of VA - remember that thing we call self-responsibility? If you take your VA permit to visit FL are you saying you can not carry a stun gun or billie because your VA permit doesn't have the word "weapon" on it? I think not. And I think you know this. So let's stop splitting hairs and scolding people over "what it says" and focus on what it means and the jurisdictional boundaries. Being helpful and educational is one thing but I see people cross that line all the time with their muscle flexing look what I know syndrome.

Mr Shooter - you offer a lot of valuable advise to members here. Maybe my posts were a bit snide but that was unintentional. Just calling it the way I see it. I don't see a need to chastise a guy cause he posted on two different forums. Not everyone subscribes to all forums and he was obviously looking to a different community for input. I am not policing since it wasn't I that brought his other post to the spotlight. Thanks for all of your knowledgeable input you provide on the threads.

How long have you lived in Virginia? I would guess a recent arrival. I'm always surprised when someone from within the pro-gun VA.community say the weren't aware of OCDO and and/or are not a member of VCDL. then proceeds to belabor us for how we conduct ourselves.

What the Virginia permit is called (it IS a CHP) and has absolutely nothing to do with how we proceed in other states - ah let me see, Yep, we follow their laws....but our permit is still called a Concealed Handgun Permit. Reciprocity, the recognition of our CHP or other states' laws have no effect on the Code of Virginia § 18.2-308.

Come to a local meet-n-greet. I'm sure you would be welcomed and people would enjoy meeting you.
 

Grapeshot

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Not a so hypothetical question

For glock-40 , Jim from NoVa and others interested in chiming in.

Let's presume that you have a Virginia Concealed Handgun Permit and you travel to a state that issues Concealed Weapons Permits and has reciprocity with Virginia. This state requires you to have a permit to conceal certain weapons in addition to handguns - that's why it is a CWP.

If in the course of visiting this state, you conceal one of these additional weapons requiring a permit, are you legal or have you broken the law. Remember your Virginia permit is for carrying a handgun concealed, not a ballistic knife or spring loaded baton.

I would be interested in your answer and with a cite to support it.
 
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nova

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For glock-40 , Jim from NoVa and others interested in chiming in.

Let's presume that you have a Virginia Concealed Handgun Permit and you travel to a state that issues Concealed Weapons Permits and has reciprocity with Virginia. This state requires you to have a permit to conceal certain weapons in addition to handguns - that's why it is a CWP.

If in the course of visiting this state, you conceal one of these additional weapons requiring a permit, are you legal or have you broken the law. Remember your Virginia permit is for carrying a handgun concealed, not a ballistic knife or spring loaded baton.

I would be interested in your answer and with a cite to support it.

P. A valid concealed handgun or concealed weapon permit or license issued by another state shall authorize the holder of such permit or license who is at least 21 years of age to carry a concealed handgun in the Commonwealth, provided (i) the issuing authority provides the means for instantaneous verification of the validity of all such permits or licenses issued within that state, accessible 24 hours a day, and (ii) except for the age of the permit or license holder and the type of weapon authorized to be carried, the requirements and qualifications of that state's law are adequate to prevent possession of a permit or license by persons who would be denied a permit in the Commonwealth under this section. The Superintendent of State Police shall (a) in consultation with the Office of the Attorney General determine whether states meet the requirements and qualifications of this section, (b) maintain a registry of such states on the Virginia Criminal Information Network (VCIN), and (c) make the registry available to law-enforcement officers for investigative purposes. The Superintendent of the State Police, in consultation with the Attorney General, may also enter into agreements for reciprocal recognition with any state qualifying for recognition under this subsection.

edit: I see you were asking about other states. I provided the example of someone with a CWP carrying in VA, where it is only good as a CHP while in the commonwealth.
 
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Grapeshot

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For glock-40 , Jim from NoVa and others interested in chiming in.

Let's presume that you have a Virginia Concealed Handgun Permit and you travel to a state that issues Concealed Weapons Permits and has reciprocity with Virginia. This state requires you to have a permit to conceal certain weapons in addition to handguns - that's why it is a CWP.

If in the course of visiting this state, you conceal one of these additional weapons requiring a permit, are you legal or have you broken the law. Remember your Virginia permit is for carrying a handgun concealed, not a ballistic knife or spring loaded baton.

I would be interested in your answer and with a cite to support it.

P. A valid concealed handgun or concealed weapon permit or license issued by another state shall authorize the holder of such permit or license who is at least 21 years of age to carry a concealed handgun in the Commonwealth, provided (i) the issuing authority provides the means for instantaneous verification of the validity of all such permits or licenses issued within that state, accessible 24 hours a day, and (ii) except for the age of the permit or license holder and the type of weapon authorized to be carried, the requirements and qualifications of that state's law are adequate to prevent possession of a permit or license by persons who would be denied a permit in the Commonwealth under this section. The Superintendent of State Police shall (a) in consultation with the Office of the Attorney General determine whether states meet the requirements and qualifications of this section, (b) maintain a registry of such states on the Virginia Criminal Information Network (VCIN), and (c) make the registry available to law-enforcement officers for investigative purposes. The Superintendent of the State Police, in consultation with the Attorney General, may also enter into agreements for reciprocal recognition with any state qualifying for recognition under this subsection.

edit: I see you were asking about other states. I provided the example of someone with a CWP carrying in VA, where it is only good as a CHP while in the commonwealth.

Oh, I understand you and concur. The devil's in the details though when you look at this from the other perspective though - as I asked the question.

The state with the lower allowed standard (CHP) will limit the permitted visitor with the CWP. The quandary is will the state with a more diversified weapon selection (CWP) allow someone with a permit specifically stating "handgun" to enjoy increased legal options or not?
 

TFred

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Oh, I understand you and concur. The devil's in the details though when you look at this from the other perspective though - as I asked the question.

The state with the lower allowed standard (CHP) will limit the permitted visitor with the CWP. The quandary is will the state with a more diversified weapon selection (CWP) allow someone with a permit specifically stating "handgun" to enjoy increased legal options or not?
I doubt you are going to find any cases to cite on this, although not being a lawyer, I don't have easy access to such information anyway, however, applying a common sense approach, here are my thoughts:

I would conclude that the "more restricted" Virginia permit (handguns only) is irrelevant as long as there are not any additional requirements or qualifications imposed by that other state to carry non-handgun weapons.

In other words... reciprocity agreements are usually based on the existence of similar procedures to ensure that the permit holder is not a "prohibited person". As far as I know, the specific training requirements are not evaluated for reciprocity agreements, and when you think about it, that would be tough. Imagine the training required for a Utah permit if you had to be formally trained on each of the 30-something state laws.

But the threshold for "not being prohibited" is much more uniform across the board. Once you are not prohibited, it's up to you to learn and comply with what that means in any state you may wish to visit and in which you wish to carry using your home state permit.

I guess to sum up, a permit, and especially a permit from another state, generally ensures you are not prohibited. Once you establish that fact, each state grants their own set of P4P that you are then allowed to exercise.

Of course common sense only goes so far... but that's my thoughts.

TFred
 

skidmark

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Reciprocity means your permit is valid as long as their permit is valid, and to the same extent. That's the point - your Va permit is for a handgun only. And as for things other than handguns, since Va law prohibits them his CWP is only good for handguns here in Va.

stay safe.
 

TFred

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Lets make this even easier.

Virginia law prohibits drivers from texting while driving. If you visit another state without a similar law, does the fact that you are driving on a Virginia Operator's License make texting while driving illegal in that state? Obviously the answer is no.

The OL qualifies you to drive, but you must obey the local laws.

TFred
 
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