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Rep George Lavender will sponsor Texas open carry bill

CliffH

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2010
Messages
36
Location
East Texas
That is true, but you and I know no matter how long and hard the people fight for this and other things, the government would always impose different types of restrictions.

Thatz why i say if we are going always have them, then lets have a few that work for us from time to time.

What you say is about the .gov imposing restrictions is true. I still feel we shouldn't try to impose more.

If restrictions absolutely have to be made, of course it would be nice if they favored something we like. But that would mean that the restrictions wouldn't be what someone else liked. Fair is fair - no restrictions and everyone is happy; except for those who's life revolves around restricting others. There's no pleasing them....
 

protias

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
7,308
Location
SE, WI
I forced myself to read through the first page. I don't see why people think OC is going to hinder "the movement" for other bills.

It is like when someone gets harassed by police and everyone rallies to protest against those officers who were wrong. People still say the citizen should just roll over and do what the police say. With the few instances that have happened here in WI, we've made great strides with the politicians and hopefully, we'll have Constitutional Carry since that was the GOPs position.
 

CrossFire

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2007
Messages
407
Location
Irving, Texas, USA
Personally, I feel that the anti-smoking reg's are wrong. There too it should be up to the property owner to make the decision, not the government.

If we're advocating changes in the laws it's not right for us to ask the government to impose more restrictions on anyone.

I was not advocating. I am against the flagrant over reaches that all levels of governent are taking these days. I was just pointng it out.
 
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TexanInNCBGR

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Nov 9, 2009
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CC v OC

As my handle implies I'm a Texan now living in NC. (Notice I don't say "Former Texan", we're always Texans) After all the recently developing rumors about OC and some improvements in CC laws as well I am wishing I hadn't moved. NC is an open carry state...sorta. We have a common law "Going armed to the terror of the public" which doesn't include open carry of a holstered handgun, but that doesn't stop PD from harassing you. We also have a lot of work to do to get rid of some stupid Jim Crow era gun laws. The GOP now have control of both the house and senate up here for the first time since the 1800s! So I'm writing like crazy to my state legislators to get stuff passed. Luckily there's a lot already in the pipeline waiting to be heard on the floor.

<RANT>
On to the reason I posted, I've never really understood this whole Us vs Them mentality on both sides of the fence for CC and OC. Concealed, Open, whatever...we're all carriers, we're all fighting for the same causes and we need to back each other up. Personally, I'd rather conceal. That's just my opinion, but I'd fight just as hard as you to get Open Carry rights codified.

On CC forums I see bias against OCers "They just don't get it!". On here I see the same against CCers "They just don't get it!" and both think that the other side is the biased one. Come on guys, we need have each other's back. If I was out and about carrying concealed and I saw you OCing, I'd smile and say hi "Thanks for carrying". If a CCer berates you for the OC movement, just try to stay civil and have a dialogue about it, agree to disagree, but agree to support the other's decision to carry the way he wishes. If you are a CCer and you don't like OC, then don't OC! If you are an OCer and you don't like CC, then don't CC! Don't berate the other side for choosing a different method. "Oh but they started it". No. No excuses. We're all on the same side and we need to remember that.
</RANT>

Thanks for reading.
 
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CliffH

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2010
Messages
36
Location
East Texas
So I'm writing like crazy to my state legislators to get stuff passed.
<RANT>
On to the reason I posted, I've never really understood this whole Us vs Them mentality on both sides of the fence for CC and OC. Concealed, Open, whatever...we're all carriers, we're all fighting for the same causes and we need to back each other up. Personally, I'd rather conceal. That's just my opinion, but I'd fight just as hard as you to get Open Carry rights codified.

On CC forums I see bias against OCers "They just don't get it!". On here I see the same against CCers "They just don't get it!" and both think that the other side is the biased one. Come on guys, we need have each other's back. If I was out and about carrying concealed and I saw you OCing, I'd smile and say hi "Thanks for carrying". If a CCer berates you for the OC movement, just try to stay civil and have a dialogue about it, agree to disagree, but agree to support the other's decision to carry the way he wishes. If you are a CCer and you don't like OC, then don't OC! If you are an OCer and you don't like CC, then don't CC! Don't berate the other side for choosing a different method. "Oh but they started it". No. No excuses. We're all on the same side and we need to remember that.
</RANT>

Good luck on getting the laws changed there in NC.

You make good points in your rant. Acceptance of the fact that others are different and have different priorities/preferences etc. is necessary. Not only for getting OC passed, but for all gun issues. As one large group of gun owners supporting each other we'd all have a much better chance of being heard.

We do have to be careful to not make any issue an "us vs them", where it ends up being "gun owners" against anyone else - including the non-gun owners. Making a debate personal can cause the loss of the debate.

I was not advocating. I am against the flagrant over reaches that all levels of governent are taking these days. I was just pointng it out.

I should have made it more clear that my second statement wasn't about any one person advocating for more regulations; I realized you weren't suggesting more regulations.
 

B.D. WALKER

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Messages
56
Location
Houston, Texas
On to the reason I posted, I've never really understood this whole Us vs Them mentality on both sides of the fence for CC and OC. Concealed, Open, whatever...we're all carriers, we're all fighting for the same causes and we need to back each other up. Personally, I'd rather conceal. That's just my opinion, but I'd fight just as hard as you to get Open Carry rights codified.


I don't understand it either. I personally am for OC and would stand up for it (even though I would not always OC when it is passed). This is a cause for all gun owners and we do need to all work together to get pro-gun laws reviewed and passed.

I personally am not crazy about the whole campus carry bill but you don't see me slamming the bill and itz supporters. This is bcoz it is and ok cause that would in some ways benefit the people; so I leave itz supports be to argue their case as well as wish them the best.

Trying to blame others that are trying to appeal for better gun laws doesn't seem right; just like assuming all CCer's are ignorant is in itself ignorant. If both OCer's and CCer's can settle down and have their most open minded and reasoning supporter to talk the issue through, I am sure that they would both understand each other better.

Hope you're able to improve your OC laws in NC...
 

Guest

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Feb 19, 2009
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The popping up of 30,06 signs due to OC getting passed is not any more true than the Easter bunny. Places that don't want CC now will still not want OC and same thing then. I agree that constitutional carry is better but we should have a plan B which is open carry to fall back to and if possible go for the two with the hope we would get at least one.

Oh really? You know this how? I wasn't licensed at the time CC passed in Texas, but I remember a number of signs popping up all over the place when any old sign would do. Some of them are still there. If you don't think some locations will post to prohibit OC, you are either overly optimistic, or willfully ignorant.
 
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B.D. WALKER

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Messages
56
Location
Houston, Texas
Oh really? You know this how? I wasn't licensed at the time CC passed in Texas, but I remember a number of signs popping up all over the place when any old sign would do. Some of them are still there. If you don't think some locations will post to prohibit OC, you are either overly optimistic, or willfully ignorant.


If I am to pick one; I would say I'm optimistic (I don't know about the overly part). Now to bring the discussion down to ur level, u can not compare when a process is starting off to when it is in play. Like any great or radical change there would be skeptics that would just jump to the worst outcome and act on this. But given time they see there is nothing to worry about.

Those that are aware of armed citizens now are not all putting up 30.06 signs and some even embraces these individuals. You asked how do i know this; well my answer is that no one know anything with 100% certainty that is why the people need to be educated. Itz not like you have seen the future. There are a number of pro-gun bills to be view in the next session that even if OC doesn't spark off the 30.06 sign out break some other just might; so are we not going to try bcoz of this?

No matter what pro-gun bill is passed, the chances that some 30.06 signs would accompany it is very likely but at the same time we have changed the minds of some over the years and they in turn took down their signs. In which process we never lost any of our acquired gun right as a compromise. We can not stop a property owner from putting up a 30.06 sign when ever they want but we can fight for our rights to own and bear arms in what ever manner we so choose. You can like it or you don't, thatz up to you...
 

Jim675

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Joined
Dec 17, 2007
Messages
1,023
Location
Bellevue, Washington, USA
I understand any "Texas' forum is for Texans only" feelings you may have. Feel free to skip right over this if that's an issue for you. I've lived many places, including San Angelo, TX. I really liked Texas and enjoyed my time there. I saw more patriotism and common decency there in a year then I saw in Seattle in, well, 15 years and counting.

OC is a strategic solution to all carry licensing problems. The power of OC to mass educate that normal people, trusted friends and neighbors, carry everyday is awe-inspiring.

The fears you have about gun buster signs and public terror have been brought up and defeated by real life experience in more than 40 other states. (http://www.opencarry.org/opencarry.html) Around 30 states have accepted OC as commonplace. WA had no actual OC until several years ago; now you can stroll Pike's Place Market in Seattle with your situational awareness alarm reserved for bad guys instead of LEO. Yes, there is still an occasional soccer mom or LEO who needs to be politely educated. But those officers and agencies now are very few and seldom require a court verdict to apply the law correctly.

Texas deserves better than to be associated with New York, Illinois, and D.C. (and OK, FL, and AR for that matter) on matters of personal liberty. Give the people of Texas the credit they deserve. OC does not raise crime rates. I *believe* it lowers them. People often get friendly and polite IF they notice an OC'd handgun. At any rate, there's nothing like repeatedly witnessing reality to help your neighbors through a bit of cognitive dissonance.

It does take time. But the fact is most people are not criminals. Even if they have a gun or a knife. Your fellow citizens will witness people not being criminals exactly like they do now and, eventually, they'll figure it out. Even the LEOs. :)

Only OC can do that for you. No matter how many new places you get to CC you will always be fighting against the non-gunning public for each new step because they don't know you. They think maybe this CC at campus bill was started by that shady recluse down the street, not their best friend or car-pool buddy from work.

Take off the mask. As you well know, lawful citizens with guns aren't bad guys. Uncover your pistols and let everyone else know it too.

Yes, new 30.06 signs will go up, for a while. The (non-enforceable version) do from time to time still in WA. But times are tough and losing 5% of your gross profit is a mighty expensive stand on principles for most businesses. They'll either cave in or go out of business to a more supportive competitor, and that's just the way it should be.

Make all 2A supporters happy. Make a united push for constitutional carry and your representatives who want to remain known as 2A supporters will get behind it. They like their jobs too much not to.

Good luck.
 

B.D. WALKER

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Messages
56
Location
Houston, Texas
I understand any "Texas' forum is for Texans only" feelings you may have. Feel free to skip right over this if that's an issue for you. I've lived many places, including San Angelo, TX. I really liked Texas and enjoyed my time there. I saw more patriotism and common decency there in a year then I saw in Seattle in, well, 15 years and counting.

OC is a strategic solution to all carry licensing problems. The power of OC to mass educate that normal people, trusted friends and neighbors, carry everyday is awe-inspiring.


Hey I can't speak for anyone else but you sound like a Texan to me. I agree that OC would be the educating factor for the non gun community. Most hear in passing some of these gun laws and bills and they just get up to object bcoz they were not aware that there was even an existing law to start with.

Yes, new 30.06 signs will go up, for a while. The (non-enforceable version) do from time to time still in WA. But times are tough and losing 5% of your gross profit is a mighty expensive stand on principles for most businesses. They'll either cave in or go out of business to a more supportive competitor, and that's just the way it should be.


Another great point that I myself have been making. The 30.06 signs are bound to turn up as it is with any new pro-gun law / policy, but it should not be like a outbreak like most fear. This like a lot before should only last a while till the general public get comfortable with the idea and see there is nothing to worry about.

Very nice thread...
 

GaryAdrian

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
27
Location
Houston, Texas, USA
I see the folks over at the CHL forum are mostly lukewarm to downright hostile, although there are some supporters for the concept. They just don't like anything that is initiated by "those OC people".

Funny... two years ago they resented the "outsiders" at OCDO. This year a Texas resident and Texas state rep work together to introduce an OC bill, and they won't support it because it's connected to OCDO.

I didn't see anything like that there. They are OK with OC, just that it has to come in the right way at the right time.
Don't sink other carry bills just to get OC. Give it time, it will come.
 

rushcreek2

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2010
Messages
909
Location
Colorado Springs. CO
The Southern Baptists and the churches of Christ have been arguing about baptism and instrumental music since sometime around 1858 . I don't think too many minds have been changed in the intervening 152 years. Welcome to Texas -where ALL ISSUES are "religious". That goes for this OC vs CC debate as well.

Let's not get bogged down shelling "peanuts" in the rafters while the barn is burning down. Contact your legislators and urge support /sponsorship for amending 46.02 to read "concealed handgun", and delete 46.035 (a).

The proposed act of the legislature to permit concealed carry on campus has nothing to do with open carry , and the open carry effort has nothing to do with CC on campus.
 
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B.D. WALKER

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Messages
56
Location
Houston, Texas
There are a number of pro-gun bills out already and some in the pipeline. Neither affects the other but all are there for a purpose. People who claim to be gun owners and supporters of the 2nd amendment rights for the people should not be trying to directly or indirectly sabotage what others believe in.

Just bcoz u dont want to OC does not mean others can't or shouldn't. That I am not a student on campus does not mean I should now stand against those for campus carry and vice versa. OC would benefit all including the CCer's coz then they would not get into trouble for accidentally showing their firearm while they CC.

The laws right now can get (and it has) gun owners in to problems with property ownes and the LEO's. What we propose is to amend these parts of the law to make it clearer and more gun carry friendly; thatz all...
 

cloudcroft

Campaign Veteran
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Jan 13, 2007
Messages
1,908
Location
El Paso, TX (formerly Colorado Springs, CO)
Jim675,

The state forums are open to anyone...I don't think any of us expect to have only state-specific residents posting.

I know I post in the Hawaii and New Mexico forums occasionally...and here in TX I see people from lots of other states posting also.

Besides, I don't think of myself as a "Texan" anyway -- state loyalty/identification reminds me of the petty, myopic Colonial Americans. Instead, I just think of myself as an American. Consequently, ALL states are my state.
 
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mustangkiller

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Sep 15, 2009
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300
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, ,
Jim675,

The state forums are open to anyone...I don't think any of us expect to have only state-specific residents posting.

I know I post in the Hawaii and New Mexico forums occasionally...and here in TX I see people from lots of other states posting also.

Besides, I don't think of myself as a "Texan" anyway -- state loyalty/identification reminds me of the petty, myopic Colonial Americans. Instead, I just think of myself as an American. Consequently, ALL states are my state.

My thoughts exactly. Well said sir.
 
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