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Thread: OT- My first encounter with an anti-and she's my customer!

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    OT- My first encounter with an anti-and she's my customer!

    Some of you know that I have a house cleaning business and, due to that, I CC most of the time. I also carry a folding knife in my left pocket and an extra mag in my right pocket. When I have to clean a shower, I remove them from my pockets and put them on a window ledge or other convenient place until I'm done, then put them back in my pockets. Yesterday afternoon I cleaned for a customer who has been with me for about a year and a half and has 2 children, a boy 16, and a girl, 13. I was tired by the time I finished yesterday and forgot to put my knife and mag back in my pockets. I didn't miss them until I got home and got ready for bed. I knew where they were so I wasn't worried. I called her this morning before going to another job and said I had left them and would like to come and pick them up. She said okay. When I got there, she said she wanted to talk to me about it.

    She said they really liked my work, but didn't want me bringing my gun or knife in the house. I tried to explain that it was just an emergency piece of equipment, like a spare tire or fire extinquisher. She said she understood but people didn't use those things to kill people. She was very nice, but also very nervous. I told her that my life was a gift from God and that I was responsible to care for it and protect it and that was why I carried a gun. She called my knife a "switchblade" when it's a 4" folding knife. Then she said somewhat aghast that I was alone with her children from time to time, as if having my gun with me was a threat to them. I guess I'm not dangerous if I don't have it with me. Nevermind intent, that got thrown out the window! I could see that I wasn't going to get anywhere, so I didn't say much more. I need the work right now, so I agreed to leave my gun and knife in my car, which is parked about 60-70 feet away. I might as well leave them home for all the good they'll do me there. I was sitting there almost with my mouth open I was so taken aback; the remark about her kids really hurt.

    Sorry to make this so long, but I have been upset about this for most of the day. Now I know how those of you who can't carry even concealed at work feel. These people also are quite religious and feel God will protect them and if anything happens, then it was God's will, never mind using the brain He gave you! Where in the world do people get this kind of thinking?!? I have been trying to wrap my mind around this thought pattern all day and I just can't. What reasonable thinking person would refuse to protect their own lives?!? AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!! Makes me want to scream. Just to show you how anti weapons she is, she couldn't even hand me my knife and mag, she put them in a little paper bag and handed that to me! Going on her attitude, I would be willing to bet that there is NO self defense plan in place to protect the family if someone broke in. They do have a dog and that probably helps, but not in all cases.

    Again, I apologize for the length, but just needed to vent to people I knew would understand. I will be looking for another customer to replace her in time. The house isn't isolated, but it does have some privacy and is out of town. Thanks for listening to my rant!
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


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    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    Not to come off as harsh but you have to remember you are on private property and they have their rules.
    Concealed means concealed in these circumstances, I suggest something smaller to carry...

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    Very sad that you have to endure that in your professional setting...

    Again, this is why I own my Keltec P32. It literally can be with me anywhere there is not a metal detector and no one will know.
    Live Free or Die!

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    Oh, I told her I respected that it was her house and her rules, no doubt about that. My gun WAS concealed in my purse. She found my mag and knife on the window ledge of the master bath where I had forgotten and left it and deduced from that that I had a gun with me. She nor anyone in her family has ever seen my gun, it stays concealed in my purse. Most of my customers know that I carry and they are fine with it because they know me; some I have been cleaning for for years. If I hadn't forgotten and left the mag and knife, she never would have known.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    You left two potentially dangerous items sitting unsecured in an employers house, with children, and you are surprised by her reaction? Especially after you didn't request her permission to bring those items with you onto her property as part of your employment contract with her?

    While the full reasoning behind her decision is flawed in my view, she had every right to ask you to leave your gun, mag and knife in your car as you had just shown to her that you may not be able to be trusted to keep those items secure. Is she to assume that you will never do anything like that again, or perhaps, as a stretch, that you wont leave your firearm sitting about next time?

    Trust is earned, and you didn't earn it in this situation. You failed in your responsibility as a guest/employee in someones home to keep your personal protective items secured.

    You have no-one to blame but yourself in my opinion. As an alternative for next time, try securing your items in a purse, a backpack or other personal, close-able item that you wont forget to take with you when you leave.

    my .02 cents

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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Again, this is why I own my Keltec P32. It literally can be with me anywhere there is not a metal detector and no one will know.

    I can't do that, I gave her my word that I wouldn't bring a weapon in her house. I am an honest person and people trust my word; once I give it, I don't go back on it. I will find another customer, hopefully soon, or a part time job, (probably can't carry on it either) and then no longer clean for her.

    The Brady Campaign has done it's job well, at least on some people.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

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    Too bad about the oversight that got you "outed"
    Where I work is a declared gun-free zone, to include the parking lot. I can be fired instantly if they discover a firearm so much as locked in my vehicle on co. property.
    I feel your pain, but at least you get to keep your pistol close enough to carry to your next place.

    I gotta wonder if those folk ever think that God would like them to use common sense and/or protect themselves and family from the deeds of the evil one(s)

    Hang in there, maybe you'll get a customer base that will allow you to become more discretionary as to your working conditions....

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Certainly your stance is respected. I think you should consider the P32 (or similar) gun for future times where the ultimate discretion is warranted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby View Post
    I can't do that, I gave her my word that I wouldn't bring a weapon in her house. I am an honest person and people trust my word; once I give it, I don't go back on it. I will find another customer, hopefully soon, or a part time job, (probably can't carry on it either) and then no longer clean for her.

    The Brady Campaign has done it's job well, at least on some people.
    Go see Champion Arms. If you do I will put in a good word for you with the owners.
    Live Free or Die!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Certainly your stance is respected. I think you should consider the P32 (or similar) gun for future times where the ultimate discretion is warranted.



    Go see Champion Arms. If you do I will put in a good word for you with the owners.

    They know me quite well at Champion, I learned to shoot there and was a member. I know Marie and Scott somewhat. I appreciate the offer. I can't buy anything right now. I am having problem with my car, the mechanic thinks it's the head gasket because he found oil in the antifreeze when he changed it today. That only happens if the antifreeze is circulating throught the engine. As far as this car goes, I'm screwed if it's the head gasket; cost more to fix than this old car is worth. And I can't afford to buy another one right now. It's been such a wonderful day!!!
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby View Post
    They know me quite well at Champion, I learned to shoot there and was a member. I know Marie and Scott somewhat. I appreciate the offer. I can't buy anything right now. I am having problem with my car, the mechanic thinks it's the head gasket because he found oil in the antifreeze when he changed it today. That only happens if the antifreeze is circulating throught the engine. As far as this car goes, I'm screwed if it's the head gasket; cost more to fix than this old car is worth. And I can't afford to buy another one right now. It's been such a wonderful day!!!
    PM me with the make and model of car... I may be be able to change the head gasket.

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    Quote Originally Posted by M1Gunr View Post
    Not to come off as harsh but you have to remember you are on private property and they have their rules.
    Concealed means concealed in these circumstances, I suggest something smaller to carry...

    My gun WAS concealed in my purse as it always is when I am working, so size would make no difference. It was a spare mag and my knife that she saw.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby View Post
    They know me quite well at Champion, I learned to shoot there and was a member. I know Marie and Scott somewhat. I appreciate the offer. I can't buy anything right now. I am having problem with my car, the mechanic thinks it's the head gasket because he found oil in the antifreeze when he changed it today. That only happens if the antifreeze is circulating throught the engine. As far as this car goes, I'm screwed if it's the head gasket; cost more to fix than this old car is worth. And I can't afford to buy another one right now. It's been such a wonderful day!!!

    Ruby, I wished I still lived over on that side of the hill. I would take a look at it for you. I want to suggest, if you have someone who is a little knowledgable and can follow directions. There is a product that could seal the head gasket and cost about $30 We had several customers who in the same situation who could not afford the proper repair and the car was not worth the money but we used this product (K&W: Permanent Head Gasket & Block Repair ) It worked on 90% of the vehicles and only had one that didnt last over a year. NOTE* you have to follow the directions to the letter. Hope this helps and Good luck Ruby.

    edited to say... You can get this at most any auto parts store.
    Last edited by amzbrady; 11-20-2010 at 11:45 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby View Post
    Some of you know that I have a house cleaning business and, due to that, I CC most of the time. I also carry a folding knife in my left pocket and an extra mag in my right pocket. When I have to clean a shower, I remove them from my pockets and put them on a window ledge or other convenient place until I'm done, then put them back in my pockets. Yesterday afternoon I cleaned for a customer who has been with me for about a year and a half and has 2 children, a boy 16, and a girl, 13. I was tired by the time I finished yesterday and forgot to put my knife and mag back in my pockets. I didn't miss them until I got home and got ready for bed. I knew where they were so I wasn't worried. I called her this morning before going to another job and said I had left them and would like to come and pick them up. She said okay. When I got there, she said she wanted to talk to me about it.

    She said they really liked my work, but didn't want me bringing my gun or knife in the house. I tried to explain that it was just an emergency piece of equipment, like a spare tire or fire extinquisher. She said she understood but people didn't use those things to kill people. She was very nice, but also very nervous. I told her that my life was a gift from God and that I was responsible to care for it and protect it and that was why I carried a gun. She called my knife a "switchblade" when it's a 4" folding knife. Then she said somewhat aghast that I was alone with her children from time to time, as if having my gun with me was a threat to them. I guess I'm not dangerous if I don't have it with me. Nevermind intent, that got thrown out the window! I could see that I wasn't going to get anywhere, so I didn't say much more. I need the work right now, so I agreed to leave my gun and knife in my car, which is parked about 60-70 feet away. I might as well leave them home for all the good they'll do me there. I was sitting there almost with my mouth open I was so taken aback; the remark about her kids really hurt.

    Sorry to make this so long, but I have been upset about this for most of the day. Now I know how those of you who can't carry even concealed at work feel. These people also are quite religious and feel God will protect them and if anything happens, then it was God's will, never mind using the brain He gave you! Where in the world do people get this kind of thinking?!? I have been trying to wrap my mind around this thought pattern all day and I just can't. What reasonable thinking person would refuse to protect their own lives?!? AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!! Makes me want to scream. Just to show you how anti weapons she is, she couldn't even hand me my knife and mag, she put them in a little paper bag and handed that to me! Going on her attitude, I would be willing to bet that there is NO self defense plan in place to protect the family if someone broke in. They do have a dog and that probably helps, but not in all cases.

    Again, I apologize for the length, but just needed to vent to people I knew would understand. I will be looking for another customer to replace her in time. The house isn't isolated, but it does have some privacy and is out of town. Thanks for listening to my rant!
    This was a hard read, but I understand. Being a "man of the cloth" I've heard stories about people saying how God will protect them and all. God helps those that help themselves IMHO. If my life is a gift from God, I's want to protect it. I carry in the pulpit and will continue to do so until I am called home. That being said, it's rough on how most view guns as weapons to kill rather than their true use.

    Ruby, I have been pondering ... I may need someone to come clean my place in the future. Hell, feel free to OC. guns are welcome, and suggested in my neighborhood

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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    Ruby, I wished I still lived over on that side of the hill. I would take a look at it for you. I want to suggest, if you have someone who is a little knowledgable and can follow directions. There is a product that could seal the head gasket and cost about $30 We had several customers who in the same situation who could not afford the proper repair and the car was not worth the money but we used this product (K&W: Permanent Head Gasket & Block Repair ) It worked on 90% of the vehicles and only had one that didnt last over a year. NOTE* you have to follow the directions to the letter. Hope this helps and Good luck Ruby.

    edited to say... You can get this at most any auto parts store.

    Thanks, AMZ, I appreciate the info. What started this off was back during the summer I noticed that the fluid level in the reservoir went down a couple of times, but I never saw any evidence of a leak and nothing on the ground. When I took it in, they thought at first it might be a leak in the radiator. When the level went down, I didn't have any antifreeze with me, so I put water in it, which diluted it of course. Because of that, he didn't want to open the pet cock for fear he wouldn't be able to seal it back up. So he drained the radiator through the hose, saw bits of the stuff you use to seal a leaking radiator, along with some oil. I guess it was a mess. I had it done today because of the cold temps that are coming our way. They filled it up with new antifreeze and told me to keep an eye on it, which is what I am doing. It's difficult to use the bus system because I am at a different house each day. I do appreciate all the suggestions. Thanks!
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goose View Post
    This was a hard read, but I understand. Being a "man of the cloth" I've heard stories about people saying how God will protect them and all. God helps those that help themselves IMHO. If my life is a gift from God, I's want to protect it. I carry in the pulpit and will continue to do so until I am called home. That being said, it's rough on how most view guns as weapons to kill rather than their true use.

    Ruby, I have been pondering ... I may need someone to come clean my place in the future. Hell, feel free to OC. guns are welcome, and suggested in my neighborhood
    Thanks, Goose. You let me know when you want some cleaning done. I do an excellent job and I have references!!
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

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    I can't tell you all how touched I am by all the suggestions, caring, and support. We really ARE family on here and we really do care about each other. You all have made me feel better about all this and have brightened up my evening! I stand behind all of you as well. Thank you for being there and encouraging me, my friends.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

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    I've compiled a list of parts and prices if the head gaskets need to be replaced in Ruby's car. I also have a guide on how to perform the work. In terms of tools, I may be slightly ill-equipped. I have a jack and a socket set, but I may need a torque wrench as well. If anyone here is experienced in this type of work or has the tools, let me know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by .45ACPaddy View Post
    I've compiled a list of parts and prices if the head gaskets need to be replaced in Ruby's car. I also have a guide on how to perform the work. In terms of tools, I may be slightly ill-equipped. I have a jack and a socket set, but I may need a torque wrench as well. If anyone here is experienced in this type of work or has the tools, let me know.
    Bad situation all around Ruby, but don't even worry about the car, we'll get you fixed up one way or the other. I'm what, third or fourth in line to offer my help at this point? I have a very messy but fairly well-equipped shop available. Torque wrenches, air tools, jackstands galore. I usually don't end up with extra bits left over after a procedure either. Usually.

    ETA: Of course that would mean schlepping the car to Whidbey. But worst-case scenario I have a flatbed trailer too.
    Last edited by Metalhead47; 11-21-2010 at 12:30 AM.
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    Sounds like it might be worth the trip up there!

    I've acquired a newer vehicle recently that runs like a top, but my old car, a 95 Honda Civic, has a surging idle. Any idea?

    BTW: To make this OC related, I OC when I repair my car!

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by .45ACPaddy View Post
    Sounds like it might be worth the trip up there!

    I've acquired a newer vehicle recently that runs like a top, but my old car, a 95 Honda Civic, has a surging idle. Any idea?

    BTW: To make this OC related, I OC when I repair my car!
    Any ijit lights on? I'd offer my scan tool, but any auto parts store can do the same for you minus the schlep, no charge. And my blanket advice for an engine acting funny is run a can of Seafoam thru it.
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    Bad situation all around Ruby, but don't even worry about the car, we'll get you fixed up one way or the other. I'm what, third or fourth in line to offer my help at this point? I have a very messy but fairly well-equipped shop available. Torque wrenches, air tools, jackstands galore. I usually don't end up with extra bits left over after a procedure either. Usually.

    ETA: Of course that would mean schlepping the car to Whidbey. But worst-case scenario I have a flatbed trailer too.
    Metalhead, thank you! If I need to bring it over to Whidbey, I will. I want to see how it behaves this next week, if it develops any more leaks and have the mechanic do some more diagnostic work to see if he can pinpoint the problem. You guys don't know how much it means to me to have you all offer to help. I have no family here, or anyone else willing to help, so it means a great deal to me. I now have a case of the "warm fuzzies!" Thanks to all for caring!
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    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby View Post
    Metalhead, thank you! If I need to bring it over to Whidbey, I will. I want to see how it behaves this next week, if it develops any more leaks and have the mechanic do some more diagnostic work to see if he can pinpoint the problem. You guys don't know how much it means to me to have you all offer to help. I have no family here, or anyone else willing to help, so it means a great deal to me. I now have a case of the "warm fuzzies!" Thanks to all for caring!
    What kind of car we talking bout here?
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby View Post
    I can't tell you all how touched I am by all the suggestions, caring, and support. We really ARE family on here and we really do care about each other. You all have made me feel better about all this and have brightened up my evening! I stand behind all of you as well. Thank you for being there and encouraging me, my friends.
    Ruby, we are behind you as well. I'm Pming our phone ##. If you're ever down this way, stop in ANYTIME. We'd love to have you.

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    Symptoms

    Ruby,

    You may have less of a problem than you think, or at worst the head gasket is possibly ruptured.

    You indicate oil in your water, but not vice versa....the water cools the engine and keeps the temp in the range it needs to be based on the thermostat that is installed, usually around 175-190 degrees. Anti Freeze does just that, it lower the freezing temp of the water, but doesn't do much for cooling charecteristics.

    I didn't see what kind of car you had posted, but there are a couple of tells to look for that one of us can help with before anyone goes tearing into the engine.

    First, is there any indication of water in the OIL? Pull the dipstick and see if it's milky or any thing but oil...this can also be done, carefully by unscrewing the oil bung on the oil pan and letting just a little amount of fluid creep out the threads, Oil sits on top of any water and so it should be on the bottom of your pan and flow out....upon an Oil change, look inside the oil filter for evidence of water (or milky, frothy oil).

    Second, on acceleration, do you see a LOT of "white" smoke that comes out the tail pipe or excessive water dripping out the tailpipe?

    Third, (and you may need a little help with this) remove the spark plugs, one by one. If you have any that are really, really clean looking compared to the others, that is an indication of where the breach in the headgasket is. In conjunction with this, is to do a compression check of each cylinder, also a best indication of a potential problem

    Forth, do you have a temp guage or an idiot light? With a gauge you can better tell if the engine is having cooling issues due to overheating.

    Fifth, Your mechanic should have done a "leak down" on the radiator system, it will also tell you a lot...the fact that he didn't do this would make me start looking for a second opinion (IMHO).

    The big issue with the surviveability of the engine is more around the issue if you have water in your OIL more than if you have oil in the coolant.

    A loss of water in the radiator enough to notice over a couple of weeks that needs to be replaced (like a quart or two), would be very visible through your exhaust (CLOUDS of white smoke) and if your not actually getting water into the oiling system, I'd start looking for simple leaks in the cooling system. Think of it this way...both systems (oiling and cooling) are independent closed loops systems....if your losing water or oil, it HAS to go somewhere....your oil level goes down (if the car is burning oil), because it is blowing past the rings and ends up going out the exhaust (dark to black smoke)....the water loss in the cooling system (due to a blown HG) either has to go into the oil or into the cylinders...in the latter case, it goes out the exhaust and causes damage to the cylinder walls, pistons, etc....but comes out as white smoke (very white).

    Adding some kind of "fix-it" to the water to the oil, hoping it will seek out the leak and seal it is generally a low end shot at a repair, and I wouldn't recommend doing this until you really know what is going on.

    It is important to get it properly diagnosed to the issue and then look to address that, and I can help with some simple diagnostics

    Depending on the type of car, access to the head gasket (I have to pull the engine to do the head gaskets on mine), it may be relatively easy ( 1/2 day and less expensive),vs more of a challenge....for my car, I have to spend 9 hours just pulling junk off, apart and out of the way, before I can actually pull the engine to get it on a stand.

    If the car is of low value, you may be able to run it for longish time while you save up....I have a friend that I may be able to get access to a car from auction at wholesale.

    anyway...let me know how I can help.

    PS: I was OC'g while posting this...to keep the topic relavent to OC
    Last edited by jt59; 11-21-2010 at 08:45 AM.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

  25. #25
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Feb 2007
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    North of Seattle, Washington, USA
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    Back to your "Anti" Customer for a moment

    I tried to explain that it was just an emergency piece of equipment, like a spare tire or fire extinquisher. She said she understood but [b]people didn't use those things to kill people[b].
    People may not use the spare tire to kill with but I've personally seen a person's head after they were killed with a fire extinguisher. Likewise with car jack and tire iron.

    Your customer has OD'd on the Kool-Aid that the anti gun crowd is pushing and is unwilling to accept that people who are inclined to kill people will do so with anything available. Surprised she allows you to use all those "caustic" chemicals that are found in many housecleaning products. After all, people are killed with them too.

    BTW, if you post the type of car and the engine size it may help with suggestions as to what your problem is. Many vehicles have known problems associated with them. For example, some toyota engines have a frequent tendency to blow head gaskets. Same for the Ford 3.8L that is found in the Windstar. Mysterious loss of coolant with no puddles is often a sign of a bad head gasket. It can also be as simple as a bad Radiator cap that does not hold pressure, thus allowing the water to escape while driving at highway speed. Again, What Car? What Engine?
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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