Is the "Virginia Tuck" OC or CC?

macfly · Nov 23, 2010

Hey all, I was talking to some guys who work at the local gun shop about what is and isnt considered OC. I was surprised to hear the response that it is NOT considered OC if you have a IWB holster but have the butt of the gun showing out in front of a tucked in shirt. I thought that was the whole point of the 'virginia tuck'?!
Is this actually considered concealed? yes the barrel is in the waist but if the but is sticking up and is clearly visible isnt that showing that you are not hiding it?

ed · Nov 23, 2010

macfly said:
Hey all, I was talking to some guys who work at the local gun shop about what is and isnt considered OC. I was surprised to hear the response that it is NOT considered OC if you have a IWB holster but have the butt of the gun showing out in front of a tucked in shirt. I thought that was the whole point of the 'virginia tuck'?!
Is this actually considered concealed? yes the barrel is in the waist but if the but is sticking up and is clearly visible isnt that showing that you are not hiding it?

OC

TFred · Nov 23, 2010

If you can tell it's a gun, then by literal definition, it's Open Carry. See the CHP code.

A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation...

For the purpose of this section, a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature.

TFred

macfly · Nov 23, 2010

Thats what I thought but every worker at the store insisted it was CC because 'the whole gun/holster has to be visible.'
good to know. I have a Tucker Silent Thunder holster that I really love and would love to use this as my daily OC holster.

swinokur · Nov 23, 2010

More incorrect info from a gun shop. I carry with an IWB either a Supertuck, MTAC or a Tucker The Answer all the time. I think the VA law say "discernable" I'd say the butt of a gun sticking out of your pants meets that definition.

Ric in Richmond · Nov 23, 2010

There is no need to advertise that you have a gun!!

When the average joe looks at you they do not need to be able to "see" the gun, but it cannot be hidden.

When the average joe looks where your gun is carried they should be able to see immediately that it is a gun.

There is a difference between looking and seeing, just like listening and hearing. Most of us look without seeing and listen without hearing.

I carry that way almost every day, but with a CHP. 95% of average joes never notice the gun, but no average joe would mistake it for anything BUT a gun if they see it.

TFred · Nov 23, 2010

swinokur said:
More incorrect info from a gun shop. I carry with an IWB either a Supertuck, MTAC or a Tucker The Answer all the time. I think the VA law say "discernable" I'd say the butt of a gun sticking out of your pants meets that definition.

See the link in my earlier post... no instance of "discernible" in the code.

TFred

ed · Nov 23, 2010

swinokur said:
More incorrect info from a gun shop. I carry with an IWB either a Supertuck, MTAC or a Tucker The Answer all the time. I think the VA law say "discernable" I'd say the butt of a gun sticking out of your pants meets that definition.

I can't find the article.. but there WAS a guy arrested (and prosecuted?) for carrying "concealed" while wearing a belt buckle similar to this:

SouthernBoy · Nov 23, 2010

macfly said:
Thats what I thought but every worker at the store insisted it was CC because 'the whole gun/holster has to be visible.'
good to know. I have a Tucker Silent Thunder holster that I really love and would love to use this as my daily OC holster.

It is a well known fact among gun culture people that those who work in gun stores/shops are not necessarily well versed in the law, in tactics, in ammunition performance, and in a host of other things related to firearms. This by no means is to say all of them fall into this mold... quite the contrary. There most certainly are some very apt and informed people who do work in gun shops. But enough ill-informed people do work in these places that do give customers who are not educated in these areas erroneous information because they haven't a clue about that which they speak. And these are the ones who will try their damnedest to come across as all knowing and wise, probably to puff up their own egos at the expense of dispensing garbage. The problem then becomes trying to find gun shops/stores with quality employees who know their craft AND are not opposed to saying, "I don't know" when they don't.

Please do note that I said that, "This by no means is to say all of them fall into this mold". I just wanted to reiterate this fact.

peter nap · Nov 23, 2010

ed said:
I can't find the article.. but there WAS a guy arrested (and prosecuted?) for carrying "concealed" while wearing a belt buckle similar to this:

That's a different situation Ed. The court said it was disguised to look like a belt buckle.

Don't get legal advice from the Police, Gun shop employees, Service Station Attendants or McDonalds Employees.

swinokur · Nov 23, 2010

TFred said:
See the link in my earlier post... no instance of "discernible" in the code.

TFred

How about common observation?

:lol:

user · Nov 23, 2010

Yeah, if you ever get arrested, make sure you ask those guys in the gun shop to represent you at trial.

zoom6zoom · Nov 23, 2010

I'm surprised they didn't also tell you that it had to be visible from three sides.

Two kinds of folks I never ask about gun laws... guns shop employees, and cops. Granted, there are those in the know, but as a class they are not a great resource.

peter nap · Nov 23, 2010

zoom6zoom said:
I'm surprised they didn't also tell you that it had to be visible from three sides.

Two kinds of folks I never ask about gun laws... guns shop employees, and cops. Granted, there are those in the know, but as a class they are not a great resource.

I think you'll find that a lot of gun shop employees get their information from cops who hang around and talk shop. The blind leading the blind.

Grapeshot · Nov 23, 2010

Would be very interested to know what gun shop exactly - not to give them any grief, but to allow the opportunity to educate them properly and with support data/cites.

This way we might turn a poor information source into a positive one.
This is an area in which we should shine.

vt800c · Nov 24, 2010

ed said:

Nice! A chromed NAA whth beautiful grips! Where can I find one?

macfly · Nov 24, 2010

The store in question was Loudoun Guns in Leesburg. They were pretty nice and helpful with everything else but this question got me confused because they were pretty insistent that IWB would be considered concealed carry or at best questionable by cops.

ProShooter · Nov 24, 2010

macfly said:
they were pretty insistent that IWB would be considered concealed carry or at best questionable by cops.

As a gun store that probably sells thousands of holsters, their answer doesn't surprise me. That is because IWB was originally designed and intended as a concealment holster. Some say that tucking the shirt behind the grip and exposing the grip means that it is no longer concealed. We've been down this road before arguing about it. Some IWB holsters sit lower in the pants than others and it may be easier to see the gun in some holsters.

I say that if you need/want to OC, do it in a holster that avoids any grey area.

ed · Nov 24, 2010

Postcard Sent

macfly said:
The store in question was Loudoun Guns in Leesburg. They were pretty nice and helpful with everything else but this question got me confused because they were pretty insistent that IWB would be considered concealed carry or at best questionable by cops.

I too am a customer of Loudoun Guns, so I sent them a postcard.

macfly · Nov 25, 2010

Ha! great. guess I will be getting an earful if i step back in there...

Is the "Virginia Tuck" OC or CC?

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