Is the "Virginia Tuck" OC or CC?

macfly said:

Hey all, I was talking to some guys who work at the local gun shop about what is and isnt considered OC. I was surprised to hear the response that it is NOT considered OC if you have a IWB holster but have the butt of the gun showing out in front of a tucked in shirt. I thought that was the whole point of the 'virginia tuck'?!
Is this actually considered concealed? yes the barrel is in the waist but if the but is sticking up and is clearly visible isnt that showing that you are not hiding it?

Click to expand...

Well, considering you got the information from the guys at the local gunshop, I'm not surprised you got BAD information.

If the gun is NOT hidden from common observation (i.e. IWB with the grip sticking out), and can be ID'd as a gun...it's Open Carrying.

I carried into restaurants and in public via the "VA tuck"....it is NOT concealed.

Next time, confuse the gun store lawyers and ask them how OC is defined in the VA code
(hint: none exists...but ask them to look it up anyway)

macfly said:

Ha! great. guess I will be getting an earful if i step back in there...

Click to expand...

I would guess not.. I signed my name and they could contact me directly.. They might even know me.. I shop there, I just don't ask them gun law questions. I would imagine that they are set in their grove and spew the same lines to everyone that comes on.. so until someone derails wrong information they will continue with it. So it wont be.. "Ahh that macfly guy is the one that "told" on us.." it will be like.. (I hope) wow.. we have told hundreds and hundreds of customers wrong information and now we can correct one piece of our shpeel.

yeah, i was just joking. its better for them to know. there were a few moments about questions i asked that made me just look with blank stare because the answer was obviously wrong. but hey, they are just people too.
IMHO its better to just admit you arent sure of something than to come across like there is no way you are wrong.

macfly said:

yeah, i was just joking. its better for them to know. there were a few moments about questions i asked that made me just look with blank stare because the answer was obviously wrong. but hey, they are just people too.
IMHO its better to just admit you arent sure of something than to come across like there is no way you are wrong.

Click to expand...

Everybody needs some help/education sometimes. Those whose daily routines involve constant association with any particular tool/element, soon fall into the belief that they are experts in dispensing knowledge, but faulty information repeated often enough..........is still faulty.

Whether they are LEOs, gun shop employees, or posters here like myself, all make mistakes - to the point that bad info is passed on to others occasionally. That is part of the reason why we are collectively so good at what we do - research, education, getting our facts straight. I am reminded of the old cliche, "I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken."

Dispensing education/knowledge should not be a personal affront and is best done with a smile, a friendly gesture, to let the listener know that you are not attacking them. You are doing them (and us) a valuable service.

We all do carry VCDL information cards (the current blue ones) with us at all times, right?

Grapeshot said:

We all do carry VCDL information cards (the current blue ones) with us at all times, right?

Click to expand...

Too big for my liking, so I made my own OC cards on regular business card size... also available free for the asking.

Grapeshot said:

We all do carry VCDL information cards (the current blue ones) with us at all times, right?

Click to expand...

ed said:

Too big for my liking, so I made my own OC cards on regular business card size... also available free for the asking.

Click to expand...

Whatever means is used to support the information given is good.

Incidentally, the VCDL blue card folds nicely in half and becomes business card size.

ed said:

Too big for my liking, so I made my own OC cards on regular business card size... also available free for the asking.

Click to expand...

Ed, could you clear up some confusion about a few things.

Your cards say they are "Ed's" cards...or at least the last one I saw said that.
The GSL stickers are trademarked in your name.

There seem to be a lot of different groups owning the same concept VCDL developed.

While this isn't any of my business, it does seem confusing to people who just want to be part of the wave. I can't help thinking this is why VCDL veered from it's basic course several years ago.

If the cards are for the common good and open for all to use freely, why bother to identify yourself as the owner of virtually the same piece of literature VCDL is and has produced?

There seems to be a competition between Virginia Citizens Defense League and Ed's Defense League.:uhoh:

As far as cost, VCDL may charge for their cards but whenever I need a few, an oversize stack is given free.

peter nap said:

Ed, could you clear up some confusion about a few things.

Your cards say they are "Ed's" cards...or at least the last one I saw said that.
The GSL stickers are trademarked in your name.

There seem to be a lot of different groups owning the same concept VCDL developed.

While this isn't any of my business, it does seem confusing to people who just want to be part of the wave. I can't help thinking this is why VCDL veered from it's basic course several years ago.

If the cards are for the common good and open for all to use freely, why bother to identify yourself as the owner of virtually the same piece of literature VCDL is and has produced?

There seems to be a competition between Virginia Citizens Defense League and Ed's Defense League.:uhoh:

As far as cost, VCDL may charge for their cards but whenever I need a few, an oversize stack is given free.

Click to expand...

Sure. I will clear it up.

I agree with much of what VCDL says and does, but not 100%. We are grass roots and while not all of my actions are approved (or liked?) they are my actions. I get praise from some and no so much praise from others. In addition to supporting "carry" (vcdl) I also support OpenCarry (litter pick-up and Open Carry dinners.. not VCDL events).

I am not sure who was first with the "cards" but I created cards for ME to hand out. Others asked for them so I mass produced them. My cards were geared torwards OPEN CARRY.. the VCDL cards were geared more to "carry".

I saw some disparaging signage years ago in ref to the GSL and checked to see if GSL was registered. It was not. I suggested to VCDL that they register GUNS Save Lives. They did not do so. So I did. I registered GSL to protect the mark. Not to keep it from VCDL. VCDL knew that I had done so as I told them on more than one occasion. The moment the registration was complete, I immidiately sent written notification to VCDL and at least 30 other organizations explaining that the mark is now registered and they they are FREE to use it as much as they want for NO fee as long as they fight FOR gun rights and not use the mark AGAINST gun rights.

There is no competition between VCDL and I. We are on the same team. I recruit member after member on my own and over 20 at this last gun show. I developed and manage VCDL member discount program, I am going to be giving away a 50 cal rifle next year to a VCDL member and I run some of the facebook pages promoting VCDL. I also expect that in 2011 the transfer of GSL registered trademark to VCDL to have been completed.

Ed

Ed, I don't know if I've ever said it, but you are "da man"!!!

Thank you for your devotion, service, and creativity. You are an exemplar for us all in the 2A movement.

Thank you!

Dreamer said:

Ed, I don't know if I've ever said it, but you are "da man"!!!

Thank you for your devotion, service, and creativity. You are an exemplar for us all in the 2A movement.

Thank you!

Click to expand...

Thanks Dreamer. I do what I can.

We ALL can do things.. we can all recruit more VCDL members and ask existing "VCDL email Alert Only" to become paid members.. by showing up on Lobby day and talking to legislatures. By taking action EVER TIME a vcdl action alert comes out asking you to contact your delegate. By showing up at Open Carry Litter pick-ups, lunches, meetings and dinners and bringing new people to same. We need to grow the base membership of VCDL, GOA, NRA, OCDO, etc.. collectively to get what we all want.

Unfortunately, here in Michigan, carrying that way without a CPL could get you a court date. Thing is, part of the reason I prefer OC to CC, is I HATE IWB type carry. I do it when I have to, but fortunately that's not very often.

And I just love the pistol in a belt buckle. I know a judge and a few cops who would love to have one, and a prosecutor or two who'd get their panties in a wad over trying to figure out if they could prosecute the person carrying it.

ed said:

I too am a customer of Loudoun Guns, so I sent them a postcard.

Click to expand...

Big Gay Al said:

Unfortunately, here in Michigan, carrying that way without a CPL could get you a court date. Thing is, part of the reason I prefer OC to CC, is I HATE IWB type carry. I do it when I have to, but fortunately that's not very often.

And I just love the pistol in a belt buckle. I know a judge and a few cops who would love to have one, and a prosecutor or two who'd get their panties in a wad over trying to figure out if they could prosecute the person carrying it.

Click to expand...

In Virginia, the belt buckel pistol is of a "deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature" and would require a CHP to be legal.

http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-308.HTM

Grapeshot said:

In Virginia, the belt buckel pistol is of a "deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature" and would require a CHP to be legal.

http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-308.HTM

Click to expand...

Yep and the "Tuck" refers to tucking your jacket behind the gun. It doesn't matter if it's an IWB or OWB holster.

Grapeshot and I have discussed having a jacket altered with a slit down the right side to eliminate the need to "Tuck".

peter nap said:

Yep and the "Tuck" refers to tucking your jacket behind the gun. It doesn't matter if it's an IWB or OWB holster.

Grapeshot and I have discussed having a jacket altered with a slit down the right side to eliminate the need to "Tuck".

Click to expand...

It should be possible. Some police jackets are made that way for the very same reason.

Grapeshot said:

In Virginia, the belt buckel pistol is of a "deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature" and would require a CHP to be legal.

http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-308.HTM

Click to expand...

That figures.

peter nap said:

Yep and the "Tuck" refers to tucking your jacket behind the gun. It doesn't matter if it's an IWB or OWB holster.

Grapeshot and I have discussed having a jacket altered with a slit down the right side to eliminate the need to "Tuck".

Click to expand...

Or just buy a jacket cut at the waist.

Years ago I was trying to corner two loose hogs on the highway. I had my SA revolver on my hip with my coat over it. A trooper stopped to help and I know he saw the gun, and the CC law was not in affect at the time. He never said a word, I guessed that he assumed that I threw on the coat out of the house to get them. If so he would have been correct. The coat would never have stayed tucked wrangling the hogs.

Originally Posted by peter nap
Yep and the "Tuck" refers to tucking your jacket behind the gun. It doesn't matter if it's an IWB or OWB holster.

Grapeshot and I have discussed having a jacket altered with a slit down the right side to eliminate the need to "Tuck".

Click to expand...

Big Gay Al said:

It should be possible. Some police jackets are made that way for the very same reason.

Click to expand...

My newest design would utilize neither a zipper nor velcro, but instead a tab w/magnet at the bottom.


May have to make some other adaptation for this one.
http://www.saddleupaussie.com/kakadu-australian-oilskins.html

Grapeshot said:

My newest design would utilize neither a zipper nor velcro, but instead a tab w/magnet at the bottom.


May have to make some other adaptation for this one.
http://www.saddleupaussie.com/kakadu-australian-oilskins.html

Click to expand...

Why bother thinking about it when the (an) answer has been out there since the days of the real cowboys? A slit (not a pass-through pocket) that allowed the holster to be outside but could easily and quickly, even while on horseback, be returned inside. The slit had a storm flap.

And I'm glad to see that you and Peter Nap are finally discussing what I have been recommending since the subject of OCing in winter first came up. For anybody in the Richmond area, there is a tailor in the shopping center where Party City is that has done the alteration for me on a number of jackets. Very reasonable prices back when I had the work done - don't know what inflation has done to that. (10340 Midlothian Turnpike. And to show I'm becoming a true Richmonder - it's located next door to where the credit union used to be (near the steakhouse))

stay safe.

Well,,,

Big Gay Al said:

And I just love the pistol in a belt buckle. I know a judge and a few cops who would love to have one, and a prosecutor or two who'd get their panties in a wad over trying to figure out if they could prosecute the person carrying it.

Click to expand...

Grapeshot said:

In Virginia, the belt buckel pistol is of a "deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature" and would require a CHP to be legal.

http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-308.HTM

Click to expand...

This would be a belt buckle pistol that would require a CPL...




i would show you a real belt buckle pistol, but I cant get photobucket to work right..
you may have seen it before,, a rusty brown Tanfoglio GT380 in a machine holder, carried where the buckle would be, but
the real belt buckle is off to the side at the 10 Oclock position,,, sooo its not a buckle...

skidmark said:

Why bother thinking about it when the (an) answer has been out there since the days of the real cowboys? A slit (not a pass-through pocket) that allowed the holster to be outside but could easily and quickly, even while on horseback, be returned inside. The slit had a storm flap.

And I'm glad to see that you and Peter Nap are finally discussing what I have been recommending since the subject of OCing in winter first came up. For anybody in the Richmond area, there is a tailor in the shopping center where Party City is that has done the alteration for me on a number of jackets. Very reasonable prices back when I had the work done - don't know what inflation has done to that. (10340 Midlothian Turnpike. And to show I'm becoming a true Richmonder - it's located next door to where the credit union used to be (near the steakhouse))

stay safe.

Click to expand...

Oh...You had that idea at some point.
I just thought of it the other day while I was reviewing how I invented printer ink.
You can't expect me to go through all the winter notes I have.