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Thread: OT got a ticket need advise

  1. #1
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    OT got a ticket need advise

    Ok so anyone who knows me knows that i am a huge dog lover and every animal i have is a rescue, Now with that being said on Nov 5th 4 tickets were issued for 4 dogs not having licensing. $250.00x 4. So the weird part is i didnt recieve them for a week after they were written and i was home on the 5th all day long and yet no one ever made contact and the only 2 dogs that were in view of anything were my shephards in the front yard.

    So what can i do to fight this? i didnt even get a chance to sign them or tell the guy to get bent.....

    My opinion on this matter is that they are just trying to get more money out of people.

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    I'd take it to court. You have the right to face your accuser.

    That's just me. This is not good advice. IANAL

    Ask GoGoDawgs. He's been getting out of tickets 9 times over now in all seriousness.

  3. #3
    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
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    You should probably get them licensed and then go to court with papers showing you did so. I know that with things like driving without a license and insurance, as long as you get them before the court date they'll usually drop the tickets.
    Last edited by xxx.jakk.xxx; 11-17-2010 at 10:57 PM.
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    Regular Member Chris.R.Anderson's Avatar
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    Move somewhere that doesn't require you to license your pet? :P j/k
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    I don't know if it will work for this, but for traffic tickets a common trick is to request a List of State Witnesses on the deadline. You'll need to have proof that you filed the request by the deadline (FedEx receipt or a court receipt). The court only has about 5 working days to deliver the list to you and generally they don't have the time or resources.

    When you get to court, you present the judge with the evidence that you requested the list by the deadline and tell him that the State did not provide the evidence. Ask to have the witness list suppressed. IF he asks why, tell him that since you didn't know who the witnesses were, you weren't able to prepare a defense or arrange witnesses to challenge their evidence. DO NOT SAY ANYTHING UNLESS ASKED. The judge should then suppress the list.

    Now, the State can not present any witness from their witness list. Since there are no witnesses, ask for an immediate dismissal. You HAVE to have a plan B in case the judge ignores your argument. As a bonus, if you have subpeoned the officer and they're there, they generally get real pissed. I watched the State's Radar Technician get his ass chewed by the judge once because he shot his mouth off when the judge the dismissed.

    I've gotten out of a couple of traffic tickets by doing this. I'd use it as ONE of several strategies to beat the ticket.

    YMMV. I'm not a attorney, and I don't play one on TV.
    Last edited by New Daddy; 11-17-2010 at 11:25 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    NO...

    The officer is paid to be there and they will be 99.99% of the time. And when the officer shows you will lose. I have never seen a case where the officer shows and the defendant wins, never. This is bad advice.

    Your best bet is to request discovery and find an error in the case, a technicality. They must provide a written statement that meets certain rules in the IRLJ. Many times they fail to meet the criteria. While I am not advised on animal cases, I have beat 9 traffic tickets in 25 years, including 2 this summer.

    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    Yes, definitely subpoena the officer who issued the infraction. If he/she doesn't show up in court, it gets thrown out.

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.63.060:

    (f) A statement that at any hearing to contest the determination the state has the burden of proving, by a preponderance of the evidence, that the infraction was committed; and that the person may subpoena witnesses including the officer who issued the notice of infraction;

    NOTE: I know we are mixing traffic infractions in here, but what Washington did was take the procedure for issuing/serving a traffic infraction and applied those rules to minor offenses now called civil infractions.
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    Neighbor turn you in? Why else would AC come along and issue a ticket unless the dogs were running loose? Maybe the neighbor called turned you in and they just wrote up the tickets and mailed em to ya.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    NO...

    you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. There are specific IRLJ rules to follow governing suponea of witnesses including how to serve them. Do not give legal advice when you have no clue on the actual IRLJ.

    Quote Originally Posted by New Daddy View Post
    I don't know if it will work for this, but for traffic tickets a common trick is to request a List of State Witnesses on the deadline. You'll need to have proof that you filed the request by the deadline (FedEx receipt or a court receipt). The court only has about 5 working days to deliver the list to you and generally they don't have the time or resources.

    When you get to court, you present the judge with the evidence that you requested the list by the deadline and tell him that the State did provide the evidence. Ask to have the witness list suppressed. IF he asks why, tell him that since you didn't know who the witnesses were, you weren't able to prepare a defense or arrange witnesses to challenge their evidence. DO NOT SAY ANYTHING UNLESS ASKED. The judge should then suppress the list.

    Now, the State can not present any witness from their witness list. Since there are no witnesses, ask for an immediate dismissal. You HAVE to have a plan B in case the judge ignores your argument.

    I've gotten out of a couple of traffic tickets by doing this. I'd use it as ONE of several strategies to beat the ticket.

    YMMV. I'm not a attorney, and I don't play one on TV.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. There are specific IRLJ rules to follow governing suponea of witnesses including how to serve them. Do not give legal advice when you have no clue on the actual IRLJ.
    Ok. I'll call the judge and tell him that he shouldn't have dismissed my tickets and send them a check.

    For speeding tickets, all this is spelled out in the instructions on the back of the ticket.
    Last edited by New Daddy; 11-17-2010 at 11:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nosrac View Post
    Neighbor turn you in? Why else would AC come along and issue a ticket unless the dogs were running loose? Maybe the neighbor called turned you in and they just wrote up the tickets and mailed em to ya.


    maybe so but dont i have to sign them as it just dosnt seem like a legal practice to write someone up and not have them sign it?

  11. #11
    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
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    Not sure what the local penalties and all that are for your area, but I was just browsing through Port Orchard's and found this exact situation. If yours is like ours, you should definitely get them licensed ASAP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Port Orchard - 7.12.110
    Violation – Penalty – Civil infraction.
    Any person violating any provisions of this chapter, unless otherwise identified, is guilty of a civil infraction. The fine for any infraction shall be $40.00 for the first violation, $75.00 for the second infraction committed within one year and $100.00 for the third and subsequent infractions committed within one year. Each and every day or portion thereof, in which an infraction is committed, shall constitute a separate and distinct infraction. (Ord. 1866 § 1, 2002).
    They count EVERYDAY as a single incident, so if you do not have them licensed they may count it against you when you do go to court. Also, here it is free to license Neutered and Spayed animals but $75 per non fixed animal. You should look up your local laws.
    Last edited by xxx.jakk.xxx; 11-17-2010 at 11:32 PM.
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    I don't know if Tacoma is in King County or not, but earlier this month I did read on the internet that they are going house to house throughout the county to see if pets are licensed. If not, you can license them on the spot or I believe it said you had 3 days to get them licensed. This is county wide, I think licensing your pets is just a way for them to make money. They estimated there were something like 400,000 (!) pets in the county not licensed. If they are spayed/neutered the license is $15.00; if not $25.00. At that amount per pet, they stand to make a LOT of money and money is tight in the county. Also, if you have over a certain number of pets, you have to get a kennel license. If I were you, I would check with the county or animal control in Tacoma. Sorry I can't find the article for you, but check with them, I believe they are supposed to give you a chance to license them before they hit you with a fine. I have to renew my dog's license. They were supposed to send me a notice to renew but I never received it, and I just forgot when I got her license. Also, you may want to google King County Animal Control. Hope this helps.
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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    A license. For a farkin' dog. And a $250 fine for not licensing. Running a red light and actually endangering others is <$150.

    O M F G !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    A license. For a farkin' dog. And a $250 fine for not licensing. Running a red light and actually endangering others is <$150.

    O M F G !

    Man u just proved my point its all about greed..........

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    They count EVERYDAY as a single incident, so if you do not have them licensed they may count it against you when you do go to court. Also, here it is free to license Neutered and Spayed animals but $75 per non fixed animal. You should look up your local laws.[/QUOTE]
    No, it is not free!

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    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeak View Post
    No, it is not free!
    I meant in Port Orchard. I had mentioned that I was looking at Port orchard and didn't know how the locals differed in their laws. It's cool though. =p
    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Psalms 23:4

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    I'd listen to gogodawgs. Request discovery and go from there. Where my last ticket was you had to request it atleast 14 days before court if in person, 17 days if by mail. The process will be on the court's website or the clerk should help out. On my last ticket I requested discovery and the prosecuting attorney didn't bother to send me anything back so ticket was dismissed.

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    Thumbs up

    good advice i will try that and see were it goes from there, i want to thank everyone for there input.

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    Regular Member SpyderTattoo's Avatar
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    Hey, weren't you watching your friend's dogs while he was on vacation?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jarhead1055 View Post
    Man u just proved my point its all about greed..........
    I really have nothing constructive to contribute to this thread, but I'm really just in shock over it.

    Although I would be happy to slap the bananas out of whoever came up with a $250 fine for an unlicensed dog for you
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    Have a little more fun while you're at it! Ask for a jury trial,then raise hell when they refuse and violate your 6th/7th amendment depending on if it's classified civil or criminal.

    What constitution?
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    Quote Originally Posted by sultan62 View Post
    Have a little more fun while you're at it! Ask for a jury trial,then raise hell when they refuse and violate your 6th/7th amendment depending on if it's classified civil or criminal.

    What constitution?
    IIRC, those particular protections in the Constitution do not apply to State or local proceedings, only to federal cases. Each State's constitution should have it's own provisions in this regard. In Alabama, it's Section 6, and only "criminal" proceedings require a jury trial.

    IANAL and my be oversimplifying this horribly. If someone with a better knowledge of the law needs to slap me down, have at it.

  23. #23
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    If I am not mistaken you have a gate? How do they know your dogs are licensed or not? A gate gets rid of the implied invitation to your residence?

    Gogo I have some questions for you if you don't mind I'll PM.
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  24. #24
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nosrac View Post
    Neighbor turn you in? Why else would AC come along and issue a ticket unless the dogs were running loose? Maybe the neighbor called turned you in and they just wrote up the tickets and mailed em to ya.
    News Flash

    Cities and Counties struggle to find money due to poor economy!


    That just about sums up all the extra effort on licensing of dogs. For years the statutes have been on the books and relatively unenforced. When the economy went down the "flusher", every bureaucrat started scrambling for sources of cash, probably to insure their survival in the parasitic world of government.

    Dogs are an easy target. How many are left alone during the day in yards or even in houses. All an animal control officer has to do is print out a list of existing licenses and the addresses that they are issued to. They then go out and drive up and down the street looking for that dog in the yard, check the list. If no license they knock and if no answer just mail the "Civil Infraction". When the "low hanging fruit" of the dogs in the yard are "plucked" they just go door to door. Easy job finding dogs because all it usually takes is a doorbell or knock and any dog in the house "fruits out". Dead giveaway. Again a check of the list and a mailed "infraction notice" if not licensed.

    This is easy money and since this revenue is often targeted to the animal control positions it can protect those jobs from layoff. Just like the Motorcycle cops that are like ATM's for Cities, Counties, and the State, these lowly "dog catchers" are just doing their part.

    As for "getting off" on an unlicensed dog ticket? Good luck. Remember, it's only a Civil Infraction and your case may not even be heard in a real court.

    Solution: Cats don't bark and give themselves away. You could also train your dog to use "Stealth Mode".

    Another little factoid on animal licensing and fines. A neutered animal is usually real cheap to license. One with all their "goodies" can cost more than a car or truck to license.
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    I read this to mean I can buy the licenses after the ticket is issued but before the court date and only pay the $25.00

    Am I wrong?

    06.6.060 - Penalty for Violation

    Violation of any of the provisions of section 6.06.010, 6.06.020, 6.06.025 or 6.06.030 of this Chapter shall constitute a civil infraction punishable by a fine in an amount not to exceed $250.00; provided, that if the person presents evidence of a valid license to the Court, the charge shall be dismissed upon payment of court costs in the amount of $25.00. (Ord. 313 ? 4, 2003; Ord. 205 ? 5, 1999; Ord. 149 ? 8, 1997; Ord. 40 ? 3 (part),1996.)

    This is for the city of Lakewood

    I'm wondering if it is the same where Jarhead is located.
    Last edited by Nosrac; 11-18-2010 at 12:10 PM.

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