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Thread: Need help finding quotes to support an OC discussion

  1. #1
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    Need help finding quotes to support an OC discussion

    I've been having a on & off conversation with a gent on another board who, while accepting of OC, sees it as "foolish" and other such. He doesn't care if anyone else OC's, it's just not for him or those he associates with. I'm actually trying to get his active support for an OC campaign here in TX.

    Recently he stated "As I have talked to people over the past year or so, those who are knowledgeable about guns and tactics and self defense usually laugh at OC."

    I don't have a line to any who are "knowledgeable about guns and tactics and self defense", at least not with enough notoriety to suit the discussion. I'm hoping that y'all might point me in a direction where I can get some quotes from people matching that description.

    Please move if this isn't the best forum.

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    You pretty much have to stress the deterrence effect of OC if debating tactics. A few other positives come to mind such as you have an easier draw and can carry a bigger, more effective sidearm with less hassle. Many CCers carry the popular .380 caliber pocket pistols, so they are giving up effectiveness in exchange for conceability. I've seen someone put it this way "CC gives you surprise, but OC gives you deterrence, effectiveness and education".

    Perhaps its a wash, but I prefer OC for its educational benefits which CC can never provide and as such I believe that OC ultimately furthers gun rights, which itself is a good thing in that it has an overall downward pressure on crime and positive influence on liberty.
    Last edited by OC4me; 11-17-2010 at 06:07 AM.

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    If OC is not right for this person, I recommend supporting his choice, especially if he still chooses to carry, just concealed.

    Your respect for his constitutional choice is the best way to engender his respect for the choice to OC. If he respects that choice, he may come to politically support it. If he doesn't respect your choice, he won't ever politically support it.

    Don't worry about a single individual becoming an advocate for OC. The sum total of your dealings with others will, over time, earn many converts, if you are always mature, civil, respectful, and rational about the choices people make about how and whether to carry.

    I'll leave it to others to share with you the best words on OC v. CC or NC. I will just urge you to always present those words with the utmost respect for the carry choice of the person to whom you are speaking.

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    Cliff you might find a few useful things here--->http://louisianacarry.org/oc/

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    I respect his preferred method of CC, it's his choice to make, and I'm not going to try to convince him change it. I'd like his help in our efforts because he's well connected in some circles where we need an advocate.

    My main quest at this time is to find quotes from or get in touch with some of the recognised experts in the self defense field who support OC. I can use this to counter the opinion that his "experts" have made regarding OC.

    The LA site looks like a good resource to have bookmarked. It's going to take more than an hour or so to give it a good read.

    ETA: The first 3 topic links I chose at the LA Carry site lead me to GlockTalk; with 2 messages that I'd have to join their site in order to read the threads and one message saying that the thread couldn't be found. I don't have a problem per se about signing up at GlockTalk, but being directed to another site without warning just seems a bit unprofessional....
    Last edited by CliffH; 11-17-2010 at 05:17 PM.

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    Why OC is better?

    -more comfortable
    -no worries about "printing" so larger handguns are easy.
    -no need to ask permission
    -tactical advantage: faster and simpler draw.
    Last edited by Daylen; 11-17-2010 at 06:32 PM.

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    I always tell folks who say this, does the wolf go after the deer with antlers or the one without?
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 11-17-2010 at 09:37 PM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    http://www.usacarry.com/forums/open-...-argument.html

    Slam full of em.

    My probability of being a victim of a crime, violent or otherwise, is completely unchanged by the fact that I have hidden beneath my shirt the means to defend myself.

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    Gentlefolk

    While I appreciate all your input, I have been arguing in support of OC myself for almost 10 years now. I know the most prevalent arguments. There's no need for you to use your time and this fine site's bandwidth answering a question I didn't ask.

    I have run across one gent who's presented that his "experts" laugh at the thought of OC. This is the first time I've ever heard of any "experts" laughing at OC. While I'm sure there may be some who do, there must be one or more who don't scoff at the idea of OC. Hence my previous request:

    My main quest at this time is to find quotes from or get in touch with some of the recognized experts in the self defense field who support OC.

    If anyone has some leads in that direction I'd sincerely appreciate hearing from you.

    As for the post that calynn linked to; that is a very well thought out & written post. Thank you for the link. I envy the skills of the person who wrote it.
    Last edited by CliffH; 11-18-2010 at 01:09 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CliffH View Post
    Gentlefolk

    While I appreciate all your input, I have been arguing in support of OC myself for almost 10 years now. I know the most prevalent arguments. There's no need for you to use your time and this fine site's bandwidth answering a question I didn't ask.

    I have run across one gent who's presented that his "experts" laugh at the thought of OC. This is the first time I've ever heard of any "experts" laughing at OC. While I'm sure there may be some who do, there must be one or more who don't scoff at the idea of OC. Hence my previous request:

    My main quest at this time is to find quotes from or get in touch with some of the recognized experts in the self defense field who support OC.

    If anyone has some leads in that direction I'd sincerely appreciate hearing from you.

    As for the post that calynn linked to; that is a very well thought out & written post. Thank you for the link. I envy the skills of the person who wrote it.
    Odds are you won't find a "recognized expert" that is supportive of OC. Most "recognized experts" are such because they make money through books or training. CC is very conducive to their market OC usually is not. Why I think most of us have posted arguments as we have is that no one has heard of a "recognized expert" that is for OC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daylen View Post
    Odds are you won't find a "recognized expert" that is supportive of OC. Most "recognized experts" are such because they make money through books or training. CC is very conducive to their market OC usually is not. Why I think most of us have posted arguments as we have is that no one has heard of a "recognized expert" that is for OC.
    Good point. OCers tend to be independent thinkers, not following set leaders or subscribing to set experts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CliffH View Post
    I've been having a on & off conversation with a gent on another board who, while accepting of OC, sees it as "foolish" and other such. He doesn't care if anyone else OC's, it's just not for him or those he associates with. I'm actually trying to get his active support for an OC campaign here in TX.
    You have to know when to fish and when to cut bait, CliffH. I wouldn't waste a single second on him.

    Recently he stated "As I have talked to people over the past year or so, those who are knowledgeable about guns and tactics and self defense usually laugh at OC."
    Send him here. Plenty of us know plenty about guns and tactics and self defense. You don't see us laughing at OC.

    Or ask him why LEO's OC rather than CC.

    I don't have a line to any who are "knowledgeable about guns and tactics and self defense"...
    (ahem...)

    ...at least not with enough notoriety to suit the discussion.
    I've only been called "notorious" on two occasions. But I'm sure I could fake it...

    I'm hoping that y'all might point me in a direction where I can get some quotes from people matching that description.
    Look at the signature blocks of the members here. They're full of quotes.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Good point. OCers tend to be independent thinkers, not following set leaders or subscribing to set experts.
    Should have figured we'd all be fundamentally the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    You have to know when to fish and when to cut bait, CliffH. I wouldn't waste a single second on him.

    Our discussion wasn't/isn't a big deal, just didn't want to leave it without responding to his claims

    Send him here. Plenty of us know plenty about guns and tactics and self defense. You don't see us laughing at OC.

    Or ask him why LEO's OC rather than CC.

    He's actually a LEO himself....

    (ahem...)

    My bad - I didn't mean that to sound as it did

    I've only been called "notorious" on two occasions. But I'm sure I could fake it...

    LOL
    Thanks to all who've taken the time to respond. Guess this hunt's over for now....

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    Quote Originally Posted by CliffH View Post
    Should have figured we'd all be fundamentally the same.
    Like a herd of cats...

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    Quote Originally Posted by CliffH View Post
    I've been having a on & off conversation with a gent on another board who, while accepting of OC, sees it as "foolish" and other such. He doesn't care if anyone else OC's, it's just not for him or those he associates with. I'm actually trying to get his active support for an OC campaign here in TX.

    Recently he stated "As I have talked to people over the past year or so, those who are knowledgeable about guns and tactics and self defense usually laugh at OC."

    I don't have a line to any who are "knowledgeable about guns and tactics and self defense", at least not with enough notoriety to suit the discussion. I'm hoping that y'all might point me in a direction where I can get some quotes from people matching that description.

    Please move if this isn't the best forum.

    Allow me to play devil's advocate for a second.

    Carrying any firearm without training IS "foolish".

    That said, remind that individual: It's in the Constitution - RTKBA SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. So you're exercising your Constitutional rights. Rights in plural one might ask? Certainly. It's been put well on this board: A right not exercised is a right lost....or one that the government will promptly attempt to take away as they see it as a threat to their control.

    You're exercising your 2A by carrying and you're also exercising 1A by carrying which makes a very loud statement that you will not tolerate a violation of your 2A rights. Is that a loose interpretation? Sure, but if I'm carrying a bloodied doll that looks like a baby outside an abortion clinic am I not also exercising my 1A?

    Lastly, an armed populous can still defend itself against a tyrannical government. Ever hear of the American Revolution? The British tried to disarm Americans and it sparked a war. If we allow the government at any level to infringe on our 2A (most every one of them has at some level) then we will assuredly become enslaved by that government. (we're already headed down this road folks)
    Last edited by heresyourdipstickjimmy; 11-21-2010 at 07:15 PM.

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    carrying a firearm without any skill or training (training yourself counts) might be foolish but, having the right to be foolish is important. I'm not sure I have ever heard of anyone ever being that foolish. Everyone I know that is enthusiastic enough to openly carry arms seems to be enthusiastic enough to practice at the range regularly.

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    ...., having the right to be foolish is important.
    That's something that a lot of lib's seem to forget; instead they want to take a persons' right to make that decision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daylen View Post
    carrying a firearm without any skill or training (training yourself counts) might be foolish but, having the right to be foolish is important. I'm not sure I have ever heard of anyone ever being that foolish. Everyone I know that is enthusiastic enough to openly carry arms seems to be enthusiastic enough to practice at the range regularly.
    I'm not picking at you on this, just trying to point out something funny with what you posted. I like the post and it's t-shirt worthy by the way.

    Oh yeah? Show me where in the Constitution it says "you have the right to be foolish". It's not there, so that means the Fed can take it away! (couldn't resist, so thanks for helping me there)
    Last edited by heresyourdipstickjimmy; 11-22-2010 at 04:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by heresyourdipstickjimmy View Post
    I'm not picking at you on this, just trying to point out something funny with what you posted. I like the post and it's t-shirt worthy by the way.

    Oh yeah? Show me where in the Constitution it says "you have the right to be foolish". It's not there, so that means the Fed can take it away! (couldn't resist, so thanks for helping me there)
    It is included in the "pursuit of happyness". Also, the constitution is clear that not all rights are listed, and not being listed does not mean it is a right that can be infringed upon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Let us change this a wee bit:

    I've been having a on & off conversation with a gent on another board who, while accepting of RKBA, sees it as "foolish" and other such. He doesn't care if anyone else owns/carries a gun, it's just not for him or those he associates with. I'm actually trying to get his active support for an RKBA campaign here in TX.

    Any questions?
    His choice is a valid one. I'd let him be.

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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I always tell folks who say this, does the wolf go after the deer with antlers or the one without?

    I like that!

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    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    Marine General James Mattis,

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    Confucious say: Man who doesnt carry gun, may end up being carried by others.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by CliffH View Post
    My main quest at this time is to find quotes from or get in touch with some of the recognized experts in the self defense field who support OC.
    Some of the fine folks here have decades of experience with firearms of all types, with OCing, CCing, the military, law enforcement, and self-defense in general.

    If you want "recognized experts," they're here. Listen to 'em, as their arguments are as sound as anyone else's out there.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    By that criteria I'm an "expert" also.

    You may have misinterpreted my definition of "expert". I was looking for quotes from those who have been recognized by the gun community in general as being someone who knows what they're talking about, preferably someone who has had their work published in books and/or magazines.

    That's not to say I don't recognize that folks here know what they're talking about. For some arguments you simply need more creditable backup than "I got it from a guy at www........".

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