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Thread: Red Rock Canyon carry answer

  1. #1
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    Red Rock Canyon carry answer

    After sending a email several times over the last few weeks i got this today.
    I wish they had put a name to it. So I am responding asking for a name and contact info. Also I would still think OC would be ok without a permit.


    From: NV_LVFO_Webmail@blm.gov
    Subject: Re: Red Rock Question
    Date: November 23, 2010 11:31:40 AM PST
    To: s <@me.com>


    Thanks for your interest in Red Rock Canyon.

    Folks who have concealed weapon permits are allowed to carry their weapons
    in Red Rock Canyon National Conservation Area while following State of
    Nevada laws. However, the weapons are not allowed in federal buildings
    (i.e. visitor center.)

    Hope this helps!

  2. #2
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    If Red Rock Canyon is a national park, and Nevada law does not abn unlicensed open carry in National parks, then yes, you can also open carry.

  3. #3
    Regular Member The Big Guy's Avatar
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    I have open carried several times in Red Rock with no problems.

    TBG

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If Red Rock Canyon is a national park, and Nevada law does not abn unlicensed open carry in National parks, then yes, you can also open carry.
    Red rock is a national preserve

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    Visitors center is a federal building? Do they have metal detectors and/or signs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lostlittlerobot View Post
    Visitors center is a federal building? Do they have metal detectors and/or signs?
    No they do not have those. They are a federal building though. As it is on BLM land. Red Rock is not a sate run place it is a fed.

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    for a fed blgng to be off limits

    it needs to be posted, not posted clearly, guns are legal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrsjhnsn View Post
    it needs to be posted, not posted clearly, guns are legal.
    Cite please.

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    Red Rock Visitor Center

    Quote Originally Posted by chrsjhnsn View Post
    it needs to be posted, not posted clearly, guns are legal.
    OnThanksgiving day I CCW inside of the Visitor Center after I checked both entrances and couldn't find any signs or stickers anywhere. So I stepped inside and spent 20 min with my kids, still questioning in my head, if with it being a federal building I might still be in trouble. Like I said, no metal detector, no sign regarding firearms, only a sign saying no food or drinks. Any information about the visitor center will be appreciated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BionicJumpy View Post
    OnThanksgiving day I CCW inside of the Visitor Center after I checked both entrances and couldn't find any signs or stickers anywhere. So I stepped inside and spent 20 min with my kids, still questioning in my head, if with it being a federal building I might still be in trouble. Like I said, no metal detector, no sign regarding firearms, only a sign saying no food or drinks. Any information about the visitor center will be appreciated.
    I seem to remember reading the specific federal statute regarding federal building and my memory tells me that if it ain't posted on each entrance then that prohibition CAN'T be enforced UNLESS they can prove that you knew about it anyway.... seem just a little weasel like to me but here is a link to the federal code....
    the part the prohibits prosecution is (h)

    http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/930.html

    (d)(3) talks about "other lawful reasons" and I still say that SELF DEFENSE IS A LAWFUL REASON especially since the SCOTUS decisions in Heller and McDonald!
    Last edited by JoeSparky; 11-28-2010 at 02:37 AM.

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    Does the word "knowingly" in the fed. statute apply to the knowledge that it is a fed. building? I had no idea a visitors center could be a federal building. Post cards and stuff = no gun zone? I don't get why guns are banned there...

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Federal facility has been defined as a place where federal employees usually carry out their assigned duties. The term "building" gets even more specific. For instance, a stand-alone restroom would not be a federal facility or building for the purposes of prohibiting possession of guns there because no federal employeeusually carries out their duties there - unless somewhere they have hired folks to hand you paper towels after you have washed your hands.

    And as for entering federal buildings - read this part of 18 USC 44, Section 930:
    (h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.
    How are they going to prove "actual notice"? What with the way laws are mis-cited and mis-interpreted on gun boards, it would be hard to say anyone knew what they were talking about, or that what they read somewhere was accurate. :>)

    stay safe.

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    So as SkidMark brings up...

    IF the Federal building where federal employees routinely go about their duties IS NOT POSTED as required THEN one carrying a firearm within the building CANNOT be convicted UNLESS the individidual has been given actual notice...

    So, if the building isn't post and they don't give you "actual notice" then you are good to go!---- IF THE LEGAL SYSTEM ACTUALLY WORKS THE WAY IT IS SUPPOSED TO WORK!!!!!!!!

    Again, Caps are for emphasis!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegassteve View Post
    Cite please.
    The interior of a federal building (this includes any rest stops, information centers, and concession stands bearing the National Park Service logo) falls under Title 18, Sec 930 “Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities” ( http://tinyurl.com/yg2zhwb )
    However, Title 18, Sec 930 does stipulate the following
    (h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each
    public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility.

    So there shouldn’t be any confusion as restricted buildings MUST BY LAW be “posted conspicuously” that weapons are not permitted. If it’s not posted, it’s not restricted (Unless you have been notified by an authorized person and asked to leave because then you've had "actual notice" under subsection H...<sigh>).

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