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Thread: Enraged store owner flips out on skateboarder, and calls police

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    Enraged store owner flips out on skateboarder, and calls police


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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Is this real?

    Who took the video? Seems to me that the guy verbally and physically assaulted the skateboarder and illegally detained him.

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    Apart from the screaming and touching the thug, he's absolutely 100% right. Unfortunately, his having touched the sleaze might make things work out badly from him.

    If the dirtbag had been trying to evade a citizen's arrest, depending on the jurisdiction, the citizen could've lawfully restrained him, but the video does not show that there was an evasion or that the touching was restraint.

    I hope the skateboarder is convicted of malicious mischief (to which he stupidly admits, on the video, having repeatedly committed).

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    Who took the video? Seems to me that the guy verbally and physically assaulted the skateboarder and illegally detained him.
    Based on the last few minutes, I'd say it was a friend of the thug who took the video.

    I don't know the local laws, but the store owner was almost surely allowed to detain the criminal. He witnessed the commission of a crime: malicious mischief.

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Based on the last few minutes, I'd say it was a friend of the thug who took the video.

    I don't know the local laws, but the store owner was almost surely allowed to detain the criminal. He witnessed the commission of a crime: malicious mischief.
    I would hope that you would agree with me that the actions of the store owner were "over the top" and that he acted foolishly. I suspect that we haven't heard the last of this issue ... If I were the kid, I'd file charges.

    Bottom line, it looks like this was a setup to get the store owner to do exactly what he did.

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    Given the others Person age, just as much could have been Accomplished less the Yelling.
    Last edited by aadvark; 11-17-2010 at 12:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aadvark View Post
    Given the others Person age, just as much could have been Accomplished less the Yelling.
    The store owner probably felt that if he didn't come across so aggressive, that the skater would have just walked away before the police arrived. Not saying that he didn't go over the top here, but that was probably why he acted the way he did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    I would hope that you would agree with me that the actions of the store owner were "over the top" and that he acted foolishly...
    I do. I tried to communicate that in my first post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1124 View Post
    The store owner probably felt that if he didn't come across so aggressive, that the skater would have just walked away before the police arrived. Not saying that he didn't go over the top here, but that was probably why he acted the way he did.
    I agree with that assessment completely. The yelling was not unlawful. The touching might be. However, I see two things helping the store owner out in court. One, he could make the claim (possibly successfully, possibly not) that the thug was starting to move away, and the touching was by way of restraint. Two, the camera seems to indicate touching, but the store owner could claim that he came close, out of frustration, to putting his hands on the thug, but restrained himself. This last claim is supported by the thug not saying anything along the lines of, "Don't touch me," or, "Stop hitting me."

    The thug deserves a short time in jail, a fine, and a criminal record. The store owner deserves a brush with the criminal justice system, a close call with a conviction, and a stern warning from the judge that citizen's arrest is OK, but don't let it get that close to vigilantism again.

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    So sick of this punks damaging private business and the cops could care less in most cases(around here) and honestly if they are damaging your property you should be able to hold the little mattress stains still the cops come. These little turds deserve every hit they get from damaging peoples private property.
    Last edited by zack991; 11-17-2010 at 05:43 PM.

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    I didn't see him touch the skater, although he was definitely in what could safely be called an "aggressive stance".

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    I definitely feel that the store owner was right, but too big of a mealy mouth tool to not deserve a severe beating. Right idea, terrible execution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1124 View Post
    I definitely feel that the store owner was right, but too big of a mealy mouth tool...
    +1

    Right idea, terrible execution.
    Well, he was certainly a tool.
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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    He had no business touching that kid. The kid would have been justified if he had fought back and decked him in the face, the kid was just standing there then the old guy goes all psycho and grabs him. Unnecessary force plain and simple. I woulda clocked em if I were the kid. Though, I don't go around vandalizing property, so I really wouldn't have to worry about it in the first place. lol

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    Sorry but if I was that kid and that storekeeper was touching me and screaming in my face.. Mr. Skateboard would have gotten real close and personal with his noggin.

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    Were I the boarder, I would have gladly paid for the bush, taken the ride, wrap whatever... but the police would have found the shop owner on the ground restrained with me telling the cop: "This guy assaulted me, we have it on camera, but he wants to file a report about his plant."

    I can empathize with both parties, but.. he shouldn't have been messing with the plant.

    I do find it a bit odd the comment about the skate park.. around here, they are free and public... it's like being told to go to the gun range for OCing...
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    We should go to an appropriate place to use our firearms and not destroy private property to satisfy our need to use them.

    On the touching: the video seems to indicate that the store owner may have put his hands on the thug, but does not clearly show such. The thug does not react as though he has been struck or grabbed in any way.

    If I am the store owner, my defense to any such charge is that I believed the thug was trying to evade the citizen's arrest and move away. I got really close and strongly considered grabbing or hitting him. He seemed to resign himself to the arrest, so I thought better of it and did not touch him.

    I don't think that it could be proven in court beyond a reasonable doubt that the store owner assaulted the thug.

    One more thing: I don't know the law where this happened, but, in Alabama, appropriate force may be used to effect a citizen's arrest. (The flip-side is that there is no law against resisting citizen's arrest and appropriate force may be used to resist under the legal protection of self-defense.)

    The store owner let his justifiable anger cause him to go a bit over-the-top, but I don't think he broke any laws. The thug, on the other hand, stupidly admits, on camera, to having broken the law several times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbinator View Post
    Were I the boarder, I would have gladly paid for the bush, taken the ride, wrap whatever... but the police would have found the shop owner on the ground restrained with me telling the cop: "This guy assaulted me, we have it on camera, but he wants to file a report about his plant."

    I can empathize with both parties, but.. he shouldn't have been messing with the plant.

    I do find it a bit odd the comment about the skate park.. around here, they are free and public... it's like being told to go to the gun range for OCing...
    IMO walking around with your skateboard outside of a skatepark= OCing

    Riding your skateboard on private property = discharging

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    On the touching: the video seems to indicate that the store owner may have put his hands on the thug, but does not clearly show such. The thug does not react as though he has been struck or grabbed in any way.
    It's quite obvious that the enraged lunatic grabbed the kid and shoved him. This is just a desperate attempt to defend the indefensible simply because you happen to agree that the kid should have been arrested. Despite the fact that the store owner's actions were unjustified.

    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    If I am the store owner, my defense to any such charge is that I believed the thug was trying to evade the citizen's arrest and move away. I got really close and strongly considered grabbing or hitting him. He seemed to resign himself to the arrest, so I thought better of it and did not touch him.
    A defense that would be easily destroyed as any reasonable person can plainly see that the kid did not move until after the store owner grabbed him, at which point the kid clearly struggles with the store owner.

    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I don't think that it could be proven in court beyond a reasonable doubt that the store owner assaulted the thug.
    Well, good thing you're not a lawyer then, eh? That was a clear case of assault, only those wearing blinders whom are predisposed to side with the store owner would say otherwise. A predisposition clearly evidenced by the fact you continue to call the kid a 'thug' despite the fact that he did not act violently.
    Last edited by Jack House; 11-18-2010 at 11:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1124 View Post
    IMO walking around with your skateboard outside of a skatepark= OCing

    Riding your skateboard on private property = discharging
    Damaging someone's private property in the process = vandelism.

    Then again, that's always been vandelism!
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Damaging someone's private property in the process = vandelism.

    Then again, that's always been vandelism!
    The store owner called it "criminal mischief." I don't know what jurisdiction he is in, and whether the crime is specifically criminal mischief, malicious mischief, or vandalism. In any event, it is likely a misdemeanor.

    The thug demonstrates a lack of respect for the law and for other people's property. He thinks that the only consequence for his actions is to pay for the bush when he gets caught. He doesn't understand that he not only civilly injured this man (several times without being caught), he has damaged society, which is why there are criminal penalties in addition to any civil restitution.

    I hope a judge makes it really hurt for this guy. That is the only way a 20-year-old is going to learn. Clearly, he doesn't care about others around him or society at large. He cares only about his immediate desires (like a child). The only way to correct an adult who thinks like this is to convince him that his antisocial behavior will hurt him himself. He doesn't care about anyone else.

    He is a thug.

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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    He had no business touching that kid. The kid would have been justified if he had fought back and decked him in the face, the kid was just standing there then the old guy goes all psycho and grabs him. Unnecessary force plain and simple. I woulda clocked em if I were the kid. Though, I don't go around vandalizing property, so I really wouldn't have to worry about it in the first place. lol
    Quote Originally Posted by JollyLBK View Post
    Sorry but if I was that kid and that storekeeper was touching me and screaming in my face.. Mr. Skateboard would have gotten real close and personal with his noggin.
    Agreed, the store owner laid hands on the skateboarder. Someone (non-LEO) lays hands on you, you got the right to self-defense. That is a well settled and recognized right on this forum. I'm rather amazed (No, I'm not) that a few, like KBC, somehow cannot "see" the contact by the store owner.

    Seems to me that this kind of event, if real, is a reasonably good example of how a gun in the mix could have made things MUCH worse.

    The interaction/confrontation was intense, problematic and overly emotional (the older man). Probably some laws violated on both sides.

    Yet no major injuries or trauma resulted.

    Throw a gun in this mix, say with the 20-year old CCing his GLOCK or store owner OCing his Kimber and .... it conceivably would have exploded into a violent ending.

    Situation like this . . . better off with no pistolas . . .that much is fer sure . . .

    I gotta sympathize with the store owner--those skateboarders, as a group, are pretty much trouble-makers on public streets and, often, private property.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HankT View Post
    Agreed, the store owner laid hands on the skateboarder. Someone (non-LEO) lays hands on you, you got the right to self-defense. That is a well settled and recognized right on this forum. I'm rather amazed (No, I'm not) that a few, like KBC, somehow cannot "see" the contact by the store owner.

    Seems to me that this kind of event, if real, is a reasonably good example of how a gun in the mix could have made things MUCH worse.

    The interaction/confrontation was intense, problematic and overly emotional (the older man). Probably some laws violated on both sides.

    Yet no major injuries or trauma resulted.

    Throw a gun in this mix, say with the 20-year old CCing his GLOCK or store owner OCing his Kimber and .... it conceivably would have exploded into a violent ending.

    Situation like this . . . better off with no pistolas . . .that much is fer sure . . .

    I gotta sympathize with the store owner--those skateboarders, as a group, are pretty much trouble-makers on public streets and, often, private property.
    Most states authorize the use of force when the individual has committed a crime in your presence, or on your property. Non LEO security and loss prevention use force and detain people on a regular basis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1124 View Post
    Most states authorize the use of force when the individual has committed a crime in your presence, or on your property. Non LEO security and loss prevention use force and detain people on a regular basis.
    That, and the video strongly indicates that the store owner put his hands on the thug. However, "there isn't enough video evidence to overrule the call on the field." In legal speak, there is "reasonable doubt."

    The only convincing evidence of a crime on the video is the foolish admission by thug to having removed the bush on several occasions. Criminals is so dumb.

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    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    I went through this a couple times.. What friggin bush is he talking about the the skater damaged?

    I can't say that myself in the skaters position would have stayed around to take that.

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