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Thread: Libel

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    Libel

    John Pierce,

    I have reported two posts which a poster has called me a criminal. Someone needs to get on the ball and remove the posts. I do not stand libel. If you do not remove the posts I will assume you condone the defamation.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...72#post1405372

    kwikrnu

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    Quick, somebody call the Waaaahmbulance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hef View Post
    Quick, somebody call the Waaaahmbulance.
    You might like people spreading lies about you. I do not appreciate, nor will I tolerate people calling me a criminal and accusing me of having committed acts of domestic violence.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Why are you asking the administrator of the board to destroy evidence of what may be a criminal, as well as civil, violation?

    I would think you would want to preserve the evidence.

    Of course, drawing attention to the event will probably result in a significant number of folks asking you for cites to the specific comments and for you to prove your claim of innocence here as well as possibly in a civil or criminal courtroom.

    Me? I'm just perversely curious. Who said it, and what did they say? Citations, please.

    stay safe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Why are you asking the administrator of the board to destroy evidence of what may be a criminal, as well as civil, violation?

    I would think you would want to preserve the evidence.

    Of course, drawing attention to the event will probably result in a significant number of folks asking you for cites to the specific comments and for you to prove your claim of innocence here as well as possibly in a civil or criminal courtroom.

    Me? I'm just perversely curious. Who said it, and what did they say? Citations, please.

    stay safe.
    I'm attempting to mitigate my loss by giving notice to the administrator of the forum. John Pierce has either ignored my attempts to notify via by the alert or has not seen the notification.

    I have already sued and settled with the local police department which made the original unsubstantiated claim. The cops couldn't prove it and neither can anyone here on this forum.
    Last edited by kwikrnu; 11-20-2010 at 08:26 PM.

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    We shouldn't be accusing someone of being a criminal unless we have knowledge of a conviction to back it up. Even then, it would only be appropriate if it added to the discussion and wasn't just used to insult the criminal.

    That being said, threatening libel is kinda over-the-top. Even if someone won the case, if I understand the law correctly, he'd have to prove monetary damages or show that the poster was malicious in his actions. Otherwise, he wins the case and gets zero dollars for his efforts.

    On a message board??? I don't see any monetary damages and, frankly, on a message board, these kinds of insults are dime-a-dozen. They usually come from immaturity, not from malice.

    Report the post and move on. If the person cannot ever have a disagreement without hurling insults, ignore him. If the poster keeps up the harassmet, he probably is committing other infractions regularly. Even as patient as John and Mike are, he'll be gone eventually.

    However, everyone has their own little "ban hammer," the ignore button. Use it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    We shouldn't be accusing someone of being a criminal unless we have knowledge of a conviction to back it up. Even then, it would only be appropriate if it added to the discussion and wasn't just used to insult the criminal.

    That being said, threatening libel is kinda over-the-top. Even if someone won the case, if I understand the law correctly, he'd have to prove monetary damages or show that the poster was malicious in his actions. Otherwise, he wins the case and gets zero dollars for his efforts.

    On a message board??? I don't see any monetary damages and, frankly, on a message board, these kinds of insults are dime-a-dozen. They usually come from immaturity, not from malice.

    Report the post and move on. If the person cannot ever have a disagreement without hurling insults, ignore him. If the poster keeps up the harassmet, he probably is committing other infractions regularly. Even as patient as John and Mike are, he'll be gone eventually.

    However, everyone has their own little "ban hammer," the ignore button. Use it.
    I have been denied employment because a potential employer looked me up on the internet. He told me he would not hire someone charged with domestic violence. I know the libelous remarks are false, but now I have taken to informing forums where comments have been posted. It won't be hard to prove damages. If John needs a written letter I can do that too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwikrnu View Post
    I have been denied employment because a potential employer looked me up on the internet. He told me he would not hire someone charged with domestic violence. I know the libelous remarks are false, but now I have taken to informing forums where comments have been posted. It won't be hard to prove damages. If John needs a written letter I can do that too.
    I strongly doubt it would be from OCDO message board comment. If it were, it would be extremely hard to prove unless the person who denied you the job says he did so solely based on the comments on OCDO.

    There is enough information about you on the Internet that I would never hire you, convicted as a criminal or not. I think it is one heckuvan assumption that a single person's off-handed remark on a message board that you immediately deny, demanding proof, resulted in your not getting a job.

    Still, without proof, the person should never have made the post and it should be deleted. However, making a big stink about it is unwise. It gets folks talking about what you HAVE done, and that won't help you land a job.

    I recommend what I did in the other post. Report it. Send private messages to John or Mike. Keep reporting it until the posts are deleted or the admins tell you it won't be. But don't air your dirty laundry in public.

    If I were you, I'd ask the admins to delete this thread too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I strongly doubt it would be from OCDO message board comment. If it were, it would be extremely hard to prove unless the person who denied you the job says he did so solely based on the comments on OCDO.

    There is enough information about you on the Internet that I would never hire you, convicted as a criminal or not. I think it is one heckuvan assumption that a single person's off-handed remark on a message board that you immediately deny, demanding proof, resulted in your not getting a job.
    I wasn't told which forum, but if John wants to be party to a suit all he need do is refuse to delete the comments.

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    I wish you luck. However, I think you will fail miserably in your lawsuit. But, have at it.

    Anyway, I've said my piece and will return you whence you came.

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    Regular Member ChiangShih's Avatar
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    Lol, this is pathetic, imo. You're getting touch over a comment you know to be untrue. Deal with it, it is the internet. Also the idea that a potential employer found you through your OCDO screen name, read through all of your threads, then denied you employment based on an offhand comment of an unnamed 3rd party is ridiculous. A sad attempt to convince a mod to remove the comment.

    Welcome to the internet sir, grow a thicker skin or unplug.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiangShih View Post
    Lol, this is pathetic, imo. You're getting touch over a comment you know to be untrue. Deal with it, it is the internet. Also the idea that a potential employer found you through your OCDO screen name, read through all of your threads, then denied you employment based on an offhand comment of an unnamed 3rd party is ridiculous. A sad attempt to convince a mod to remove the comment.

    Welcome to the internet sir, grow a thicker skin or unplug.
    Please post your name and address and give me permission to libel you across the internet. If it's no big deal as you state.

    I do not mind an argument, but these defamatory posts have taken their toll on me to the point I will no longer put up with it.

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    Regular Member ChiangShih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwikrnu View Post
    Please post your name and address and give me permission to libel you across the internet. If it's no big deal as you state.

    I do not mind an argument, but these defamatory posts have taken their toll on me to the point I will no longer put up with it.
    From what I read the individual who insulted only directed it at your user name, so you have all the information you need to libel me. Go ahead

    As I stated before, get over it. You should have learned how to deal with verbal bullies in grade school. You're rubber their glue, sticks and stones and all that mess.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiangShih View Post
    From what I read the individual who insulted only directed it at your user name, so you have all the information you need to libel me. Go ahead

    As I stated before, get over it. You should have learned how to deal with verbal bullies in grade school. You're rubber their glue, sticks and stones and all that mess.

    It is well known who I am. In the real world bullies are dealt with by using libel lawsuits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwikrnu View Post
    It is well known who I am. In the real world bullies are dealt with by using libel lawsuits.
    really? I have no idea what your real name is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daylen View Post
    really? I have no idea what your real name is.
    Most of us do. I won't post it here. He manages to the attention he seems to desire, so his real name has been mentioned numerous times as part of situations that I, for one, would not be proud to be part of. He seems to be though. *shrug*

    Legal disclaimer: I'm not saying that he is a criminal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwikrnu View Post
    I wasn't told which forum, but if John wants to be party to a suit all he need do is refuse to delete the comments.
    That does not make one party to a lawsuit.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwikrnu View Post
    It is well known who I am. In the real world bullies are dealt with by using libel lawsuits.
    Your name is known because you want it to be. Count me in the group that would never hire you. My company doesn't need any painters. Good luck with your lawsuit.

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    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Most of us do. I won't post it here. He manages to the attention he seems to desire, so his real name has been mentioned numerous times as part of situations that I, for one, would not be proud to be part of. He seems to be though. *shrug*

    Legal disclaimer: I'm not saying that he is a criminal.
    +1. Everything kwik has said here in this thread is true. Even if you are of a mind that "he asked for it" or some such thing, the fact is, he broke no laws, and he has been libeled against. However, I do not believe the blame at all falls to John, Mike, or administrators of any website/forum unless they specifically made the libelous comments.

    IANAL.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sultan62 View Post
    +1. Everything kwik has said here in this thread is true. Even if you are of a mind that "he asked for it" or some such thing, the fact is, he broke no laws, and he has been libeled against. However, I do not believe the blame at all falls to John, Mike, or administrators of any website/forum unless they specifically made the libelous comments.

    IANAL.
    While I would not say that he is a criminal, neither would I say that he broke no laws. One can break laws yet avoid the moniker criminal. I don't know that he is or is not a criminal. I don't know that he has or has not broken any laws.

    Although, I must say, I wonder. A lot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    That does not make one party to a lawsuit.
    If I were to file suit I would file against several anonymous users including John who obviously moderates this site heavily.

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    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    While I would not say that he is a criminal, neither would I say that he broke no laws. One can break laws yet avoid the moniker criminal. I don't know that he is or is not a criminal. I don't know that he has or has not broken any laws.

    Although, I must say, I wonder. A lot.
    It would have been more appropriate to say he has not been proven to have broken any laws. Either way, the rest of the comment stands.
    Last edited by sultan62; 11-21-2010 at 06:27 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sultan62 View Post
    It would have been more appropriate to say he has not been proven to have broken any laws. Either way, the rest of the comment stands.
    Absolutely, and I agree with your comment. The English language is not as precise as we would sometimes like. That's why, if I were a betting man, I'd bet against a libel suit being successful in this case. "Criminal" can be someone's opinion of the poster's behavior--or it could be strictly construed as meaning that the person has been specifically convicted of a crime. I wouldn't use that word, nor would I consider it so out of line as to be libelous.

    That and proving damages is going to be dang near impossible.

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    A comment was made towards Leonard that was expressly egregious, and accusatory in another thread a while back. It specified and directly claimed to have knowledge that Leonard was in fact a criminal.

    The individual was expressing his direct "knowledge", that Leonard was in fact arrested and charged with the crime of Domestic Violence.

    This is consistent with a rampant smearfest that individuals have partaken in that do not agree with Leonards decision, and more than this, they go out of their way to harass, intimidate, libel, slander, and defame him.

    I want to point out some basic facts:

    When Mike released his commentary in regards to the "Radnor Lake Incident", it was not nearly as "emotive" as Johns response.

    Mike's comment was along the lines of, "While fundamentally he did nothing wrong...", speaking of the incident.

    Johns commentary went well beyond that, stating the same emotive fear-laden bull-excrement that many of Leonards detractors have.

    Comments specifically focusing on his choice in attire and firearm. A true series of comments that could serve as fuel for the antis train of lies.


    I conducted an experiment to see just how bipartisan John and/or Mike were.

    I made it a point to make an egregious comment towards Leonards detractor, specifying that he was on "Megans List". This after Leonard had requested that the libelous individuals commentary be removed because it was patently untrue.

    I spent $35 to run checks on individuals whose names were made known to me through watching and researching Leonards activities and those of his detractors.

    Records popped up, but Leonard was squeeky clean, just as he had claimed. (Neither Mike nor John were part of this loose investigation.)


    Shortly after conducting my experiment to point out the biased application of rule here, I received a message from John, telling me "Never to make such commentary again, and to remove the comment immediately.".

    Interestingly enough, the other individuals commentary was never removed, despite it being directly similar to that of my own.

    I pointed out that I would happily remove it, as I did not believe that comment in the first place, and only said it to prove a point.

    I then thanked him for proving it.


    When it all comes down to it, it is John and Mikes site. They are allowed to be preferentially biased and formulate opinions just like the rest of us. They float the rent here and provide the support. I respect them in this, no doubt.

    However, in my opinion, someones bias is showing as embarrassingly as an open fly while going commando.



    Now that I have said my piece...

    *Insert numerous posts from Leonard bashers below*
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    OK. That prompts a question that should not have to be asked, but now, to establish the correctness of the above defense of kwikrnu, it now needs to be asked and answered or the preceding post loses a pillar necessary to stop it from collapsing in on itself:

    kwikrnu, have you ever been arrested for any kind of domestic violence (regardless of how the charge was specifically worded or whether the arrest resulted in a conviction on that charge or another)? You know what is being asked, so quibbling about precise terminology would make most folks assume that the answer is yes. If you don't wish to answer, that is OK. But, it does mean that the above post loses a key point on which it rests.

    So, were you, were you not, or is it none of our business? Feel free to ignore this post if the third option is the one you'd choose. But, again, in that case, the above argument collapses.

    I wish we didn't have to ask. But the issue has been raised in your defense.
    Last edited by eye95; 11-21-2010 at 09:50 PM.

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