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Thread: Deer Private Propertry No CPL

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    Deer Private Propertry No CPL

    My friend went deer hunting, told me he was carrying his handgun and I know he has no CPL. When I told him he couldn't do that, he said that it was on his friends private property, so I told him I would come on here and find out. I told him that IIRC, he would have to be the property owner to do that. What do you guys think? He was OC

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Depends. Was he OC or CC.

    To CC it would have to be his property that he owned or leased.

    To OC I think he would be fine.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    OC.

    Thanks, That's what I thought, I just wanted to double check.

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    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    Wait a minute, I am a little confused here. If I allow my guests or friends and or family to CC on my property its not legal, that makes no damned sense. It is my property I should be the one making the laws or rules as to who can carry and how they carry as long as it is ON my property. Can anyone clarify this.


    Quote Originally Posted by autosurgeon View Post
    Depends. Was he OC or CC.

    To CC it would have to be his property that he owned or leased.

    To OC I think he would be fine.
    Last edited by Bailenforcer; 11-16-2010 at 02:25 PM.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  5. #5
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    You as a property owner cannot give another person permission to CC as silly as that sounds. The only way a person can CC anywhere other than your own property is the little blue card.

    You can however give permission to OC even in most PFZ's
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    3.* Do I need a concealed pistol permit to carry my pistols while walking through the woods near my cabin in Michigan? If not, are there any restrictions on how or where the gun is carried?*

    MCL 750.227*allows you to carry a pistol concealed or not if you are in your own home or on your own property.* If you do not own the land, no license is needed to carry a pistol as long as it is exposed.* However, should a person cover the pistol during inclement weather with a jacket or coat or get into a vehicle, the pistol would be concealed, and the carrier would place himself in jeopardy unless he possessed a concealed pistol permit.* Per Attorney General's opinion #3158 dated February 14, 1945, a holster, in plain view, is not considered concealed. Department of Natural Resources regulations require a person to have a valid Michigan hunting license if in an area inhabited by wildlife, while in possession of a firearm.*

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    So as long as he is OC, with his deer license, he should be fine. To CC, he would have to own the land. His friend cannot give permission to CC.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    That is correct Stainless!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Regular Member Coded-Dude's Avatar
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    so the question begs: if it truly is private property, who would be there to enforce such law.

    *statement made assuming trespassing is prohibited unless otherwise authorized by the property owner*
    If guns cause crime.....mine must be defective.

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    Regular Member Onnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coded-Dude View Post
    so the question begs: if it truly is private property, who would be there to enforce such law.

    *statement made assuming trespassing is prohibited unless otherwise authorized by the property owner*
    DNR thats who

    1993, I was walking out of the woods on our own property of 40 acres in the UP and I was dab smack in the middle of our property. 10 miles from the main road, 20 miles from town. I walked to OUR road where my brother-in-law picked me up in his truck. As it was common for us all to take the round out of the chamber but leave the mag in the rifle and throw it behind the sit, something I have dont 100's of times and did so again on this day. As the vehicle begain to move, a dnr vehicle came around the curve and stopped up, lights flashing and all that jazz. He wanted to see our tags. looked in the back of the bed of the truck, seen empty rifle cases and asked where was our rifles...

    long story short.........3 of us got tickets for carrying a loaded rifle in a vehicle....

    please remember this was on private property, 20 miles from town and 10 miles in the woods on a private built road.

    I took it to court on the private property issue in 1994...........I lost I paid around 100.00 in fines
    Last edited by Onnie; 11-16-2010 at 05:59 PM.
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    Regular Member CharleyMarbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onnie View Post
    DNR thats who

    1993, I was walking out of the woods on our own property of 40 acres in the UP and I was dab smack in the middle of our property. 10 miles from the main road, 20 miles from town. I walked to OUR road where my brother-in-law picked me up in his truck. As it was common for us all to take the round out of the chamber but leave the mag in the rifle and throw it behind the sit, something I have dont 100's of times and did so again on this day. As the vehicle begain to move, a dnr vehicle came around the curve and stopped up, lights flashing and all that jazz. He wanted to see our tags. looked in the back of the bed of the truck, seen empty rifle cases and asked where was our rifles...

    long story short.........3 of us got tickets for carrying a loaded rifle in a vehicle....

    please remember this was on private property, 20 miles from town and 10 miles in the woods on a private built road.

    I took it to court on the private property issue in 1994...........I lost I paid around 100.00 in fines
    I would think you could have counter sued for trespass as well as possible 4th amendment rights violations the DNR had no right to be on your property with out a proper warrant as I read the laws??? Can anyone with more knowladge than I please correct my interpitation of the law if needed ???

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    Quote Originally Posted by CharleyMarbles View Post
    I would think you could have counter sued for trespass as well as possible 4th amendment rights violations the DNR had no right to be on your property with out a proper warrant as I read the laws??? Can anyone with more knowladge than I please correct my interpitation of the law if needed ???
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_fields_doctrine

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    Regular Member Coded-Dude's Avatar
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    [edit] so your land is not private property...only your house that resides on that land?
    Last edited by Coded-Dude; 11-16-2010 at 06:31 PM.
    If guns cause crime.....mine must be defective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coded-Dude View Post
    [edit] so your land is not private property...only your house that resides on that land?
    A search warrant is required if there is a reasonable expectation of privacy. No expectation of privacy, no search warrant required. Open fields doctrine basically says that outside the immediate area around a dwelling, a search warrant is not required.

    Trespass is still trespass. Law Enforcement may trespass for a variety reasons but may not trespass for no reason. Trespass and needing a search warrant are two seperate animals.

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    Regular Member CharleyMarbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warrior1978 View Post
    Thats the biggest pile of HS I have heard in my life. I could see that working if say they have from a distance spotted illeagle flora on your property, How ever the funny thing about that is THEY WILL ALLWAYS GET A WARRENT in such cases before they storm the compound so to speak. My issue is not so much about that as it is that they were APERENTLY Patroling the family's PRIVATE LAND instead of doing the job we pay them for and patroling public lands.

    Now just to play devils advocate here is it possible they were trying to hide out and got cought and this was a face saveing measure? I mean if I were inclined to try and skip out on my responsibilitys I would NOT be hidding on public land where one of my fellow agents or even a supervisor might stumble on me???Just a thought but I still think your land is one of your "effects" for the purposes of the law ??? Just my two chunks of coppe.... errr.. copper COLORED alluminum LOL

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    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    That last line is scary. On my property surrounded by the Mackinac State forest so I am surrounded by wildlife, so what do I need a hunting license to carry on my property. It seems the legislatures in this country deliberately confuse laws to steal our birthright sometimes called Constitutional rights.


    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    3.* Department of Natural Resources regulations require a person to have a valid Michigan hunting license if in an area inhabited by wildlife, while in possession of a firearm.*
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

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    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    Get a land patent I guess. This is getting ridiculous we have no damned rights any more...


    Quote Originally Posted by Onnie View Post
    DNR thats who

    1993, I was walking out of the woods on our own property of 40 acres in the UP and I was dab smack in the middle of our property. 10 miles from the main road, 20 miles from town. I walked to OUR road where my brother-in-law picked me up in his truck. As it was common for us all to take the round out of the chamber but leave the mag in the rifle and throw it behind the sit, something I have dont 100's of times and did so again on this day. As the vehicle begain to move, a dnr vehicle came around the curve and stopped up, lights flashing and all that jazz. He wanted to see our tags. looked in the back of the bed of the truck, seen empty rifle cases and asked where was our rifles...

    long story short.........3 of us got tickets for carrying a loaded rifle in a vehicle....

    please remember this was on private property, 20 miles from town and 10 miles in the woods on a private built road.

    I took it to court on the private property issue in 1994...........I lost I paid around 100.00 in fines
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bailenforcer View Post
    That last line is scary. On my property surrounded by the Mackinac State forest so I am surrounded by wildlife, so what do I need a hunting license to carry on my property. It seems the legislatures in this country deliberately confuse laws to steal our birthright sometimes called Constitutional rights.
    Now that CPL holders can legally take feral swine on sight, I wonder if that gets us around that clause. Thoughts?

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    Regular Member Onnie's Avatar
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    If I remember right, its back nearly 20 years ago and my memory is not as sharp as I would like it to be

    as i recall the explination DNR has the right to ask anyone hunting or supected of hunting be it private or public lands to see their tag

    the guns came to play when he seen the empty cases. at that point he had reasonable cause to search the vehicle

    the reason he was on the land in the first place was to inspect the cabin and camp to ensure all our deer were tagged, we did not invite him on the land and there was no violations in camp. he just happen to come upon us on his way out
    When Guns are OUTLAWED, Ill be an OUTLAW
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    Regular Member CharleyMarbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onnie View Post
    If I remember right, its back nearly 20 years ago and my memory is not as sharp as I would like it to be

    as i recall the explination DNR has the right to ask anyone hunting or supected of hunting be it private or public lands to see their tag

    the guns came to play when he seen the empty cases. at that point he had reasonable cause to search the vehicle

    the reason he was on the land in the first place was to inspect the cabin and camp to ensure all our deer were tagged, we did not invite him on the land and there was no violations in camp. he just happen to come upon us on his way out
    SO IMHO just a clear overreach of athority ????

  21. #21
    Regular Member Onnie's Avatar
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    Dont know all i remember he came on the property on his own to check on a tags and a camp deer permit, so maybe that permit gave him permission to be there......but one way or another, he was there and they court said it was legal! I loose
    When Guns are OUTLAWED, Ill be an OUTLAW
    American Tactical Imports C45 45 AP
    S&W sigma 40 Cal
    Bersa 380 Thunder Plus
    Hi point C9 9mm
    Chiappa 1911-22 Semi-Auto .22 LR

    Im not a lawyer, but I did play a Klingon once at Universal Studios

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    I disagree that the DNR over reached.

    There is NO loophole in the law for loaded long gun carry in a car on private property.

    And the fact that you had hunting licenses gave him permission to check you. Perhaps reading the agreement you sign when getting a hunting licence would be a good idea?

    I don't agree that the law on loaded long arms should apply on private property.. but it does so blaming the DNR for enforcing a law on the books is silly. They didn't make the law they just are charged with enforcing it.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    Now that CPL holders can legally take feral swine on sight, I wonder if that gets us around that clause. Thoughts?
    Get a small game license, and you'll surely be covered year round.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T Vance View Post
    Get a small game license, and you'll surely be covered year round.
    The fact that we as CPL holders can hunt Feral Swine year round anywhere in the state negates the need for any other license to be in areas frequented by wildlife. IMOP
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  25. #25
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onnie View Post
    Dont know all i remember he came on the property on his own to check on a tags and a camp deer permit, so maybe that permit gave him permission to be there......but one way or another, he was there and they court said it was legal! I loose
    Seems to me, he was out to make his quota. I don't see why he couldn't have just let you off with a warning. I'd understand the tickets, IF you and the others had a history of violations, but, on your own land even? Geez, tax collectors with guns is what I'd call the DNR cops.
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