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Thread: Examiner.com - Florida preemption statute: refused and abused

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    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Examiner.com - Florida preemption statute: refused and abused


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    Regular Member Mas49.56's Avatar
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    Yup, I went hiking in Tarkiln state park and was met with this sign at the entrance. "firearms and fire works prohibited county(escambia) ordinance 94-7. Screw them I CCed anyway. They have a little fishing pier there. They would probably freakout and arrest an OC fisherman.

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    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mas49.56 View Post
    Yup, I went hiking in Tarkiln state park and was met with this sign at the entrance. "firearms and fire works prohibited county(escambia) ordinance 94-7. Screw them I CCed anyway. They have a little fishing pier there. They would probably freakout and arrest an OC fisherman.
    Intersting. First, I assume you refer to Tarkiln Bayou Preserve State Park. This park is a STATE park and is not subject to Escambia County ordinances. Lawful concealed carry is perfectly legal in accordance with statute, and if you look at this link,

    http://www.floridastateparks.org/thingstoknow/rules.cfm

    you'll find fireworks are prohibited but there is no mention of firearms.

    Have you considered writing Escambia County to inquire as to their unlawful ordinance and the sign at a state park?
    Last edited by Rich7553; 12-05-2010 at 11:10 AM.

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    Regular Member sFe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich7553 View Post
    Intersting. First, I assume you refer to Tarkiln Bayou Preserve State Park. This park is a STATE park and is not subject to Escambia County ordinances. Lawful concealed carry is perfectly legal in accordance with statute, and if you look at this link,

    http://www.floridastateparks.org/thingstoknow/rules.cfm

    you'll find fireworks are prohibited but there is no mention of firearms.

    Have you considered writing Escambia County to inquire as to their unlawful ordinance and the sign at a state park?
    All the state park rules link to the same page. I don't see anything about firearms also, except for the sign on the front page..

    For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. — Carl Sagan

    When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours - Stephen Roberts

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    Regular Member Mas49.56's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich7553 View Post
    Intersting. First, I assume you refer to Tarkiln Bayou Preserve State Park. This park is a STATE park and is not subject to Escambia County ordinances. Lawful concealed carry is perfectly legal in accordance with statute, and if you look at this link,

    http://www.floridastateparks.org/thingstoknow/rules.cfm

    you'll find fireworks are prohibited but there is no mention of firearms.

    Have you considered writing Escambia County to inquire as to their unlawful ordinance and the sign at a state park?
    I know the sign is unenforceable and will call the park service about it when I get time. The escambia county commissioners "open meetings" have banned the public from speaking last I heard. I need to find out more about that little gem.

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    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mas49.56 View Post
    I know the sign is unenforceable and will call the park service about it when I get time. The escambia county commissioners "open meetings" have banned the public from speaking last I heard. I need to find out more about that little gem.
    Public banned from speaking at open meetings? Wow!

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    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sFe View Post
    All the state park rules link to the same page. I don't see anything about firearms also, except for the sign on the front page..

    Incredible. When I posted the link, I never looked at the sign on that page! Well, suffice it to say that it is perfectly legal to carry in a state park, and any signs to the contrary should be pointed out to the rangers and the Florida Division of Recreation and Parks.

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    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    I fired off a comment on the state parks comments page about Tarkiln. I'll let you know what I find out.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Legally, they're only "asking" that you follow their rules. They could lump "no making out with your sweetie" in there as well but they could only prosecute for what is actually an infraction of the law.

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    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Legally, they're only "asking" that you follow their rules. They could lump "no making out with your sweetie" in there as well but they could only prosecute for what is actually an infraction of the law.
    Which "they" are you talking about?

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    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Tarkiln Bayou State Park sign/policy

    I sent a complaint form on the state parks website with regards to both the sign observed at Tarkiln Bayou Preserve State Park and about the photo used on the state parks rules webpage that states firarms are prohibted:

    I am a member of a web based forum devoted to Florida firearms owners and carriers. Recently, a member advised the forum that he had visited Tarkiln Bayou Preserve State Park and was greeted by a sign that not only stated firearms were prohibited, but quoted an Escambia County ordinance as the source. First, I am of the understanding that properly licensed persons can indeed carry their concealed firearms in all state parks. Second, even if that were not true, why would a county ordinance be applicable in a state park. Third, Escambia County's ordinance is null and void in accordance with §790.33 Florida Statutes. I would request that in order not to confuse guests, that this sign be either removed or modified to reflect that firearms are not prohibited in the park. Ironically, on your rules webpage (http://www.floridastateparks.org/thingstoknow/rules.cfm), the sign shown for Bald Point State Park actually shows the incorrect firearms prohibition as well! Perhaps a new graphic for the web page is in order. Thank you for your attention to this matter.
    I received the following reply today.

    Thank you for taking the time to share your comments about the sign at Tarkiln Bayou Preserve and the inaccurate information shown on the website. An email complaint was received October 21, 2010 about the sign that you are referencing at Tarkiln Bayou. Assistant Park Manager Rick Argo responded to the complaint with the following information:

    “Thank you for contacting us to clarify the rules and regulations for the park. If your primary question is whether or not you can lawfully carry a concealed weapon while on park property, the answer is yes, as long as you have the permit in your possession. (Reference: http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/index.html)

    Regarding the rule as posted on the sign, Florida State Parks operate under Florida Administrative Code 62D “OPERATION OF DIVISION RECREATION AREAS AND FACILITIES” which states:

    Section 62D-2.014 Activities and Recreation rule 10:
    Hunting and Firearms. Hunting, trapping or the pursuit of wildlife is prohibited on all state park property, except in Reserves, as authorized by the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. Weapons shall at all times be in possession of a responsible party or properly secured within or to a vehicle or temporary housing, which shall include motor homes, travel trailers, recreational vehicles, campers, tents, or other enclosed structures, while in state parks. Properly secured means the weapon shall be locked away and not accessible to minors, and if in a tent means the weapon shall be secured in a locked container. No person shall use or openly display in any state park weapons such as firearms of any type, air rifles, spring guns, cross bows, bows and arrows, gigs (except in areas where gigs may be legally used for saltwater fishing), sling shots, electronic weapons, devices which fire a dart or projectile, or any other forms of weapons or trapping devices potentially dangerous to wildlife or human safety except when such weapons or traps are used for resource management purposes as authorized in this subsection. Shooting weapons into park areas from beyond park boundaries is prohibited. The Division may authorize the control of nuisance animals and may remove all nuisance or exotic animals from parks by trapping and other necessary means for park resource management purposes. Such authorization shall be in the form of a letter of authorization, license, permit, or contract negotiated by the parties or made pursuant to an advertised bid by the Division. Authorization may be obtained in the same manner as stated in subsection 62D-2.013(7), F.A.C., herein.
    That said, there was a recent addition/change to Florida Statue section 790.25(3)(h) which now states that persons are allowed to lawfully display firearms while they are engaged in fishing, or camping or going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition.

    Park visitors must properly store firearms while not engaged in the above activities.

    If you have any additional questions, I will do my best to answer them or refer you to someone who can.”

    The timing of your email is impeccable as I will be at Tarkiln Bayou tomorrow and will personally check to insure that the “Firearms Prohibited” wording on all park signs has been removed. As for any signage associated with an Escambia County ordinance that would prohibit lawful carrying of a firearm on park property, I am not aware of it. I have also looked at the Florida State Parks website link to the rules section that you provided. This is an old picture and I have emailed the person in charge of updating the website to have it replaced.

    I apologize for the length of this email but I wanted to make sure that I fully addressed your comments. If I can be of any other assistant please let me know.

    Tony Tindell
    Assistant Bureau Chief
    Florida Division of Recreation & Parks
    Department of Environmental Protection
    4620 State Park Lane
    Ta-da!

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    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    You didn't even ask about open carry while fishing but the Assistant Park Manager did bring up 790.25(3)(h)and states that open carry while fishing and camping there is OK.
    Last edited by StogieC; 12-09-2010 at 08:59 AM.

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    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    You didn't even ask about open carry while fishing but the Assistant Park Manager did bring up 790.25(3)(h)and states that open carry while fishing and camping there is OK.
    Don't tell anyone, but I subconsciously willed him to say it!

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    Regular Member Mas49.56's Avatar
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    Wow Rich! Good job man. Thanks for posting the reply. I'm taking my wife over to the coach purse outlet store to let her pick out the one she wants for Christmas. Tarkiln is on the way, so I'll swing by the park and see if they changed it this weekend.

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    Regular Member Mas49.56's Avatar
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    Update,
    Well I drove by Tarkiln park today and they were true to their word. The word firearms was painted out of the things banned list.

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    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mas49.56 View Post
    Update,
    Well I drove by Tarkiln park today and they were true to their word. The word firearms was painted out of the things banned list.
    I love it when a plan comes together!

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