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Just got kicked out of Walmart

Sam

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2010
Messages
147
Location
Dallas, ,
I will be calling in the morning. I well tell them I have a complaint and witnessed a Police Officer doing illegal things and we will see how it goes from there. I hope I haven't waited too long. With moving into the new house and employees taking their vacation time before they lose it I have HAD to put this on the back burner. I didn't want to but working 7, 13-hour nights then driving kids to school and home didn't leave a lot of time. Any advice of what to say?

The police officer illegally searched and seized me.
He took my weapon off of my person and proceeded to unload it in the vicinity of hundreds of people.
Showed an ignorance of the law and then after researching he continued to lie about it.
The officer made it seem as if he thought letting criminals go with out punishment is OK because he is a "nice guy."

Anything missing, any preferred wording I should use? I'm going to look up statutes and cases later to support my complaint. If anyone has these readily available I'd appreciate it.

I am so drained...
 

Coniferous

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2009
Messages
24
Location
North Carolina
Subscribed - let us know what happens. Your situation (as much as of hassle as it is) is a learning experience for me. I guess I have just been lucky so far.
 

sultan62

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
1,311
Location
Clayton, NC
Start with "I want to file a complaint against one of your officers."

Make it a paper trail, don't just talk to someone verbally and hope they take care of it. In addition to establishing that paper trail, you will be able to say exactly what you want with the opportunity for revision.

In addition to the points you have made, I'd make the following:

Even if the manager complained to the officer, police have neither the duty nor the authority to enforce rules of private individuals/organizations. The officer should not have bothered you unless you were breaking a law. Of course, I would bring this up after addressing the GATTTOTP bs.

Also, please include the quote about police being the supreme authority/trumping all others where they are at.

I haven't ever had to file a complaint, or had a negative interaction with an officer, so I can't tell you anything from experience. I am willing to help though, feel free to pm me.
 

ixtow

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
5,038
Location
Suwannee County, FL
Sam seems to know what, Sultan has the how.

Don't just talk to someone, put it all in writing on a formal complaint. Put it in a Letter and send it to them by Registered Mail. FOIA anything you possibly can. There are some guys in the VA forums that have this down to a science. Some of them are actual Lawyers, to boot. Might post a 'help me' topic there.
 

Sam

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2010
Messages
147
Location
Dallas, ,
Sam seems to know what, Sultan has the how.

Don't just talk to someone, put it all in writing on a formal complaint. Put it in a Letter and send it to them by Registered Mail. FOIA anything you possibly can. There are some guys in the VA forums that have this down to a science. Some of them are actual Lawyers, to boot. Might post a 'help me' topic there.

How do I FOIA? I remember seeing a thread about it but searched and found nothing. Again I was very busy today and did not call. Just not enough hours in the day, especially when you work nights. I'm going to work on a letter and may still call tonight. It's not like they close right?
 

Sam

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2010
Messages
147
Location
Dallas, ,
I called the Gastonia City Police Department front desk number and a woman answered. I told her I'd like to file a complaint against an officer and she asked which one. Buying time to think I asked her what she said. I couldn't think of a reason not to tell her so I said Officer Woods. She transferred me to his Sergeant.
I hung up and called back when I heard the voice-mail start. I told the woman at the front desk she transferred me to someone who wasn't there. "I need to file a complaint and was just wondering how to do that."
She replied "You need to speak to his Sergeant."
"Which is?"
"Sergeant Johnson. No wait....[about 20 seconds of hold time] Sergeant Bess."
"and their number?"
The woman gave me her number and told me she wouldn't be in until Wednesday.
I left Sergeant Jessica Bess the following message.

"My name is [full name] and I have a complaint against Officer Woods. I witnessed some illegal behavior you might want to be aware of. Mainly I just want to know the procedure for filing a complaint. If you could please call me back at [my home number]. Again my name is Sam and my home number is..."

any help on those statutes? Like where does it say giving legal advice without a license is illegal? I am finding it harder and harder to focus. My Google is not at the top of it's game. God I'm tired.
 

Dreamer

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
5,360
Location
Grennsboro NC
North Carolina General Statutes
§ 84-4 Persons other than members of State Bar prohibited from practicing law



Except as otherwise permitted by law, it shall be unlawful for any person or association of persons, except active members of the Bar of the State of North Carolina admitted and licensed to practice as attorneys‑at‑law, to appear as attorney or counselor at law in any action or proceeding before any judicial body, including the North Carolina Industrial Commission, or the Utilities Commission; to maintain, conduct, or defend the same, except in his own behalf as a party thereto; or, by word, sign, letter, or advertisement, to hold out himself, or themselves, as competent or qualified to give legal advice or counsel, or to prepare legal documents, or as being engaged in advising or counseling in law or acting as attorney or counselor‑at‑law, or in furnishing the services of a lawyer or lawyers; and it shall be unlawful for any person or association of persons except active members of the Bar, for or without a fee or consideration, to give legal advice or counsel, perform for or furnish to another legal services, or to prepare directly or through another for another person, firm or corporation, any will or testamentary disposition, or instrument of trust, or to organize corporations or prepare for another person, firm or corporation, any other legal document. Provided, that nothing herein shall prohibit any person from drawing a will for another in an emergency wherein the imminence of death leaves insufficient time to have the same drawn and its execution supervised by a licensed attorney‑at‑law. The provisions of this section shall be in addition to and not in lieu of any other provisions of this Chapter. Provided, however, this section shall not apply to corporations authorized to practice law under the provisions of Chapter 55B of the General Statutes of North Carolina. (1931, c. 157, s. 1; 1937, c. 155, s. 1; 1955, c. 526, s. 1; 1969, c. 718, s. 19; 1981, c. 762, s. 3; 1995, c. 431, s. 4.)
 
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Sam

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2010
Messages
147
Location
Dallas, ,
Thank you for all the help everyone. Keep it coming!

I found a complaint person on the station's web site. I am emailing them when I get back from dropping off the kids at school. I am also working on a FOIA request.
 

rotorhead

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2010
Messages
862
Location
FL
Good deal, Sam. I hope it all works out for you.

Now prepare yourself for all the little harassment stops that happen "randomly", such as the ol' "sorry sir, it looked to me like your license plate was obstructed" (usually after they pass you from the opposite direction then whip the cruiser around to stop you...). Also, you'll probably get a good shake down for some obscure minor violation Officer Woods observes while he just so happened to be on patrol in your neighborhood.

Make sure your recorder has plenty of batteries, and travel with a witness when possible (wife, friend, etc.). Many of these incidents can turn very personal once you file a complaint. Protect yourself.
 

Sam

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2010
Messages
147
Location
Dallas, ,
Thank you for the advice, that has been on my mind.

I typed up an email and I'd like to share it with someone before sending it. It's long but I suppose the more eyes the better. Please let me know what you think. This is going to the Office of Professional Standards, a Sgt. Reid Brafford.

I have a complaint against an Officer Woods. I called the front desk at the Gastonia City Police Department and asked how I go about filing a complaint. She gave me the number to a Sergeant Bess with which I left a message. It was later I found your email address on the Gastonia City website.

I was harassed by Officer Woods on Friday November 26th, 2010 during the 2am and 3am hours at the 3000 East Franklin Boulevard Walmart. I was peaceably shopping whilst open carrying a holstered sidearm when Officer Woods approached me and asked me to place my weapon in my car. When I replied that I'd rather not because my car could get broken into Woods appeared to become upset with me.

Officer Woods proceeded to threaten me with "Going Armed to the Terror of the Public" and explained that open carry was illegal. I told officer Woods he was wrong and that I was not Going Armed to the Terror of the People (GAttTotP) and that open carrying is legal in North Carolina. Woods then had other officers check the front doors for signs and call the Magistrate. I explained to Woods I have been shopping at this Walmart for over two years, usually at 2am, always with my sidearm and am very familiar with the store's policy. Also I offered to leave only if a Walmart employee asked me to do so as I would only then be legally required to. Officer Woods claimed "It doesn't matter. We are the police here. We trump all wherever we are at."

When a woman officer told Woods that "Rush was too busy" Woods clearly got upset. I told him that this was a waste of my time, I was not doing anything illegal and I would like to be on my way. Woods told me "No, I gave you a chance to leave didn't I? You refused didn't you? So no. Come here, where's your button?"

At this point in time Officer Woods disarmed me and patted me down. He removed my car keys from my belt loop as well. I did not consent to a search and did not physically resist him. Officer Woods then did something very irresponsible. He proceeded to unload my firearm right there in the electronics department near dozens of people. He fumbled with it until he found the safety switch (pointing the weapon up towards the ceiling and straight ahead towards other shoppers) then fumbled a little whilst trying to reciprocate the slide.

Officer Woods ordered me to walk outside. He called in my driver's license number and my firearm's serial numbers. After the person he was on the phone with informed him I was not a criminal and my firearm was not stolen Wood's hung up the phone and simply stood there seemingly more upset. I asked what we were waiting for now and he replied "on a call from the judge."
"To see if I'm doing something illegal?" I asked.
"No to see if I can charge you."

Woods then walked away towards a nearby cruiser. After quite some time he returned and asked to talk to me to the side, away from who I assume is his partner (an Officer Martin) and my girlfriend who witnessed everything. Up until this point Wood's seemed very anxious and determined to arrest me. Wood's explained he checked the "blue book" and spoke to the magistrate. Both of them said he could arrest me for GAttTotP. I said "Really? That goes against everything I've ever read" Woods explained he "knew the law before I even saw you. I been in law enforcement 19 years. You can't wear your gun like that in here" pointing at the Walmart. "Now, I can arrest you. The judge said so." He then pulled out his cellphone and showed me his call history. I could not see what it said but told him I believed he called. He then claimed he wasn't trying to be a "prick" or he would arrest me but I was being given a chance because he is really a nice guy.

I went home and looked for some breaking news coverage about a change in the Law. There is none. I doubt the "Judge" or the "Blue Book" told Officer Wood's to arrest me because I feel he would have if he could. This leads me to believe he simply lied. If he didn't lie, is it common practice for Police Officers to allow criminals to break the law? Is it OK for an Officer to let law-breakers go because they are feeling nice?

Wood's then walked me to my car and proceeded to dispense legal advice without a license. He told me Open Carry was illegal, which is wrong, and that I needed to get a "CCW". I assume he meant a CHP (concealed handgun permit) as CCW is a crime, not a permit. Wood's explained I would get arrested if I carried openly again and the only way to avoid this was to conceal.

I would like a reply. Also, what is the complete process for filing a complaint? Please provide me with any forms I need to fill out.

Thank you,
[full name....]
 

chiefjason

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2009
Messages
1,025
Location
Hickory, NC, ,
Just for giggles I would ask what his probable cause for searching your firearms serial number was? There is no "official" exemption for firearms in the 4th amendment. So what made him believe it was stolen? The mere act of carrying it cannot be RAS. I know lots of LEO's do it as SOP, but that does not make it legal only normal.
 

sultan62

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
1,311
Location
Clayton, NC
I'd put a list of specific complaints at the end. The story is good, but they can pick and choose what they want out of it. An explicit list means explicit offenses.
 

Sam

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2010
Messages
147
Location
Dallas, ,
The police officer illegally searched and seized me.
He took my weapon off of my person and proceeded to unload it in the vicinity of hundreds of people.
Misquoted Law? Lied about Laws.?
Gave legal advice without a license.
The officer made it seem as if he thought letting criminals go with out punishment is OK because he is a "nice guy."

Anything missing? What would be the official wording for these complaints?

Off to nap now before work. I will be mailing my FOIA to Donna Lahser tomorrow when I can get to the post office.
 

sultan62

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
1,311
Location
Clayton, NC
Illegal search and seizure
Unsafe handling of a loaded firearm, including pointing it at people/sweeping people
Gave legal advice without bar approval
Tried to enforce personal opinion on private property as opposed to enforcing a law on public property.
Officer showed willingness to selectively enforce the law.

From http://www.guncite.com/court/state/25nc418.html:

State v. Huntley said:
But although a gun is an "unusual weapon," it is to be remembered that the carrying of a gun, per se, constitutes no (p.423)offence. For any lawful purpose--either of business or amusement--the citizen is at perfect liberty to carry his gun.
 

rotorhead

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2010
Messages
862
Location
FL
Sounds good so far Sam.

A couple things come to mind:

1. You might want to contact the Wal-Mart store and request any video they might have had of the incident, both inside and out. I'm not sure if they would give you access to it without a warrant, but it can't hurt to ask. Also, try to get a statement on Wal-Mart letterhead that states their policy concerning OC in that store and include it in the official complaint you register.

2. Include witness statements if possible. You mentioned that your girlfriend was present so you might ask her to write one up.

The more info you can present, the better. It may never go further than a registered complaint, but you can never have too much info on your side.
 

muccione

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
Messages
237
Location
Conover
Sounds good so far Sam.

A couple things come to mind:

1. You might want to contact the Wal-Mart store and request any video they might have had of the incident, both inside and out. I'm not sure if they would give you access to it without a warrant, but it can't hurt to ask.

2. Include witness statements if possible. You mentioned that your girlfriend was present so you might ask her to write one up.

The more info you can present, the better. It may never go further than a registered complaint, but you can never have too much info on your side.

X2
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
just a question

Sent the missus and the kids to the new house ... My gf is convinced are [our?] old pots and pans will explode on a glass top.

Are these really 2 different women, or are you just switching titles?
If they're different women, you might have more trouble than just dealing with idiot cops.
 
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