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School Zones

neuroblades

neuroblades

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2009
Messages
1,240
Location
, Kentucky, USA
09jisaac said:
Can someone please tell me where they get the 1000 ft rule? I have read what everyone is talking about and unless school zone is defined somewhere else then I don't know where you get 1000 ft at.

Also, does this mean that I can't open carry in downtown louisa? Because I am pretty sure the whole town is within 1000 ft of a school.
Click to expand...

OK, after searching OCDO, I think I found the info you're looking for. It was posted by gutshot back on the 4-9-11:

"To be in compliance with all laws you need to comply with both Federal and KY. Laws.
Federal Law: No guns within 1000' of any school property, except on private property or for holder of in state CC license.
Ky. Law: No guns on actual school property, except if the gun stays in your car and it is not pointed or waved about.

So, If you don't have a Ky. CCDW you need read no further. Unless you are on private property you can't be within 1000' feet of school property, and be legal.
If you have a Ky. CCDW, the Federal law doesn't apply to you, but you must still obey the state law and see that the gun stays in the car and is not brandished. Ky wanted to make sure CCDW holders had this option and without it there would be no carry, of any kind, on school property. I don't think the Federal law has ever been used to convict anyone. I don't know of a case where anyone has been arrested for the violation of the Federal law by a State or local police officer. I don't know of any case where a person has been charged with a violation of the Federal law unless they were first charged with some other crime, this is usually an "add-on" charge to be used as leverage to convince a person to plead guilty to a secondary crime. If they agree to the quilty plea, the 1000' school zone infraction is dropped. The original law was ruled unconstitutional and many believe this one is no better and the Feds. don't seem anxious to test it".


SOURCE: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...-Signed-by-Governor-and-will-be-Ky.-Law/page2

Post #34 on page 2
 
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M

mrjam2jab

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769
Location
Levittown, Pennsylvania, USA
09jisaac said:
Can someone please tell me where they get the 1000 ft rule? I have read what everyone is talking about and unless school zone is defined somewhere else then I don't know where you get 1000 ft at.

Also, does this mean that I can't open carry in downtown louisa? Because I am pretty sure the whole town is within 1000 ft of a school.
Click to expand...


18 USC 921 Defintions

18 USC § 921 Definitions
(a) As used in this chapter—
(25) The term “school zone” means—
(A) in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or
private school; or
(B) within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of
a public, parochial or private school.
(26) The term “school” means a school which provides
elementary or secondary education, as determined
under State law.
Click to expand...
 
09jisaac

09jisaac

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Apr 13, 2011
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1,692
Location
Louisa, Kentucky
Thank you two who were helping me figure this out. I don't believe that I'm not going to be OCing in my city anymore because the whole town is within 1000ft of a school. And I have already pissed off the sheriff dept for OCing and I don't want to push my luck.
 
neuroblades

neuroblades

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Messages
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Location
, Kentucky, USA
To be quite honest, that federal law has been revised more than a few times since it was introduced back in the 90's. It needs to be revised again but this time simplify it by stating that OC is illegal IF on school property, not the 1,00 foot as it currectly states. This would make it easier for everyone, and OC'ers wouldn't have to freak out about carrying if they're simply walking down the street.

If this law were strictly adhered to by LE, it would make it nearly impossible for OC'ers to go anywhere!
 
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Bill Starks

Bill Starks

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Messages
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Location
Nortonville, KY, USA
Title 18 U.S.C. §922(q) School Zones


In essence, Title 18 U.S.C Part 1 Chapter 44 Section 922(q) known as the Federal Gun Free School Zones Act of 1995 currently on the books, effectively bans all concealed carry reciprocity agreements between States, by making it illegal for any person to have a functional firearm within 1000 Feet of the property line of any Elementary or High School in our country, with very few exceptions.

Title 18 Part 1 Chapter 44 Section 922 (unlawful acts)
United States Code - TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE - PART I - CRIMES - CHAPTER 44 - FIREARMS - section 922

BATFE Opinion (2002) on Reciprocity: http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/batf_school_zone.pdf

The original version of this law, passed in 1990, was struck down by the US Supreme Court in "United States v Lopez (1995)," because Congress had not claimed a connection to "interstate commerce," however the second version, the one which is currently on the books, was upheld as recently as 2005 by the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit in the case United States v Dorsey.

One exception to this law, is if the firearm is unloaded and in a locked container.

A second exception is having the firearm "on private property not part of school grounds." Remember, the roads/highways/sidewalks are not private property, so this exception does not apply while driving on public streets.

A third exception, is if the person possessing the firearm has a concealed carry permit issued by the State in which the school zone is located. This means that as the law is written, and as it has been interpreted by BATFE, if a person with a concealed carry permit is in any State other than the State that physically issued their permit, and they drive within 1000 feet of any K-12 school (which is impossible to avoid) with an unlocked gun, they are committing a federal crime. Violation of this law is punishable by up to five (5) years in federal prison and a conviction will bar a person from owning firearms for life


There was even a case in 2000 (United States v Tait) where an Alabama concealed carry permit holder was prosecuted under this federal law, for carrying a firearm in Alabama. The prosecution claimed that Mr. Tait's Alabama permit did not exempt him from the Federal Gun Free School Zones Act, even in Alabama.

In another case, United States v Nieves-Castaño, a woman was actually convicted under the Federal Gun Free School Zones Act for having a firearm in her home! Her home (a third floor apartment) just happened to be within 1000 feet of a school and it happened to be public property (a housing project). She was not a student, and her conduct had absolutely nothing to do with the school. This conviction was upheld by the Federal Appeals Court for the First Circuit in 2007.

Ironically, law enforcement officers carrying a handgun under LEOSA are not exempt from the GFSZA, unless they are acting in their official capacity. This means that a law enforcement officer, carrying under LEOSA while on vacation with their family, can not drive within 1000 feet of a school without risking five years in federal prison.

Also note, there is no exception in the law for the discharge of a firearm by anyone other than a law enforcement officer acting in their official capacity on public property while in a school zone (within 1000 feet of the property line of any K-12 school), under any circumstance. This could conceivably be an issue if you're the victim of a violent crime while on public property such as roads, sidewalks, fair grounds, city parks, etc.


Many people think this law has never been enforced. Unfortunately this is not the case. This revised law has indeed been enforced, against several people, below are a few examples:

United States v Danks (1999) USA v. Jordan Danks

United States v Tait (2000) (Attempted prosecution of an Alabama permit holder) 202 F3d 1320 United States v. Tait | OpenJurist

United States v Haywood (2003) UNITED STATES of America v. Ira HAYWOOD, Appellant.

United States v Dorsey (2005) (Upheld the revised law as constitutional) UNITED STATES of America, Plaintiff-Appellee, v. Nikos Delano DORSEY, Defendant-Appellant.

United States v Smith (2005) USA v. Smith This case says that the mere movement of the gun's component parts in Interstate Commerce is enough to satisfy the jurisdictional element needed for conviction.

United States v Nieves-Castaño (2007) UNITED STATES of America, Appellee, v. Belen NIEVES-CASTAÑO, Defendant, Appellant. A woman was convicted for having a gun in her home; which happened to be within 1000ft of a school.

United States v Weekes (2007) [UNITED]UNITED STATES OF AMERICA v. PHINEHAS WEEKES, Appellant STATES OF AMERICA v. PHINEHAS WEEKES[/url]

United States v Benally (2007) http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-10th-circuit/1364658.html

United States v Cruz-Rodriguez (2008) Untitled #1668141​
 
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