New pro second amendment group !!!!

autosurgeon said:

Methinks that far too many in this thread are jumping to conclusions on both sides.

Also just BC a gun rights group or any group is not moving in the direction you want it to does not mean it is going to the dogs. It just means you and the group have divergent ideas. IMOP there is nothing wrong with a group of people who are unhappy or feel that a group is not doing what they want organizing their own group. That is the beauty of this country we have the freedom to do so!

Also this would be the place to post such an announcement as this group has no ties to any state group other than being a place to meet and talk.

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Agreed, which is why I asked the posts to be clarified as to their meaning or intent. Granted, Cabman's comment about MOC may have been a bad choice; but understandable given the nature of the comment.

If the members of this state support individual rights as claimed; why are so many posts that don't "fit" the groups ideals, met with negative comments and flame posts? Practice what we preach comes to mind but doesn't seem to be applied too much lately.
I support ANY individual person, group, organization that stands to fight for our rights in any form. I may not agree with their methods but I can support their cause without being involved with the group.

JMO...as usual

cabman1 said:

I cant believe the very first post after mine was an officer of a pro 2nd amendment group being sarcastic!!!!

M.O.C. isnt what it once was and never will be again!!!

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Whoa! Where did MOC come in here? This is OCDO, my friend.

TheQ said:

Whoa! Where did MOC come in here? This is OCDO, my friend.

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Read the second post. This was all started by the reply made; by an MOC board member. Cabman based his comment on that reply.

TheQ said:

Whoa! Where did MOC come in here? This is OCDO, my friend.

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I believe Cabman made the reference to MOC because one of their officers (Secretary) made what appears to be a negative comment. SOME may see that an officer that represents an organization, represents said organization at all times.

cabman1 said:

the 535 is what i weighed in today!!!!!for a total of 155 pounds gone!!!

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An off-topic Way To Go! from me. I've struggled with weight most of my life and can appreciate the difficulties...big respect from me for turning it around.

An on-topic Way To Go! for the new gun group. Let's hit 'em from all sides

Bronson

T Vance said:

I believe Cabman made the reference to MOC because one of their officers (Secretary) made what appears to be a negative comment. SOME may see that an officer that represents an organization, represents said organization at all times.

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In some respects yes. If you have your title to another group on this forum, would your posts not be perceived as related to that group?

Kinda like is preached on here all the time, i.e. an individual who OC's in a negative way has an impact on the perception of ALL the people who OC?

You lost 155 wow that's great keep up the good work...

cabman1 said:

I know I was like man i wanna bet him but couldnt find it in me to loose money!!!

Ive been retired for 6 months and have worked harder in the last 6 months then I ever have......

the 535 is what i weighed in today!!!!!for a total of 155 pounds gone!!!

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cabman1 said:

I know I was like man i wanna bet him but couldnt find it in me to loose money!!!

Ive been retired for 6 months and have worked harder in the last 6 months then I ever have......

the 535 is what i weighed in today!!!!!for a total of 155 pounds gone!!!

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Way to go man. Keep in touch. Let's do coffee one of these days.

cabman1 said:

I know I was like man i wanna bet him but couldnt find it in me to loose money!!!

Ive been retired for 6 months and have worked harder in the last 6 months then I ever have......

the 535 is what i weighed in today!!!!!for a total of 155 pounds gone!!!

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535 after 155 loss?
good lord

Imagine what could be accomplished if all these org's stood together, united, for the single cause of firearms rights.

http://CLSD.OCDO.MGO.SAFR.MCRGO.MOC.NRA.GOA.SAF.com

I know it would never happen, so I wish you the best of luck with your new org.

Gordon has done a great job making changes and loosing weight. It doesn't matter where he was, it matters where he is going and that is in the right direction.

This thread was started a bit premature, but now that it's out....

We started Citizens League for Self Defense, Inc. (CLSD) The main focus will be to work state and local governments to recognize and abide by the Constitution in regards to the right to bear arms. We will also continue to educate citizens on their right to self defense and lawful open carry. We have very high expectations for this organization and have several projects in the works already that should be wrapped up very soon.

As I said this was all let out of the bag a bit early so the website isn't completely finished but if you would like to check it out you can visit www.citizensleaguesd.com and you can also join our facebook page at http://www.facebook.com/pages/Citizens-League-For-Self-Defense/165244283515908

CLSD board of directors

President - John Roshek
V.P. - open
Secretary - Jerry Brewer
Treasurer - open

We are always looking for volunteers and members. Thank you to those of you who have made comments in show of support! We are all in this together.

G22 said:

Imagine what could be accomplished if all these org's stood together, united, for the single cause of firearms rights.

http://CLSD.OCDO.MGO.SAFR.MCRGO.MOC.NRA.GOA.SAF.com

I know it would never happen, so I wish you the best of luck with your new org.

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Never say never

T Vance said:

Agreed...but you may also want to include the Secretary of MOC's post (the 2nd post in this thread) with your comment above. Looks like he is prematurely judging this new 2A group and assuming the negative about them when he knows nothing of this new group. In other words it sounds like he is prejudice.

IF he is prejudice against things such as gun groups, it makes me wonder what other people/things he is prejudice of...

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I stand by my statement as written.

A person does not lose their freedom of speech or expression on a third-party organization/website, within it's established rules, because they are an officer of some other organization/website. NHCGRPR45 is well within his rights and I support him. If you have further questions, I suggest you ask him directly.

I have no issue about other Rights Groups being established, so long as there is a defined need and stated goals to address the need. As to the organization's focus stated by Generaldet, there are multiple groups that are already working towards these same goals (MOC, OCDO, MGO, etc). I could ask why not work within these existing groups, but I believe I already know the answer.

Most of the people here on this thread that have come to voice support for this new Rights Group have some sort of issue in the past with MOC and/or OCDO. I have read about it and I have heard it first-hand on TeamSpeak. IMO, this new group is being started due to these personal issues.

I wish you the best and hope you are able to make a difference. Please consider working with other "like-minded" organizations instead of deriding them and those who support them.

G22 said:

Imagine what could be accomplished if all these org's stood together, united, for the single cause of firearms rights.

http://CLSD.OCDO.MGO.SAFR.MCRGO.MOC.NRA.GOA.SAF.com

I know it would never happen, so I wish you the best of luck with your new org.

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I am not sure that it would never happen, but it can be difficult to get these groups to play nice in the sandbox together.

I was very pleased to see MOC, OCDO, and MGO (in no particular order) work together on the Royal Oak Arts, Beats, & Eats No Firearms Contract Issue. I would hope to see more of the same in the future.

History has shown us that more often than not that multiple groups, businesses, corporations give we the people more choices to let our voice be heard. Rarely does it work the other way. There are some groups I will not join due to severe philosophical differences and the N.R.A. is one I ended my membership with. Their constant bargaining away our rights finally ended the relationship. The whole machine gun NFA stupidity where the NRA wanted to surrender those rights to get a little on another area where we fully had the Constitutional authority to reject controls on was beyond the ale for me. I welcome another group and experience roves that more will usually equal competition for my rights. These groups now must fight a little harder for my money, and they will have to show me where they will return us to the Constitutional mindset and freedoms we lost.

Also over time groups find common ground and heal differences and merge with each other, and I have no problem with that so long as they don't compromise my rights in the process. Also the media attacks its favorite targets with vigor and its far harder for the media to demonize 200 organizations than only one organization.

I welcome a new player and hopefully they will not compromise like so many others have and will do because they have become bloated bureaucracies drunk on the monies of the gun owners who join them.

PDinDetroit said:

I stand by my statement as written.

A person does not lose their freedom of speech or expression on a third-party organization/website, within it's established rules, because they are an officer of some other organization/website. NHCGRPR45 is well within his rights and I support him. If you have further questions, I suggest you ask him directly.

I have no issue about other Rights Groups being established, so long as there is a defined need and stated goals to address the need. As to the organization's focus stated by Generaldet, there are multiple groups that are already working towards these same goals (MOC, OCDO, MGO, etc). I could ask why not work within these existing groups, but I believe I already know the answer.

Most of the people here on this thread that have come to voice support for this new Rights Group have some sort of issue in the past with MOC and/or OCDO. I have read about it and I have heard it first-hand on TeamSpeak. IMO, this new group is being started due to these personal issues.

I wish you the best and hope you are able to make a difference. Please consider working with other "like-minded" organizations instead of deriding them and those who support them.

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Bailenforcer said:

History has shown us that more often than not that multiple groups, businesses, corporations give we the people more choices to let our voice be heard. Rarely does it work the other way. There are some groups I will not join due to severe philosophical differences and the N.R.A. is one I ended my membership with. Their constant bargaining away our rights finally ended the relationship. The whole machine gun NFA stupidity where the NRA wanted to surrender those rights to get a little on another area where we fully had the Constitutional authority to reject controls on was beyond the ale for me. I welcome another group and experience roves that more will usually equal competition for my rights. These groups now must fight a little harder for my money, and they will have to show me where they will return us to the Constitutional mindset and freedoms we lost.

Also over time groups find common ground and heal differences and merge with each other, and I have no problem with that so long as they don't compromise my rights in the process. Also the media attacks its favorite targets with vigor and its far harder for the media to demonize 200 organizations than only one organization.

I welcome a new player and hopefully they will not compromise like so many others have and will do because they have become bloated bureaucracies drunk on the monies of the gun owners who join them.

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This is my hope (bolded above).

Congratulations on forming a new group. I think that as long as the purposes are more
than NOT being some other group... ie an organization formed to compete against another with the same goals because of some perceived slight, the more the better. My only suggestion would be that we continue to remember that this form of communication is limited and we should try to take anything we perceive to be a subtle attack with a grain of salt and assume that people are writing what they post with the best of intentions. I'm all for a reasoned arguement about most things but this "attack-counterattack" with some personal putdowns thrown in the mix needs to stop.
That being said, I wish all groups working for the furtherance of the acceptance of firearms among the citizens of Michigan unlimited and unqualified success.

Thank you Dr. Todd, I appreciate the comments. I also agree with you 100% I assure you that "competition" has nothing to do with it. Nor do "feelings" of any kind. This was a decision I made based on wanting to help further our rights in the manner thought I felt best. Simply put, this is what I wanted to choose for a path in life and to think anything else was involved is a bit presumptuous. Especially when all anyone has to do is just pm me and ask me personally. I hope that puts this to rest.

Thanks again to everyone for all the well wishes. I look forward to the future and this organization accomplishing great things.

Generaldet said:

Thank you Dr. Todd, I appreciate the comments. I also agree with you 100% I assure you that "competition" has nothing to do with it. Nor do "feelings" of any kind. This was a decision I made based on wanting to help further our rights in the manner thought I felt best. Simply put, this is what I wanted to choose for a path in life and to think anything else was involved is a bit presumptuous. Especially when all anyone has to do is just pm me and ask me personally. I hope that puts this to rest.

Thanks again to everyone for all the well wishes. I look forward to the future and this organization accomplishing great things.

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PM Sent.

To date, I see nothing "new" about this "new group". Have information to the contrary? I am all "EARS"...

PDinDetroit said:

PM Sent.

To date, I see nothing "new" about this "new group". Have information to the contrary? I am all "EARS"...

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Gun right groups will almost always have overlapping goals. It's how you accomplish those goals that vary.