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Thread: Winter Carry & Ammunition v. Summer Carry & Ammunition

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Winter Carry & Ammunition v. Summer Carry & Ammunition

    Quote Originally Posted by cbpeck View Post
    I never worry about a little drizzle on my carry guns, but if it is truly raining I typically CC.

    I think another important question this time of year is what type of ammo people carry. Some people fear that hollow points will penetrate poorly through winter clothing so they switch to round nose or fmj rounds. Its something to discuss in another thread if it hasn't been done already.
    I carry 124 gr Gold Dot 9mm. I figure the round is fast enough, it will penetrate the clothing.

    I thought I would start this thread, it was a good idea...
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    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
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    I'm close to the 1year anniversary of the purchase of my sidearm, so I am still not as knowledgeable as I should be. I honestly hadn't put any extra thought into my ammo other than that my JHP have more knockdown than my FMJs. I usually save the FMJ for target shooting since they're much cheaper. Currently I'm using some Federal JHP. Sadly I can't remember the specifics on them and I don't have the box anymore.

    Should I switch during winter or do Hollow Points work well in Summer and Winter?
    Last edited by xxx.jakk.xxx; 11-15-2010 at 08:58 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxx.jakk.xxx View Post
    I'm close to the 1year anniversary of the purchase of my sidearm, so I am still not as knowledgeable as I should be. I honestly hadn't put any extra thought into my ammo other than that my JHP have more knockdown than my FMJs. I usually save the FMJ for target shooting since they're much cheaper. Currently I'm using some Federal JHP. Sadly I can't remember the specifics on them and I don't have the box anymore.

    Should I switch during winter or do Hollow Points work well in Summer and Winter?
    Well I do not worry about it much. The theory is that hollow points will start expanding before it reaches th body in heavy clothing, especially in down filled coats, and there will not be enough penetration to stop the attacker. Personally I don't think it is a big enough issue to have different ammo for winter than I do for summer.
    Last edited by joeroket; 11-15-2010 at 09:18 PM.
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    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeroket View Post
    Well I do not worry about it much. The theory is that hollow points will start expanding before it reaches th body in heavy clothing, especially in down filled coats. Personally I don't think it is a big enough issue to have different ammo for winter than I do for summer.
    It seems that the clothing would start the expansion early causing the projectile to just make a larger entrance wound in the target. I don't think that the clothing would stop it, so it would still do the job, just a bit messier. That's one of my fears of kevlar if I ever have to wear it. The kevlar starts the expansion of the bullet early causing the already expanded bullet to enter you causing more trauma than having a not-expanded bullet.

    ... At least that's what I have heard. I have no true ballistic training that would back this theory up.
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    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    IMO it's a good idea to carry a spare mag. For this purpose, I carry hollowpoints and FMJ. With a .45, I'm really not worried about over penetration.
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    Kevlar has an easier time stopping JHP's vs FMJ's. The wider the bullet, the more fibers it will cover thus be stopped easier. The way Kevlar works is by spreading the impact over as much of an area as possible. Interestingly pretty much any legal rifle hunting round here will penetrate a kevlar vest. I laugh every time I hear about so called "cop killer" bullets.
    Last edited by Jayd1981; 11-15-2010 at 09:32 PM.

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    Regular Member massivedesign's Avatar
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    Winter, Spring, Summer and Fall 230gr +P Federal HST's... 14 of em in the gun and 13 more on my hip... 24/7.

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    I have Speer Good Dot 124 gr jhp for my 9 mil and Double Tap 200gr jhp for my .45. Both are bonded bullets, the jacket does not separate from the bullet. I carry the same defense ammo year round and I always carry 2 extra mags. I usually carry the 1911. I am not worried about under penetration with a 200 gr bullet moving at 1125 fps.
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    I have yet to change since buying my Federal 147gr Hydra Shok hollow points for my 9mm. I don't foresee any ammo issues if i need to use them. They'll penetrate, but the prayer is I never need to find out.

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    Regular Member SnarlyWino's Avatar
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    I am sure there will be argument about this, but I actually load every third round of my 9mm with fmj so that I will have a more penetrating round in cases of having to penatrate light cover. This also helps a box of jhp last a little longer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SnarlyWino View Post
    I am sure there will be argument about this, but I actually load every third round of my 9mm with fmj so that I will have a more penetrating round in cases of having to penatrate light cover. This also helps a box of jhp last a little longer.

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    WOW ...... This actually makes sense. I've never thought of mixing my rounds, ever!

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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Hornady

    This is what I carry year round, and will solve the clothing problem. I will only use FMJ at the range (cheap), and in the war zone (Geneva Convention).
    http://www.hornady.com/store/9mm-Lug...itical-Defense
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    Quote Originally Posted by SnarlyWino View Post
    I am sure there will be argument about this, but I actually load every third round of my 9mm with fmj so that I will have a more penetrating round in cases of having to penatrate light cover. This also helps a box of jhp last a little longer.

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    The last 3 or so of my magazines I have started to put in FMJ. I figure if the BG is still advancing then they are needed.
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    To each their own; I will not use fmj for defense, I don't want the possibility (strong probability) of over penetration. I know, I know, jhps can over penetrate too but much more likely with fmjs. Don't want it to go through the perp and hit an innocent. Not arguing, just sayin'.
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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    I was told a long time ago by an old timer, that you should rotate your ammo out, in humid conditions, unless your primer is sealed. That should be the only worry in Washington with the always lingering mist, and soaked conditions.

    I seriously doubt a down coat is going to stop a 9mm hollow point. I dont think you have to worry about it becoming the common winter kevlar for your ordinary everyday thug.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Summer carry = frangible in 1st mag .45acp; 2 extra mags Corbon DPX.

    Winter carry = all DPX
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    Regular Member unknownsailor's Avatar
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    I wouldn't worry about ammo that much, other than how much it costs to replace it as I practice with my carry piece.
    Carry as much gun as you can control, use a quality hollow point, and practice so you can get good hits when it counts, and the rest will take care of itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by unknownsailor View Post
    I wouldn't worry about ammo that much, other than how much it costs to replace it as I practice with my carry piece.
    Carry as much gun as you can control, use a quality hollow point, and practice so you can get good hits when it counts, and the rest will take care of itself.

    +100
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    Regular Member Leatherneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    This is what I carry year round, and will solve the clothing problem. I will only use FMJ at the range (cheap), and in the war zone (Geneva Convention).
    http://www.hornady.com/store/9mm-Lug...itical-Defense
    That's some good info! I've been meaning to get another box soon. May have to go with these.

    One question I have:
    In the video he says that they are designed for short barrel type carry pieces. There shouldn't be a problem using these in the standard 4.5" or 5" barrel, right?
    Last edited by Leatherneck; 11-16-2010 at 12:49 AM.

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    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    I am currently carrying a mixture of Hornady 10mm 200 grain XTP JHP & Black Talon 10MM 200GR SXT in my 3 carry mags.


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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    If we're only talking winter clothes and not body armor, then don't worry about JHP penetration through winter clothing. It may be thick but just remember, insulation is mostly air. GDHP's and Golden Saber's are capable of penetrating several "Volumes" of wet phone books so they'll be more than effective on an average human just wearing winter clothing. There's no need to carry a spare mag loaded with FMJ's, carry FMJ's, or "Dutch Load" your mags (alternate FMJ.HP's) just because it's winter.

    Police Departments don't so why would you feel the necessity?

    Just load up with a good defensive round that shoots well in your pistol and then hope you never have to use it.

    If you really want to make sure that you "End the Fight", just practice regularly shooting "Two Center or Mass followed by Two CNS (head shot)" Do this enough so it's instinctive and "penetration" is of little or no concern.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    If we're only talking winter clothes and not body armor, then don't worry about JHP penetration through winter clothing. It may be thick but just remember, insulation is mostly air. GDHP's and Golden Saber's are capable of penetrating several "Volumes" of wet phone books so they'll be more than effective on an average human just wearing winter clothing. There's no need to carry a spare mag loaded with FMJ's, carry FMJ's, or "Dutch Load" your mags (alternate FMJ.HP's) just because it's winter.

    Police Departments don't so why would you feel the necessity?

    Just load up with a good defensive round that shoots well in your pistol and then hope you never have to use it.

    If you really want to make sure that you "End the Fight", just practice regularly shooting "Two Center or Mass followed by Two CNS (head shot)" Do this enough so it's instinctive and "penetration" is of little or no concern.
    In my experience, most LEA buy based on price, not effectiveness and their stop rate is generally acknowledged to not be that good.

    Many (most?) hollow points do not reliably/consistently open up when the hollow portion is filled with clothing fiber. Notable exceptions to this are Corbon DPX and Federal HST.

    Yes, hitting your target is first and foremost with whatever you have - we're talking about fine tuning that
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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    In my experience, most LEA buy based on price, not effectiveness and their stop rate is generally acknowledged to not be that good.

    Many (most?) hollow points do not reliably/consistently open up when the hollow portion is filled with clothing fiber. Notable exceptions to this are Corbon DPX and Federal HST.

    Yes, hitting your target is first and foremost with whatever you have - we're talking about fine tuning that
    Actually, out here on the "Great Western Frontier" the police departments actually rely on testing ammo. Some tests have been carried out on local ranges and found HP's to perform quite well for the purpose they are intended.

    As recent news events can attest, Police Ammo is VERY effective, even to the point of being LETHAL.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Actually, out here on the "Great Western Frontier" the police departments actually rely on testing ammo. Some tests have been carried out on local ranges and found HP's to perform quite well for the purpose they are intended.

    As recent news events can attest, Police Ammo is VERY effective, even to the point of being LETHAL.
    I was born and raised in one of the "frontier states" and mean you no slight.

    Never said LEA did not test ammo. In the selection process, I can assure you that a majority of departments do not have the benefit of the best, most effective ammunition. Too many times the 'this is good enough" wins out because cost IS a major factor - the same economic reasons that departments do not train more than they do. Most departments spend a minimum necessary on ammo - officers desirous of more range time do so at their own expense regularly. The money adds up and compromises are made in all areas.

    Any caliber or loading can be lethal, even the lowly .22 short. Granted that there are "elite" units that are supplied with match grade, performance munitions selected for specific purposes.
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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leatherneck View Post
    That's some good info! I've been meaning to get another box soon. May have to go with these.

    One question I have:
    In the video he says that they are designed for short barrel type carry pieces. There shouldn't be a problem using these in the standard 4.5" or 5" barrel, right?
    I'd call 4.5-5" short, especially compared to my Hi-Point Carbine .
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