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Thread: Father kills man after he kidnaps and allegedly molests his son

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    Father kills man after he kidnaps and allegedly molests his son


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    He was convicted (based on a nolo plea) as he should have been. The sentence was mitigated by the circumstances as it should have been. Justice was served and a child predator will molest no one else.

    It is a shame that this father had to deserve a conviction to feel like there was justice for his son. Those who molest the most innocent among us should be separated from society forever
    Last edited by eye95; 11-26-2010 at 10:41 AM.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Good!!!! I am glad he got off with no prison time. What a father won't do for his children....

    The movie Taken is a good movie too.
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    Regular Member OldCurlyWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    He was convicted (based on a nolo plea) as he should have been. The sentence was mitigated by the circumstances as it should have been. Justice was served and a child predator will molest no one else.

    It is a shame that this father had to deserve a conviction to feel like there was justice for his son. Those who molest the most innocent among us should be separated from society forever
    Under our current "inappropriate" laws you are correct. But, having a "given" that the father was correct in believing this particular person to have molested his child, all he should have gotten from the community at large was a pat on the back, a thank you and a substantial reward.

    Proven child predators deserve ZERO mercy.
    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.

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    Really? You think we'd be better having a society where we kill people whom we suspect of crimes, without process or procedure? I've known anarchists who think that is the thing, but it's not really the thing to do in a place where we have the rule of law and a court system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldCurlyWolf View Post
    Under our current "inappropriate" laws you are correct. But, having a "given" that the father was correct in believing this particular person to have molested his child, all he should have gotten from the community at large was a pat on the back, a thank you and a substantial reward.

    Proven child predators deserve ZERO mercy.
    Agreed, what makes my blood boil almost as much as these scum bags is Judges giving these KNOWN molesters light sentience and X number of chances to do it again and again. They need to be locked up for good and or receive a death penalty. if I was one of those twelve jurors I would have voted the same way except no probation nothing. Give that man an award.
    Last edited by zack991; 12-01-2010 at 03:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonameisgood View Post
    Really? You think we'd be better having a society where we kill people whom we suspect of crimes, without process or procedure? I've known anarchists who think that is the thing, but it's not really the thing to do in a place where we have the rule of law and a court system.
    +1. I'm all for locking up or executing child molesters, but by means of due process of law. Unchecked vigilantism leads to anarchy and other breakdowns of society. As it was, the father got off with a slap on the wrist, but with a leash the law can tug if he steps outside the law any time in the next five years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldCurlyWolf View Post
    Under our current "inappropriate" laws you are correct. But, having a "given" that the father was correct in believing this particular person to have molested his child, all he should have gotten from the community at large was a pat on the back, a thank you and a substantial reward.

    Proven child predators deserve ZERO mercy.
    I disagree. We are a nation of laws and not of men. We should use our laws to impart justice. Vigilantism is intolerable. In this case, the vigilantism was properly directed. There is not guarantee it always will be, which is why justice should be left in the hands of those entrusted with due process.

    What the father did was revenge, not justice. It is and should be a crime. Properly, he was convicted. Also properly, the punishment was largely mitigated.

    It still is a shame.

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    Regular Member OldCurlyWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I disagree. We are a nation of laws and not of men. We should use our laws to impart justice. Vigilantism is intolerable. In this case, the vigilantism was properly directed. There is not guarantee it always will be, which is why justice should be left in the hands of those entrusted with due process.

    What the father did was revenge, not justice. It is and should be a crime. Properly, he was convicted. Also properly, the punishment was largely mitigated.

    It still is a shame.
    It seems that I did not state my position in such a manner that all would understand.

    !. the proof of child molestation (or any other such heinous crime) must be as iron clad as possible in this imperfect world.

    2. if such proof exists and is known to the parent, and they beat the police to the molester, good for them. No trial is needed, for either party.

    3. If you are wrong, you are treated the same as any other criminal. You better be correct in ALL assumptions.

    4. What some incorrectly call vigilantism is more properly called vengeance and justice, when properly applied.

    5. Legal or illegal does not equate to correct, right, moral, etc. Many laws are simply idiotic.

    6. Expecting justice from our laws or the laws of any nation on earth is a fool's errand. "It ain't gonna happen." The only justice that happens is when laws are not involved. You can obtain justice on a small village level, maybe, but no where else in the world is it likely. Under most systems of laws it is not even an objective.
    Last edited by OldCurlyWolf; 12-02-2010 at 12:14 AM.
    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.

    Politicians should serve two terms, one in office and one in prison.(borrowed from RioKid)

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldCurlyWolf View Post
    It seems that I did not state my position in such a manner that all would understand.

    !. the proof of child molestation (or any other such heinous crime) must be as iron clad as possible in this imperfect world.

    2. if such proof exists and is known to the parent, and they beat the police to the molester, good for them. No trial is needed, for either party.

    3. If you are wrong, you are treated the same as any other criminal. You better be correct in ALL assumptions.

    4. What some incorrectly call vigilantism is more properly called vengeance and justice, when properly applied.

    5. Legal or illegal does not equate to correct, right, moral, etc. Many laws are simply idiotic.

    6. Expecting justice from our laws or the laws of any nation on earth is a fool's errand. "It ain't gonna happen." The only justice that happens is when laws are not involved. You can obtain justice on a small village level, maybe, but no where else in the world is it likely. Under most systems of laws it is not even an objective.
    After your explanation, I realize that I read and understood your post perfectly. I disagree. Vehemently.

    Vigilantism is dangerous. It is and should be illegal. We are a nation of laws and not of men.

    Moving on.

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    Regular Member ChiangShih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I disagree. We are a nation of laws and not of men. We should use our laws to impart justice. Vigilantism is intolerable. In this case, the vigilantism was properly directed. There is not guarantee it always will be, which is why justice should be left in the hands of those entrusted with due process.

    What the father did was revenge, not justice. It is and should be a crime. Properly, he was convicted. Also properly, the punishment was largely mitigated.

    It still is a shame.
    Allow me to ask a question to probe your train of thought. Where you draw the line if you will.

    1. You come home from work, you encounter a man in your hallway, he has just raped your wife or child. You are armed. Do you shoot him or detain him for the police.

    2. You come home from work, you catch a man in the act of raping your wife or child. Do you shoot him or order him to stop at gun point and wait for police?


    There are laws above that of man and this country. Laws of morality and god. I'd kill him without hesitation. I would kill him on the court bench if I had the chance and I would spare no brutality.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    After your explanation, I realize that I read and understood your post perfectly. I disagree. Vehemently.

    Vigilantism is dangerous. It is and should be illegal. We are a nation of laws and not of men.

    Moving on.
    If either one of my children were molested, and there innocence taken away, I would probably lose all rational and logical thought at that point. I would hope and pray that I would let the justice system do it's job. But I don't think that would be the case. Just thinking about it enrages me.
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    We have become so bogged down by laws, ordinances, precedents, court opinions, and mamby pamby political correct crap that we have lost sight of what laws are supposed to protect. JUSTICE. There isn't a father here who can honestly say that if it had been your child you would not have done the same.Not only the terror his parents felt while he was missing, that child is scarred for life and it will take his family decades to have a single day when that boy isn't afraid or even get a good night's sleep. I say justice served. You prey on a child, you die for it. I only think this scum died to quick. He deserved to suffer.
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    This is really old.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NRAMARINE View Post
    We have become so bogged down by laws, ordinances, precedents, court opinions, and mamby pamby political correct crap that we have lost sight of what laws are supposed to protect. JUSTICE. There isn't a father here who can honestly say that if it had been your child you would not have done the same.Not only the terror his parents felt while he was missing, that child is scarred for life and it will take his family decades to have a single day when that boy isn't afraid or even get a good night's sleep. I say justice served. You prey on a child, you die for it. I only think this scum died to quick. He deserved to suffer.
    That many would do it (not all, and I couldn't speak for myself until I ever found myself in that situation) is no reason that vigilantism should not be punishable under the law.

    It should be.

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    I am not a parent so I can't speak from experience. To harm a child in any way, but especially in that way is abhorent to me. Whether it is against the law or not, I can understand why one would want to kill the criminal. At the same time, I agree with eye, we are a country of laws, not a country of vigilantes. SCOTUS has upheld stiffer sentences for crimes committed when the criminal is armed. We are making progress. I don't agree with taking the law into your own hands unless it is self defense or defense of another. If you need and example of vigilantism gone wrong, read or see the movie, The Oxbow Incident.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiangShih View Post
    Allow me to ask a question to probe your train of thought. Where you draw the line if you will.

    1. You come home from work, you encounter a man in your hallway, he has just raped your wife or child. You are armed. Do you shoot him or detain him for the police.

    2. You come home from work, you catch a man in the act of raping your wife or child. Do you shoot him or order him to stop at gun point and wait for police?


    There are laws above that of man and this country. Laws of morality and god. I'd kill him without hesitation. I would kill him on the court bench if I had the chance and I would spare no brutality.
    I am can believe 99.9% of the people on here will say its wrong to take the law in your own hands, but if this ever (god forbid) happens to them I am positive that view will change in an instant. Yes we have a "justice" system but it seems to me an others to be more corrupt every day, way to many judges use it as a political bench instead of really punishing the criminals for rape, murder, theft and so on.
    Last edited by zack991; 12-02-2010 at 12:07 PM.

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    It is easier to justify holes in one's morals if he sees that same hole in most others'.

    Speak for yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    It is easier to justify holes in one's morals if he sees that same hole in most others'.

    Speak for yourself.
    No.. i have my morals but its easy to say and agree with your statement when there are not the extremes of emotions that a person faces when they run into a horrible mess like someone raping their family. This is what is commonly called a crime of passion. A crime committed under the influence of sudden or extreme passion. For instance, a man's attack on another person with a weapon after the attacker had raped a mans wife might be considered a crime committed in the heat of passion. More frequently, killing an adulterer or adulteress upon the sudden discovery of adultery is characterized as a crime committed in the heat of passion. Heat of passion is a defense to the mens rea, or intent element of murder, the rationale being that a person whose passions are suddenly provoked is incapable of premeditation.

    You would be one of the very few who know exactly how they will react if such a horrible act ever happens. No matter what a persons morals are no one can say for sure they will do the right thing. At least I know that I may not be able to stand by my morals if this ever happens to me. Only God can judge my true intent at that moment.
    Last edited by zack991; 12-02-2010 at 12:49 PM.

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    Regular Member ChiangShih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    It is easier to justify holes in one's morals if he sees that same hole in most others'.

    Speak for yourself.
    Are you implying killing the rapist of one's child is an immoral act?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiangShih View Post
    1. You come home from work, you encounter a man in your hallway, he has just raped your wife or child. You are armed. Do you shoot him or detain him for the police.

    2. You come home from work, you catch a man in the act of raping your wife or child. Do you shoot him or order him to stop at gun point and wait for police?
    In #1 above, you can't know that he just raped anyone (until his victim staggers out & tells you). You do, however, know that he's a stranger in your house. If he cooperates, get him on the ground & hold him for police. If he doesn't cooperate, and you fear he will seriously harm you, feel free to defend yourself. (If he's a guest of your wife or child, they can tell you that & make apologies all around.)

    In #2, shoot the bastard & kick his carcass off your loved one, then call an ambulance for your family member.
    You've caught the criminal in the act of committing a forcible felony, which in most areas is seen as legally equal to homicide in seriousness. ("Likely to cause death or serious bodily harm" is a common phrase in the law.) You are able to "stand in their shoes" with regards to your reaction & self-defense.
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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    I don't agree with taking the law into your own hands unless it is self defense or defense of another.
    You (and others here) are making the same mistake many anti-self-defense / anti-gun people do.
    When we defend ourselves (or an innocent other) we are NOT "taking the law into our own hands".
    We are acting completely within the law.

    Laws specifically mention self-defense as a permitted action (an affirmative defense to a charge of homicide or assault or whatever), and even if self-defense weren't mentioned it would be allowed because it's not prohibited.

    However... AFAIK, the man in the OP was not acting in self-defense, he was acting out of revenge. That's legally wrong, but completely understandable. Apparently his peers thought so too, since he "only" has probation.
    Quote Originally Posted by MLK, Jr
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 27:12
    A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions.
    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
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    The subject father took the law into his own hands. He was defending no one. He was exacting revenge on a man already in custody as a result of his crime.

    While self-defense is not taking the law into your own hands, revenge is.

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    There is not a single doubt in my mind that I'll be in jail if this ever happened to one of my daughters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gsx1138 View Post
    There is not a single doubt in my mind that I'll be in jail if this ever happened to one of my daughters.
    I have doubt. I tend to be rational. One of the rational questions I would ask would be, "What would be best for my child?" Likely, that would not be my being in jail. Especially if the perp is already in custody for the crime.

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