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Thread: Living Document for Open Carry Laws

  1. #1
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    Living Document for Open Carry Laws

    I have spent some time putting together a simple website to locate the laws concerning Open Carry per area. As Laws frquently change from State level, to County level, all the way down to City level, it is likely to find Laws differ from two neighboring Cities.

    http://opencarry.elementfx.com/index.html

    The website (No official name yet) breaks the Laws down by State, County, and City. I am looking for others to help build the database by submitting the OC laws local to them.

    If you would like to help, please complete the form below, and submit it to me via PM on here. The site has a "changelog" to track additions and alterations to the data stored.

    |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
    || Please fill out the form below completely and entirely.
    || State:
    || County:
    || City:
    ||
    || For each "Law" or "Ordinance", please complete the following fields;
    || **Repeat for multiple Codes**
    ||
    || Code: (Relative Number/Letter)
    || Text: (Body of Code)
    || Source: (Please list the source where this law can be found)
    || *******************
    || Code:
    || Text:
    || Source:
    || *******************
    || Code:
    || Text:
    || Source:
    || *******************
    |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

    I am working on a simple post form so you can make submissions via the site. That should be functional some time today.

  2. #2
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    You can leave Virginia out. There are no laws regarding open carry in our state.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    You can leave Virginia out. There are no laws regarding open carry in our state.
    Beg to differ with you.

    Unfortunately, they are the laws that restrict carry. And at the municipal level they vary widely and egregiously.

    Yes, I know all about preemption. But there are places where the localities can in fact restrict carry - such as my needing a CHP to carry a 21 or greater roiund magazine in Richmond City but not in the surrounding counties.

    stay safe.

  4. #4
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Beg to differ with you.

    Unfortunately, they are the laws that restrict carry. And at the municipal level they vary widely and egregiously.

    Yes, I know all about preemption. But there are places where the localities can in fact restrict carry - such as my needing a CHP to carry a 21 or greater roiund magazine in Richmond City but not in the surrounding counties.

    stay safe.
    Perhaps I should have been more specific because what I apparently conveyed with my post was not what I had meant to convey.

    What I had meant was that Virginia has no laws regarding open carry from the affirmative respect. For example: "You may open carry under blah, blah, blah. (or) You may open carry to blah, blah, blah." I hope this is a better example of what I was trying to tell the gentleman. (did I make any sense with this??)
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    Perhaps I should have been more specific because what I apparently conveyed with my post was not what I had meant to convey.

    What I had meant was that Virginia has no laws regarding open carry from the affirmative respect. For example: "You may open carry under blah, blah, blah. (or) You may open carry to blah, blah, blah." I hope this is a better example of what I was trying to tell the gentleman. (did I make any sense with this??)
    Can you please quote the Laws or the sources where the information can be found? This will help in compiling the information for Virginia. The form for submitting Laws via the website will be complete shortly. I was hoping to have it done yesterday, but things came up preventing the completion.

  6. #6
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfetundra View Post
    Can you please quote the Laws or the sources where the information can be found? This will help in compiling the information for Virginia. The form for submitting Laws via the website will be complete shortly. I was hoping to have it done yesterday, but things came up preventing the completion.
    That's just it. Virginia statute law doesn't tell you what you can do, it defines what one cannot do under law. There are laws that outline and define conditions for concealed carry but not for open carry. This means open carry is the default, or normal, mode of carrying a defensive sidearm and concealed carry is the exceptional mode. You can begin your reading at Virginia Code 18.2-308 for the statute laws and their applications.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    That's just it. Virginia statute law doesn't tell you what you can do, it defines what one cannot do under law.
    That is true. That is the definition of a law. Laws outline what is NOT accepted, not the other way around.

    Princeton.edu defines a law as;
    legal document setting forth rules governing a particular kind of activity; "there is a law against kidnapping"

    What I'm looking for, for example, is this;
    PC 626.9 - Cannot carry "in a place that the person knows, or reasonably should is within 1000 feet of a K-12 school".

    You will not find a law that says;
    PC XXX.X - "All Viginia residents can openly carry a firearm."

    Also, when posting Laws/Sources, please refrain from posting "Virginia Code 18.2-308" for example. I have spent a good deal of time researching my own laws. For your example, I need to look through more than 280 Codes looking for the ones specific to Open Carry. In California, it would be more like PC 171 - 12021. 171 is the first relative code and 12021 is the last. In all actuality, there's only maybe a dozen or so codes specifically relating to Open Carry.

    It takes a great deal of time and effort in creating a single document for the website and updating the site to accept that document. I honestly don't have the time, nor do I want to spend the required time, to look up each code and/or case law for a given area. That is why I'm asking you (anyone reading this) to do that part for me. I will format it for the site, but whoever submits it, needs to hunt down the codes, and quote the source (be it a book, or web link) where the information was located.
    Last edited by wolfetundra; 11-19-2010 at 06:41 PM.

  8. #8
    Regular Member MamaLiberty's Avatar
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    There is not a single word in the Wyoming statutes that even mentions open carry. Only federal laws pertain anywhere in the state. Some cities have tried to limit OC in one fashion or another, but preemption is vigorously applied here and they have not been successful.

    The only real restriction is presumption of the right of those who own private property to allow or disallow any sort of carry they wish. All they can do is ask us to leave.

    I would caution you to have a disclaimer statement urging people to check out the current laws and statutes for themselves before carrying anywhere. You open yourself to some serious liability if people rely on anything at your website, even if the information is completely correct.
    I will not knowingly initiate force. I am a self owner.

    Let the record show that I did not consent to be governed. I did not consent to any constitution. I did not consent to any president. I did not consent to any law except the natural law of "mala en se." I did not consent to the police. Nor any tax. Nor any prohibition of anything. Nor any regulation or licensing of any kind.

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    I dunno. I think OCDO is the living document for open carry laws. Folks here have a wonderful handle on OC law and are the first to note changes in it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MamaLiberty View Post
    Only federal laws pertain anywhere in the state [Wyoming].
    Would you know those Federal Laws by chance? I know there's a few. Though, in CA, it's a little more strict than the Fed Laws so it's pointless to worry about them. Personal Opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by MamaLiberty View Post
    I would caution you to have a disclaimer statement urging people to check out the current laws and statutes for themselves before carrying anywhere. You open yourself to some serious liability if people rely on anything at your website, even if the information is completely correct.
    Duly noted! I added the disclaimer on the main page via java warning. Also set up a "javascript disabled" page as the warning and majority of content is java based. Thank you for that. I planned on adding a disclaimer in the beginning. With all the work, I just spaced on it.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MamaLiberty View Post
    I would caution you to have a disclaimer statement urging people to check out the current laws and statutes for themselves before carrying anywhere. You open yourself to some serious liability if people rely on anything at your website, even if the information is completely correct.
    You mean like these summaries which include links to the state laws?

    No liability issues there.
    Last edited by since9; 11-20-2010 at 09:06 PM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I dunno. I think OCDO is the living document for open carry laws. Folks here have a wonderful handle on OC law and are the first to note changes in it.
    You nor anyone else is in no way required or compelled to use this site. It simply exists. If you choose not to use it, that is entirely your choice. However, it is a lot easier to visit a site where you enter your State/County/City and are provided with a list of Laws governing your specific area than visiting a forum, posting your question, and awaiting a response. I'm not knocking OC org in any way. I love this site. I greatly enjoy all the help and advice I have received here. Unless it is placed elsewhere on the site, I have not seen anything that consists of a list of Laws SPECIFIC to a given State. There are topics that "discuss" laws. There is a document outlining the "general" laws. That is why this site was created.

    Again, the creation of this site does not dictate a requirement to use it. Just like the existence of this site [opencarry.org] does not require you to create a membership and utilize the information provided freely for your use.
    Last edited by wolfetundra; 11-20-2010 at 09:10 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfetundra View Post
    You nor anyone else is in no way required or compelled to use this site. It simply exists. If you choose not to use it, that is entirely your choice. However, it is a lot easier to visit a site where you enter your State/County/City and are provided with a list of Laws governing your specific area than visiting a forum, posting your question, and awaiting a response. I'm not knocking OC org in any way. I love this site. I greatly enjoy all the help and advice I have received here. Unless it is placed elsewhere on the site, I have not seen anything that consists of a list of Laws SPECIFIC to a given State. There are topics that "discuss" laws. There is a document outlining the "general" laws. That is why this site was created.

    Again, the creation of this site does not dictate a requirement to use it. Just like the existence of this site does not require you to create a membership and utilize the information provided freely for your use.
    I would not rely on the currency of your site to keep me out of jail. I can and have relied on this site to do so. Twice now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I would not rely on the currency of your site to keep me out of jail. I can and have relied on this site to do so. Twice now.
    So, if I understand you correctly, you would "rely on the currency" of THIS site to keep you "out of jail"? That first statement makes sense. The implications of the other do not. Everything found online (less originating from a .gov domain) should be taken as hearsay until verified via legal text. Even information found on a .gov domain can be false [typo] or simply outdated. As information "copied" to a website by "man" [or woman] can contain human errors.
    Last edited by wolfetundra; 11-20-2010 at 09:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfetundra View Post
    So, if I understand you correctly, you would "rely on the currency" of THIS site to keep you "out of jail"? That first statement makes sense. The implications of the other do not. Everything found online (less originating from a .gov domain) should be taken as hearsay until verified via legal text. Even information found on a .gov domain can be false [typo] or simply outdated. As information "copied" to a website by "man" [or woman] can contain human errors.
    I rely on the CURRENCY of this site. I check all references. I'd have to check the references on your site, too. I wouldn't trust its CURRENCY.

    Moving on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I rely on the CURRENCY of this site. I check all references. I'd have to check the references on your site, too. I wouldn't trust its CURRENCY.

    Moving on.
    Duly noted. Carry on.

  17. #17
    Regular Member MamaLiberty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfetundra View Post
    Would you know those Federal Laws by chance? I know there's a few. Though, in CA, it's a little more strict than the Fed Laws so it's pointless to worry about them. Personal Opinion.
    The only two we consider much here (in Wyoming) is the prohibition to carry onto "federal property" like the post office, and the various hoops one must jump through to buy a gun from a dealer. Remember that the feds change, alter and mutilate their "laws" frequently, so each person must take responsibility for knowing those laws before they act. And, since the body of these laws is so vast and subject to change, don't count on gun dealers or the police to know what these laws are either!! The geniuses at the BATFE can't even make up their minds whether a shotgun with a pistol grip is a shotgun or something else. Don't take anything for granted, and take even their word for it with a grain of salt.

    There are many thousands of federal "laws," and most people have never heard of many of them. This is serious business, and in the quest to make information helpful, we often oversimplify things or forget parts of it. Bad idea when the BATFE, etc. is involved.

    Duly noted! I added the disclaimer on the main page via java warning. Also set up a "javascript disabled" page as the warning and majority of content is java based. Thank you for that. I planned on adding a disclaimer in the beginning. With all the work, I just spaced on it.
    Good, as long as you realize it's a bandaid and not armor. If someone wants to sue you, even for the most idiotic reasons - and even if the courts wind up agreeing with you - it will cost you a lot of money to defend yourself. Money, time, who knows?

    You still sure you want to do this? Not trying to tell you what to do... just wonder if you've really researched all of the potential hazards and costs.
    Last edited by MamaLiberty; 11-21-2010 at 07:28 AM.
    I will not knowingly initiate force. I am a self owner.

    Let the record show that I did not consent to be governed. I did not consent to any constitution. I did not consent to any president. I did not consent to any law except the natural law of "mala en se." I did not consent to the police. Nor any tax. Nor any prohibition of anything. Nor any regulation or licensing of any kind.

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    Thank you MamaLiberty. I will try to run those down and add them to the site.

    I also fully understand the potential consequences of operating this site. I do honestly thank you for your concern and i welcomely accept any constructive critisizm.

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    The CommonWealth of Virginia has these Three Statutes, that should be noted: 1. 15.2-915.2, Regulating Loaded Rifles or ShotGuns in Motor Vehicles, less the exceptions provided under Paragraph 2, AND 2. 15.2-915.3, concerning FingerPrints for Concealed Handgun Permits, less Renewal Permits, AND 3. 15.2-915.4, Regulating Pnumatic Guns, as defined under 15.2-915.4(E).
    Last edited by aadvark; 11-22-2010 at 12:08 PM.

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