Shotgun
Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Really? Would you care to elaborate?
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Lock Box legal for transport?
- Thread starter Brendon .45
- Start date
Really? Would you care to elaborate?
167.31(1)(b)
(b) "Encased" means enclosed in a case that is expressly made for the purpose of containing a firearm and that is completely zipped, snapped, buckled, tied or otherwise fastened with no part of the firearm exposed.
( http://www.lawserver.com/law/state/wisconsin/wi-laws/wisconsin_laws_167-31 )
So I guess you are correct... Kinda... A cd case is not "expressly" made to contain a firearm... Or is it?
Either way, the firearm would have to have a case, or you would not be able to remove it or place it in the box...
A 941.23 charge "The elements for a violation of
s. 941.23 are: 1) a dangerous weapon is on the defendant’s person or within reach;
2) the defendant is aware of the weapon’s presence; and 3) the weapon is hidden."
( http://legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/Stat0941.pdf )
So even by putting the wapon in a case, "the weapon is hidden"... Also, "within reach" is anywhere in the passenger area... A weapon in a suv is considered "within reach" even if the weapon is in the hatch... (Because you do not have to exit the vehicle to "reach" it) Also, it would be hidden laying on the floor of the hatch area. So now what? I'll find Dougs video if I can...
Tweety
Banned
I firmly believe and it is MHO that if for some reason the police search your vehicle and find a fiream hidden inside a CD case you will be charged with CCW. I MHO I believe they will say you were trying to hide the firearm in the CD case rather than just encase it.
By placing the firearm in a CD case you are attempting to disguise the firearm and therefore making it indiscernible from anyone other than yourself that the case in fact holds a firearm instead of CD's. Of course that is just my thought on the matter and you can take it or leave it.
By placing the firearm in a CD case you are attempting to disguise the firearm and therefore making it indiscernible from anyone other than yourself that the case in fact holds a firearm instead of CD's. Of course that is just my thought on the matter and you can take it or leave it.
Nutczak
Regular Member
Here is the way "I" understand the laws, once the gun is in a case that is specifically made to house a firearm, and it is unloaded, it does not matter what else you may put it in.
So If I am riding my bicycle, and I have my XDm in it's factory hard case, I can put that properly encased firearm into my backpack for transport, I believe it to be the same for a motor vehicle.
I believe the intent of the law was to try and keep a readily accessible, but disguised firearm out of a vehicle, you got to remember that most of the transportation laws in WI come from the DNR to make poaching charges stick easier.
Yes I know the law may not mean to someone what I believe it means, but I would still fight my point in court.
They just simply cannot deny any and all transportation of firearms, but the way the law is worded, that is what they have effectively done. Can anyone cite to a case where a legal hunter was found guilty for transporting his unloaded firearm in a a proper case?
I didn't think so!
So using my logic, if a pistol is in a gun-sock, before being placed into a CD case, you should fare well, but if it is just in a CD case, there may be some issues in court because a CD case does not meet "Specifically made to house a firearm"
Tweety
Banned
+1!
Flipper
Campaign Veteran
Your feelings(recognizing that its not legal advice) about a pistol pack such this as meeting Wisconsin fully enclosed gun case laws. Its made specifically for enclosing a gun, but doesn't say "gun" on it. A problem I see is that the description says "allows concealment." Ouch..but what "fully enclosed case" doesn't conceal a gun?
http://www.gunaccessories.com/Bagmaster/PistolPacks.asp
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GlockRDH
Regular Member
"Specifically made to house a firearm"
as determined by WHO?? The DNR? The manufacturer of the 'enclosure'....just because you bought the box at Walmart, in the hunting dept, and it has a the pic of a hand gun on it...does that MEAN it was "Specifically made to house a firearm" ...or was it meant for something else and remarketed as such? How about tupperware? That wasnt made specifically for that purpose..but it works just fine! What if Plano (plastic manufacturer) remarketed the same tupperware container with pic of a hand gun on it? How would that figure into this? See where im going with this? Its an arguably very vague area.
as determined by WHO?? The DNR? The manufacturer of the 'enclosure'....just because you bought the box at Walmart, in the hunting dept, and it has a the pic of a hand gun on it...does that MEAN it was "Specifically made to house a firearm" ...or was it meant for something else and remarketed as such? How about tupperware? That wasnt made specifically for that purpose..but it works just fine! What if Plano (plastic manufacturer) remarketed the same tupperware container with pic of a hand gun on it? How would that figure into this? See where im going with this? Its an arguably very vague area.
Interceptor_Knight
Regular Member
If it has a picture of a firearm on it then you are covered. If you modify a tupperware container to house a firearm you are covered. This is in accordance with the DNRs Administrative enforcement policy. "Home made" cases are legal.
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Flipper
Campaign Veteran
My feeling also. Attaching this patch
http://cgi.ebay.com/S-W-SMITH-WESSO...418174?pt=Vintage_Hunting&hash=item3352f98c3e
should give me a soft belt carry case equivalent of a factory hand carry hard case as far as identification, more so because it will have a picture of a gun on it.
http://www.gunsamerica.com/96838965...ctory_Sm_Med_Handguns_Brand_New_2008_Prod.htm
Nutczak
Regular Member
I do not see adding a picture of a gun on a case as helping anything except the criminal who sees it on your seat and decides to break your window and steal it. Or the cop that has now gained probable cause for a search. I like my transport cases to be as nondescript as possible. yes it is hard to mistake a rifle case made for a scoped rifle, or a shotgun case. But my handgun cases do not stand out or contrast against other items typically found in a mans truck.
Lets say you place your firearm in, and transport it in a violin case, I could see a person being found guilty of Illegal transportation real easily the way the law is currently written. But if that gun is in a "gun-Sock" before being placed into that violin case, it fits the way the law is written.
A CD case, Since it could be easily modified to house a gun, I see that case able to be won in court, But only if the case was modified to "Specifically House a Gun" like maybe removing the CD sleeves. But just slipping a gun into an otherwise stock CD case could easily be considered illegal concealment by many courts.
This is exactly what is so screwed up in WI law. There are no definitions of anything to determine what is legal or illegal. it is all left up to the cop or the judge. So what is commonly perceived legal practice in one area, may be a convictable offense in other areas of the state. Wasn't that same SNAFU the exact reason for the preemption law??
Transporting a newly purchased gun home from the store is fully legal and acceptable if it is in it's factory cardboard box, But if you discard that original box, and use one that was designed to hold fireplace tools, you are now illegal. Unless you glued in foam stays, padding, or some other interior modification made to specifically house a gun.
Lets say you place your firearm in, and transport it in a violin case, I could see a person being found guilty of Illegal transportation real easily the way the law is currently written. But if that gun is in a "gun-Sock" before being placed into that violin case, it fits the way the law is written.
A CD case, Since it could be easily modified to house a gun, I see that case able to be won in court, But only if the case was modified to "Specifically House a Gun" like maybe removing the CD sleeves. But just slipping a gun into an otherwise stock CD case could easily be considered illegal concealment by many courts.
This is exactly what is so screwed up in WI law. There are no definitions of anything to determine what is legal or illegal. it is all left up to the cop or the judge. So what is commonly perceived legal practice in one area, may be a convictable offense in other areas of the state. Wasn't that same SNAFU the exact reason for the preemption law??
Transporting a newly purchased gun home from the store is fully legal and acceptable if it is in it's factory cardboard box, But if you discard that original box, and use one that was designed to hold fireplace tools, you are now illegal. Unless you glued in foam stays, padding, or some other interior modification made to specifically house a gun.