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Please apply for a CCW prior to open carrying

puppy8agun

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2010
Messages
110
Location
Concord, CA
It is important that everyone in CA apply for a CCW prior to open carrying.

If you are lucky and live in a county that issues and get one then great. If you are denied this will have no effect on future applications.

Reason:
You will be much easier to defend against actions if the need shall arise. Keep track of the denial and keep a recorder on you while open carrying. Now is not the time to get in trouble for open carrying.

The new legislative session is quickly approaching. It is anticipated that another bill to ban open carry will be introduced. Right now the projected author is Assemblyman Tom Ammiano and this bill will be a democratic priority for 2011.
 

wewd

Regular Member
Joined
May 5, 2009
Messages
664
Location
Oregon
Tell me again why I should beg permission to carry to tools to defend myself and my family? Because I can't think of any good reason for doing so. Let the tyrants be tyrants; don't acquiesce to their authoritarian demands. I have no interest in bolstering their narcissistic egos or appealing to their vanity. I would tell someone to (discreetly) carry against the law before I told them to beg for a permission slip.
 

bigtoe416

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Messages
1,747
Location
Oregon
+1 to wewd.

I'm not interested in getting permission to exercise a fundamental right. I don't ask the police if I can go to a church or a temple or if I can hand out flyers to people. I'm not interested in asking permission, paying money, taking a class, potentially being subject to a mental evaluation, and having more of my personal information available as a matter of public record (and trusting public employees to correctly redact social security numbers).
 

wrightme

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
5,574
Location
Fallon, Nevada, USA
It makes sense. If the permit is denied (which is just about certain), then if a "no open carry" bill is passed, it is de-facto infringement; since that was your ONLY option at that point. It isn't about asking for permission, it is about positioning for the eventuality of legislative efforts to ban open carry.
 
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Gundude

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
1,691
Location
Sandy Eggo County
So, I'll go down to the Sheriff's office and ask for an application. They will tell me not to bother becuase I don't have good cause. I'll make me some coffee instead.
 
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wrightme

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
5,574
Location
Fallon, Nevada, USA
So, I'll go down to the Sheriff's office and ask for an application. They will tell me not to bother becuase I don't have good cause. I'll make me some coffee instead.
That won't document it though. Fill it out, get the denial, THEN you have documentation. That is the point of this.
 

Gundude

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
1,691
Location
Sandy Eggo County
Reason:
You will be much easier to defend against actions if the need shall arise. Keep track of the denial and keep a recorder on you while open carrying. Now is not the time to get in trouble for open carrying.

This denial document will help defend myself from what actions? Carrying concealed without a permit? Carrying LOC?
I have been UOC'ing for over a year now and haven't had a (e) check. I guess I'm staying out of trouble.
 

mjones

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2008
Messages
976
Location
Prescott, AZ
Small warning about applying with the intention of getting denied.

I can say with absolute certainty that a formal denial will show on an in depth background investigation for a security clearnence.

However...I don't have a clue or not if it would be considered a negative...
 

hgreen

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Messages
470
Location
Centreville, VA
Small warning about applying with the intention of getting denied.

I can say with absolute certainty that a formal denial will show on an in depth background investigation for a security clearnence.

However...I don't have a clue or not if it would be considered a negative...

How stupid will it make those that deny CCWs to citizens look if we get citizens with clearances to apply and be denied?
You are trusted to hold NATIONAL SECURITY SECRETS but can't carry a firearm for self-defense???
 

kwikrnu

Banned
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
1,956
Location
Brentwood, Tennessee
Beg for permission to carry. At least you guys in California can carry without government permission. In Tennessee it is illegal to carry a loaded firearm w/o a permit.

The definition of unloaded is no ammunition in the vicinity of the firearm...
 

coolusername2007

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2009
Messages
1,659
Location
Temecula, California, USA
It is important that everyone in CA apply for a CCW prior to open carrying.

I don't agree with this statement. One should certainly feel free to open carry without first asking for a CCW. The two modes of carry are really quite different as are their respective PC's.

I would not first try to get a drivers license just because I wanted only to walk down the street; one mode of "transport" being heavily regulated while the other mode of transport being the history and heritage of mankind since long before the Republic.

Never ask the government for permission to do something that is not only legal but also an unalienable right.
 

wrightme

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
5,574
Location
Fallon, Nevada, USA
I don't agree with this statement. One should certainly feel free to open carry without first asking for a CCW. The two modes of carry are really quite different as are their respective PC's.

I would not first try to get a drivers license just because I wanted only to walk down the street; one mode of "transport" being heavily regulated while the other mode of transport being the history and heritage of mankind since long before the Republic.

Never ask the government for permission to do something that is not only legal but also an unalienable right.
That isn't the point at all.

If you properly apply for a ccw permit, do you feel that it will actually get approved?


Once you respond to that question honestly, we can discuss WHY it matters, and WHY it isn't a suggestion that you request permission.
 

puppy8agun

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2010
Messages
110
Location
Concord, CA
Legal defenses if you are denied, hold a denial and need defended by a lawyer. You should not pay more than $20 for this.

I was told not to bother but turned it in anyways and asked them to go ahead and process anyways.
 

wewd

Regular Member
Joined
May 5, 2009
Messages
664
Location
Oregon
Never ask the government for permission to do something that is not only legal but also an unalienable right.

While you are correct, there needs to be some philosophical distinction between what is "legal", and what is an "inalienable right". It's not an inalienable right because of some document that a bunch of dead guys signed 200 years ago; it's inalienable because you are the owner of your body and the master of your life, and out of that self-ownership flows the rights to defend that life-force and the body in which it inhabits. Even without that ancient document, you would still be in the moral right to defend yourself and to use the tools that are best suited to that end.

The people calling themselves "the government" have no moral authority over any property that you own, least of all your body. By showing them obeisance, you are giving them the very thing they want the most: which is your tacit acknowledgement of their ownership over you, like a master over his slaves. Asking them for permission to defend your life is antithetical to the very core of the self-ownership ideal. A slave can beg his master to spare his life, which the master will if he deems the slave to be valuable enough; but in the end it is not the slave's choice whether he lives or dies. A free man answers to no master, and begs permission of no one, if his life is valuable enough to be saved.
 

markm

New member
Joined
Mar 7, 2010
Messages
487
Location
, ,
OP, WEWD, and Bigtoe are all corect!

Hello All,

I know it may seem as though I am straddling the fence here, but I am not.

The OP is pushing a tactic in a strategic campaign to defend civil liberties. We have options for carrying weapons. A person who has exhausted all legal options will be granted deference in a court of law (should be granted deference). Proving due diligence can be huge.

We should not have to ask permission for a civil right; however, the courts have ruled that when the state has a compelling need, they may "infringe," ever so slightly, using "strict scrutiny" and "narrowly defined" law on our civil rights. This is a fact that we must live with--it is reality.

A person who proves due diligence and still has his civil rights trammeled, has a much better tactical position while being ejudicated.

The OP has expressed a good tactical action.

A law-abiding, criminal-and-mental record-free person who can't legally conceal, and who can't legally OC, has had his civil liberties unduly restricted by broadly written and broadly interpretted law.

It is patently unConstitutional.

I have had FBI background checks performed on me. I have a TSA ID card. I have a US passport. I have a federal license for operating merchant vessels that carry passengers and dangerous cargoes. Yet a Sherrif has denied me the ability to carry a gun for self defense after my life was threatened. I have proved due diligence and legal status.

What more does a court need to prove that a law restricting my 2A rights does not follow "strict scrutiny"?
markm
 

kwikrnu

Banned
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
1,956
Location
Brentwood, Tennessee
As a legal tactic I understand. For example my handgun permit was suspended w/o a hearing and Tennessee does not allow carry of a loaded handgun w/o a permit. However, in my civil lawsuit the State still says I have no standing. :lol:
I guess I'm going to have to be arrested to show standing.
 
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