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Thread: New to the site and guns.

  1. #1
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    New to the site and guns.

    Just a quickie about my self. I live in Alexandria, VA. I've been doing a lot of research and finally bought my first handgun today at the Gun Show. I picked up a Glock 19 Generation 4. I'm thinking about Open Carrying tomorrow going to the gun range and running errands. I have a question for you all that OC. It's probably a dumb and easy question but I have to ask. When you OC, do you have your mags fully loaded and gun racked and 1 bullet in the chamber? Or do you just have the magazine loaded and gun NOT racked?

    I will post back here to see if I get any complaints or problems while I OC tomorrow for the first time!

    thanks in advance!

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Welcome to OCDO and the world of gun ownership.

    Your question about carrying with a round in the chamber or not is probably only second to which caliber is better with regards to starting open warfare. I happen to belong to the camp that says you will need that 1.3 seconds it takes to rack the slide to do more important stuff - like shooting, moving, figuring out what is happening, etc.

    Since even your plastic fantastic (OK, so I'm not a Glock fanboi) has several internal safeties - along with that strange double trigger thing - it is not supposed to go BOOM! until and unless you pull the trigger, so carrying with the chamber empty to avoid the possibility of an AD (accidental discharge) is not supposed to be necessary.

    Mostly what I see/hear, especially from those new to gun ownership/carry is that they are uber-aware of the lethal potentiality of the instrument and want to be very cautious to prevent an accident. Think of it this way - if you just bought your very first hammer would you carry it with the head detatched until you were going to nail down something? No, a hammer is designed to have the head attached at all times. A modern handgun - even a Glock - is designed to be carried with a round in the chamber.

    Look around the Virginia subforum to find an OC dinner or other event near you. Go and meet some other folks. Become active on the OCDO boards.

    And join VCDL www.vcdl.org !

    stay safe.

  3. #3
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    First off, welcome to the site; we're most pleased to have you with us. You will learn a great deal here on the various forums and threads from some very knowledgeable people.

    A Glock 19 is a fine choice for a first time handgun with one exception. It is a DAO (Double Action Only) design with no settable external safeties. This simply means that the new owner should spend whatever time it takes be become comfortable and confident with his new gun. And due to this fact, I strongly suggest you do a lot of "quiet" training in your home. By quiet training, I am referring to practicing your draw, draw and fire, and trigger discipline and control. The gun is quite fine for drying firing so have at it. You won't hurt anything.

    As for the meat of your question, carrying in full battery (aka Condition One) largely depends upon your comfort level and experience with your gun... and guns in general. Since you have stated that this is your first gun, how much experience do you have with other guns, as in those of friends or rentals? And what kind of holster are you going to be using for your new Glock?

    The most common type of accident that people have had with pistols like the Glock is when drawing the gun, they insert their finger into the trigger guard on the trigger while pulling it out of their holster. It doesn't take much when doing this to apply enough pressure on the trigger to fire the weapon. This is why you really want to do a lot of quiet practice in your home until your draw and fire becomes an automatic act where you are not touching your trigger until the gun has cleared the holster and is nearly on target (assuming there is a target warranting this action).

    How does this equate to your question? Safety. Safety and the assurance that your gun is not going to go BANG until you determine this to occur. So since this is your first gun and you are new to carrying a gun, you probably want to carry with an empty chamber until you have enough training under your belt to be certain enough in your handling of the gun to move on to carrying in full battery; a round in the chamber. With the understanding that a gun not in full battery is a gun that is less than fully useful in an immediate extreme encounter, the likelihood of an accident or negligent discharge is generally considered a greater risk than having to use your gun in a deadly encounter.

    So please learn as much as you can, shoot your new gun frequently until you become both accustomed with its handling and your ability to send a round to target, and do the quiet practicing I mentioned until it becomes second nature to you. It won't take too long before you have enough under your belt to confidently and safely carry your gun in the manner in which it was designed.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  4. #4
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Welcome to OCDO and the world of gun ownership.

    Your question about carrying with a round in the chamber or not is probably only second to which caliber is better with regards to starting open warfare. I happen to belong to the camp that says you will need that 1.3 seconds it takes to rack the slide to do more important stuff - like shooting, moving, figuring out what is happening, etc.

    Since even your plastic fantastic (OK, so I'm not a Glock fanboi) has several internal safeties - along with that strange double trigger thing - it is not supposed to go BOOM! until and unless you pull the trigger, so carrying with the chamber empty to avoid the possibility of an AD (accidental discharge) is not supposed to be necessary.

    Mostly what I see/hear, especially from those new to gun ownership/carry is that they are uber-aware of the lethal potentiality of the instrument and want to be very cautious to prevent an accident. Think of it this way - if you just bought your very first hammer would you carry it with the head detatched until you were going to nail down something? No, a hammer is designed to have the head attached at all times. A modern handgun - even a Glock - is designed to be carried with a round in the chamber.

    Look around the Virginia subforum to find an OC dinner or other event near you. Go and meet some other folks. Become active on the OCDO boards.

    And join VCDL www.vcdl.org !

    stay safe.
    Goods points, all.

    And I too, am in this camp: "I happen to belong to the camp that says you will need that 1.3 seconds it takes to rack the slide to do more important stuff - like shooting, moving, figuring out what is happening, etc." for the reasons stated. I posted what I felt our new member might wish to do to get up to speed with his new gun. Glocks, and the Glock clones, are interesting designs. The concept was to have a sidearm that was safe to carry in full battery right up to the point of having to use it. No external levers, buttons, switches or such for the user to have to think about - just pull and fire was the idea. Problem was, many police departments didn't demand the time and training for this "new" technology so officers were among the first Glock users to experience ND's en masse.

    Like you, I have two views of carrying a defensive arm in full battery and ready to go. 1) Time. As you mentioned, the time it takes to chamber a round and then get into a firing position is precious time lost. 2) Extremes. Suppose your assailant gets off a round and it hits your support hand/arm? Now how easy is it going to be to chamber that round with a damaged "weak" hand/arm? There is a third reason, too. 3) In an extreme encounter with your brain going nuts trying to sort out something that has perhaps never happened to you before, racking a slide might be the last thing you want to be doing. Suppose you have a simple or minor mishap while doing this and a round does not feed? Ooops.

    I agree with your post, not that it makes any difference but for our new member, it is good he hears as much info as possible.
    Last edited by SouthernBoy; 11-21-2010 at 09:09 AM.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  5. #5
    Regular Member USNA69's Avatar
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    Welcome To OCDO, JLui83

    I, too, selected a G19 for my first handgun. And, for the reasons cited by others, I chose to carry with one in the pipe. Yet, I recognized the potential for an unintentional discharge.

    That is why I purchased and installed a Siderlock.

    Nifty animations of its function here: http://www.siderlock.com/?section=features

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    Thanks everyone for your help. I was mainly wondering from the legality stand point if it was ok to have a fully loaded pistol and one in the chamber. With that said, I have my answer to my question.

    I have a blackhawk serpa holster that I will be using with my g19. I'm actually about to step out the door to go to Walmart and pick up some ammo and targets for the range.

    I know I'm not allowed on School property, government buildings, places of worship with my new handgun. What about restaurants? Are we allowed to OC at restuarants that serve alcohol? When I read about this, I got a little bit confused. Can someone shine some light on the matter?

    Thanks again for the help. I will be among these forums a great deal, reading and taking in all the new information.

    Cheeers!

  7. #7
    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JLui83 View Post
    Thanks everyone for your help. I was mainly wondering from the legality stand point if it was ok to have a fully loaded pistol and one in the chamber. With that said, I have my answer to my question.

    I have a blackhawk serpa holster that I will be using with my g19. I'm actually about to step out the door to go to Walmart and pick up some ammo and targets for the range.

    I know I'm not allowed on School property, government buildings, places of worship with my new handgun. What about restaurants? Are we allowed to OC at restuarants that serve alcohol? When I read about this, I got a little bit confused. Can someone shine some light on the matter?

    Thanks again for the help. I will be among these forums a great deal, reading and taking in all the new information.

    Cheeers!
    JLui83

    You can open carry in a restaurant as long as they are 2a friendly. we have open carry dinners around the state all the time. Just look at the stickies at the top of the message list and pick one in your part of the state.

    And welcome aboard

  8. #8
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Yes you may OC in restaurants which are ABC-ON (serve alcohol for consumption on the premises) providing the restaurant is not a posted (no-guns) establishment. If you have a CHP, you may open or conceal carry to those businesses.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  9. #9
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    Thanks for the clarification. Time to go to the range and try out my new pistol!

  10. #10
    Regular Member pyite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JLui83 View Post
    Thanks for the clarification. Time to go to the range and try out my new pistol!
    I too just bought a G19 Gen4. I am left handed and need to be able to reverse the mag release. It is a great shooter.
    I carry with a round in the chamber and just keep my finger off the trigger.

    Happy Shooting!

  11. #11
    Regular Member USNA69's Avatar
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    VA Handgun Law

    Quote Originally Posted by JLui83 View Post
    Thanks everyone for your help. I was mainly wondering from the legality stand point if it was ok to have a fully loaded pistol and one in the chamber. With that said, I have my answer to my question.

    I have a blackhawk serpa holster that I will be using with my g19. I'm actually about to step out the door to go to Walmart and pick up some ammo and targets for the range.

    I know I'm not allowed on School property, government buildings, places of worship with my new handgun. What about restaurants? Are we allowed to OC at restuarants that serve alcohol? When I read about this, I got a little bit confused. Can someone shine some light on the matter?

    Thanks again for the help. I will be among these forums a great deal, reading and taking in all the new information.

    Cheeers!
    JLui83,

    Your questions would indicate that you should thoroughly review VA handgun law, before doing too much OC/CC.

    This link pretty much covers it in one place: http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/virginia.pdf

    Bring any questions back here.

    Once you have digested all that, the discussions on OCDO will make much more sense and be of more value to you.

  12. #12
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Welcome to the site!

    Your question has been answered so I'll throw another 0.02 in.

    First, I would recommend against OC'ing to the range. A handgun is intended as a defensive weapon but it's dangerous to carry one that hasn't been fired. You don't even know for sure it will fire or if it has a problem that could cause a jam after the first shot.
    It's like deer hunting before you sight in the scope.

    Second, I would strongly suggest you get some instruction. You can either take a class or a member here will be happy to go to the range with you one day.

    Hope you enjoy the Glock!

  13. #13
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    Yes, it's legal, subject to the same restrictions as per any other handgun, as long as you don't have a 20+round magazine in certain cities. Note that it's the magazine itself that has to hold at least twenty-one rounds, the statute does not prohibit a twenty-round magazine with one in the pipe (20+1), since the round in the chamber has nothing to do with magazine capacity. The City of Alexandria is one of those cities. Va. Code 18.2-287.4.

  14. #14
    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Glad to see peter nap beat me to it. Recommend AGAINST open carrying - frankly, or even loading - a new firearm before you've taken it to the range and fired it. You want to know how it's going to behave before you have to use it to defend your life.

    A couple of weeks ago I bought a new gun I hope will become my primary carry gun. Haven't had time to take it to the range yet, so it's still in the case.

    I guess I can understand - maybe any gun is better than no gun if SHTF - but I'd fire it first. And I don't know about Glocks (won't own one, for purely emotional reasons) but most firearms need at least a few rounds through them to break them in.

  15. #15
    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Yes, it's legal, subject to the same restrictions as per any other handgun, as long as you don't have a 20+round magazine in certain cities. Note that it's the magazine itself that has to hold at least twenty-one rounds, the statute does not prohibit a twenty-round magazine with one in the pipe (20+1), since the round in the chamber has nothing to do with magazine capacity. The City of Alexandria is one of those cities. Va. Code 18.2-287.4.
    user, I thought that statute was subject to preemption. Or is it only for those with CHL? Or have I seriously misunderstood what Alexandria can do?

  16. #16
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tess View Post
    user, I thought that statute was subject to preemption. Or is it only for those with CHL? Or have I seriously misunderstood what Alexandria can do?
    Tess, preemption in essence says only the General Assembly can regulate the carry, etc.

    Since the General Assembly did enact that statute and have not seen fit to reverse it, it is legal for the City to do it.

  17. #17
    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JLui83 View Post
    I know I'm not allowed on School property, government buildings, places of worship with my new handgun. What about restaurants? Are we allowed to OC at restuarants that serve alcohol? When I read about this, I got a little bit confused. Can someone shine some light on the matter?
    We are not prohibited from doing so by the Virginia Code. I can count the restaurants I know which prohibit firearms on one hand. Until this last July it was illegal to CC into restaurants that serve alcohol... I only bring this up because nobody has yet mentioned the VCDL. It was the organization largely responsible for the change. You should consider joining as many consider it the best way to support gun rights here in Virginia.

    ...and now I see that Skid brought it up in the first post.

    FYI, this is how I carry mine:
    Last edited by t33j; 11-21-2010 at 05:11 PM.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

  18. #18
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    Thanks everyone for the information. Today I did NOT end up OC to walmart or the range. I did however fire at the range 200 rounds with no hiccups. I've shot guns before, I just never owned one myself. I will read over the PDF file that USNA69 provided (Thank you).

    I appreciate everyone's help again.

  19. #19
    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by t33j View Post
    We are not prohibited from doing so by the Virginia Code. I can count the restaurants I know which prohibit firearms on one hand. Until this last July it was illegal to CC into restaurants that serve alcohol... I only bring this up because nobody has yet mentioned the VCDL. It was the organization largely responsible for the change. You should consider joining as many consider it the best way to support gun rights here in Virginia.

    ...and now I see that Skid brought it up in the first post.

    FYI, this is how I carry mine:
    Isn't it easier when you wear the pants?

  20. #20
    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    Isn't it easier when you wear the pants?

    They happened to be off at the time, and the picture wasn't taken with the subject of this thread in mind. I only used this one because I realized that I don't have any good ones of myself carrying...
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

  21. #21
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    JLui83 -

    if you are interested, we do a number of classes that you may be interested in, and that may answer some of your questions.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

  22. #22
    Regular Member Uber_Olafsun's Avatar
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    Join VCDL and it helps to carry some of their info cards around with you. I live in Alexandria and just the other day at taco bell a father and his kids started talking to me about guns and how we wad looking to get a .22 for his kids to learn to fire. The cards help out when somebody is amazed you can carry and it gives them some sources of information. A little knowledge can be a good thing.

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