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Thread: Lock Box legal for transport?

  1. #1
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    Lock Box legal for transport?

    I have been thinking, would a lock box attached to the vehicle be legal for transport under our current regulations?

    There is a product called Secure Console or something like that (custom made for my vehicle by Console Vault http://www.consolevault.us/index.php) which turns a center console into a lock box. They are vehicle specific to match the center console. The promotional pics I have seen even show handguns inside; i.e. it is a container designed for a firearm.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran Flipper's Avatar
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    See what the DNR gun gods say here

    http://www.du-ha.com/legal.htm
    When in danger you can dial 911 and hope for the police to arrive a few minutes later armed with guns.
    Why do police carry guns?

    The Joyce Foundation funded firearm control empire:
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    They are going to need to update that website in 38 days when Iowa starts recognizes all permits issued by all states.

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    I use a GunVault MicroVault. However, I place my XD45 in an 8" cabelas pistol rug first. All fits snuggly. When we get legal issues resolved hopefully I won't need the pistol rug.

  5. #5
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Nope.

    What you've described would be considered having a concealed weapon, since it's not readily apparent to someone outside the vehicle. (Check out 941.23)

    A lock box like is used to hold money isn't legal under WI law, and maybe federal too (I'm not on my computer, or might be able to find the reference), because the container has to be made for the purpose of holding a gun. Whether you could add something to it, modify it in some way to meet that requirement I don't know. IANAL

    That being said, I don't see why it wouldn't work.
    After all, why would the police be getting into your locked box or center console in the first place? Isn't that part of why it's locked, keeping out people who have no business being there?

    You don't say anything to them about a gun being there, it's just another lock box.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 11-24-2010 at 09:59 PM.
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  6. #6
    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    It is a locked box. How would they ever know what was in it without a search warrant (probable cause) or an illegal search (evidence disallowed). I'll assume the owner does not allow a search or convey what the contents of the secured box is.

    What's in the locked box? "Papers, and effects, secured against unreasonable searches and seizures".

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    Regular Member GlockRDH's Avatar
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    "...made for the purpose of holding a gun.." What the heck does that mean? Does that mean that it was marketed that way? Or designed by a gun manufacturer and only sold at Cabellas next to the holsters etc? Or that it was advertised in a gun magazine? This statement seems almost unenforcable...WAY to subjective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GlockRDH View Post
    "...made for the purpose of holding a gun.." What the heck does that mean? Does that mean that it was marketed that way? Or designed by a gun manufacturer and only sold at Cabellas next to the holsters etc? Or that it was advertised in a gun magazine? This statement seems almost unenforcable...WAY to subjective.
    So, I have a "tool bag" that has a small label/tag and says "gun". I made the tool bag into a gun bag.

    My "guess" is that putting a gun into a plastic or paper bag would not pass muster. But you're right, WAY to subjective.

  9. #9
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    it is vague

    Technically, the heavy nylon case I made is legal, but the commercially made CD case with a zipper (& added lock) isn't. Unless maybe my adding the lock altered it enough? The CD case is just the right size, and looks right, so passed the most rigorous inspection police have yet given it.
    Quote Originally Posted by MLK, Jr
    The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort & convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge & controversy.
    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie
    Citizenship is a verb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 27:12
    A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions.
    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 31:17
    She dresses herself with strength and makes her arms strong.

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    A locked box may not may not meet the definition of: "explicitly designed for use with a firearm", depending on what's its design is. I happen to have a secure-it which is tethered to the structure for securing the gun when in those pesky GFZ's. This box is designed for a firearm. Even if its not specifically designed for a firearm, you could use it with good conscience, because unless it is illegal to have a locked box in your car (its not), then you don't have to answer any questions about what is inside. If you want to say something, say "personal property". The police cannot look inside unless you let them, or unless they have search warrant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GlockRDH View Post
    "...made for the purpose of holding a gun.."
    That's my point about the Console Vault - it is marketed as a place to store your gun in your car. From the website linked above: "Perfect for safely and securely transporting handguns, securing your wallet, I pod, GPS, jewelry or other personal valuables, while traveling. "

    This case is specifically designed for transporting a firearm.

    Hopefully within a few months, this will all be a mute point anywho...

  12. #12
    Regular Member GlockRDH's Avatar
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    ...thats my contention...I dont believe that the DNR has 'tested and approved' ANY particular lock boxes...

  13. #13
    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    Since there is no defined authority to certify the lock box as designed for the gun, take on the responsibility yourself.
    After careful inspection declare the box acceptable for firearms then put you approval sticker on the inside. "Approved by inspector .45".

  14. #14
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockman View Post
    After careful inspection declare the box acceptable for firearms then put your approval sticker on the inside.
    "Approved by inspector .45".
    ::LOL::
    I like the way you think.
    Quote Originally Posted by MLK, Jr
    The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort & convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge & controversy.
    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie
    Citizenship is a verb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 27:12
    A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions.
    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 31:17
    She dresses herself with strength and makes her arms strong.

  15. #15
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    Here is where the problem lies, and how to get around that problem.

    A gun needs to be unloaded and in a case before being placed inside the vehicle. If the gun does not meet both of those conditions before being in or on a vehicle, it is against WI laws (DNR laws)
    So if that pistol is put into a "Pistol-Sock" before being placed in the locked case, you should be legal.
    And when removing it, you and the gun need to be completely out of the car before removing it from that gun-sock and loading it

  16. #16
    McX
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    i use a standard plastic gun case, modified to be a rapid open case, for vehicle transport.

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    Can someone please explain why it is necessary to disguise a gun case as a CD case? I mean why go through all of the hassle of making a gun case out of a CD Case?
    IMHO, if you use a CD case you are disguising the gun and therefore concealing its identity. That opens you up for a concealment charge all of its own. Now that is just my opinion and I am not giving any legal advice, just making a point here.
    It is legal to have a cased firearm in your vehicle so why not just use a firearms case?

  18. #18
    McX
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    It is legal to have a cased firearm in your vehicle so why not just use a firearms case?

    the Tweet hath spoken. Modify it to be rapid open, and you'll be happy to have settled upon it.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Motofixxer's Avatar
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    A gun case using a CD case isn't a bad idea. It looks more average and normal if left sitting in your vehicle. Nowadays, I don't think CD's are very high on the theft list. So it's less likely to attract individuals with sticky fingers. Than would be a very obvious looking gun case.
    So what's this modified rapid open thing???
    Last edited by Motofixxer; 12-04-2010 at 01:09 PM.
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    knowingly disguising a gun case within reach is a crime

    rule 15 violation

    wheres the mod mod

  21. #21
    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Guy View Post
    knowingly disguising a gun case within reach is a crime

    rule 15 violation

    wheres the mod mod
    Really? Would you care to elaborate?
    A. Gold

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Guy View Post
    knowingly disguising a gun case within reach is a crime

    rule 15 violation

    wheres the mod mod
    167.31(1)(b)
    (b) "Encased" means enclosed in a case that is expressly made for the purpose of containing a firearm and that is completely zipped, snapped, buckled, tied or otherwise fastened with no part of the firearm exposed.

    ( http://www.lawserver.com/law/state/w...in_laws_167-31 )

    So I guess you are correct... Kinda... A cd case is not "expressly" made to contain a firearm... Or is it?
    Either way, the firearm would have to have a case, or you would not be able to remove it or place it in the box...

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tweety View Post
    Can someone please explain why it is necessary to disguise a gun case as a CD case? I mean why go through all of the hassle of making a gun case out of a CD Case?
    IMHO, if you use a CD case you are disguising the gun and therefore concealing its identity. That opens you up for a concealment charge all of its own. Now that is just my opinion and I am not giving any legal advice, just making a point here.
    It is legal to have a cased firearm in your vehicle so why not just use a firearms case?
    A 941.23 charge "The elements for a violation of
    s. 941.23 are: 1) a dangerous weapon is on the defendantís person or within reach;
    2) the defendant is aware of the weaponís presence; and 3) the weapon is hidden."
    ( http://legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/Stat0941.pdf )
    So even by putting the wapon in a case, "the weapon is hidden"... Also, "within reach" is anywhere in the passenger area... A weapon in a suv is considered "within reach" even if the weapon is in the hatch... (Because you do not have to exit the vehicle to "reach" it) Also, it would be hidden laying on the floor of the hatch area. So now what? I'll find Dougs video if I can...

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    I firmly believe and it is MHO that if for some reason the police search your vehicle and find a fiream hidden inside a CD case you will be charged with CCW. I MHO I believe they will say you were trying to hide the firearm in the CD case rather than just encase it.

    By placing the firearm in a CD case you are attempting to disguise the firearm and therefore making it indiscernible from anyone other than yourself that the case in fact holds a firearm instead of CD's. Of course that is just my thought on the matter and you can take it or leave it.

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